Federal shells versus others

[bugman702]

I have a chart from an older magazine that shows case capacities for 7 brands of shells. Federal shells have the thickest walls next to military ones. I bought 500, once fired Federal shells for $50.00 from a police sniper friend that I want to reload. Does anyone have recommendations on load reductions when using Federal in place of Remington or Winchester shells. My loads would be towards the lower velocities listed in reloading books. Examples: 150gr at 2600fps

[condor bravo]

It sounds like you are talking about once fired .30-06 Federal cases, my favorite, and at a good buy. From a loading manual you could start by splitting the difference between start and max loading (or lower yet). The thicker brass on the Feds provides tighter case neck tension than most other brands but some report, myself included, that primer pockets may tend to loosen sooner than other brands. That would depend on the loading and may not occur with reduced loads of course. I consider the heavier Feds to be preferable over most others, whether rifle or handgun.

[Jim243]

Here is an idea from Greek history. With an eye dropper fill both a Federal case with water and another brand such as Winchester the same way. Then put the water from each into a test tube and measure the VOLUME difference.

As an example if the volume of the Winchester case is 0.55 ml and the volume of the Federal case is 0.51 ml then the volume difference would be 7.28 %. A 10 % reduction of powder with the Federal case should give an approximately same pressure as the Winchester case.

Hope that helps.
Jim

http://www.amazon.com/Piece-Pyrex-Gl...rds=test+tubes

[Ifishsum]

Federal is my preference as well for my bolt rifles. You won't need to reduce a starting load found in a load book, if that is what you're asking. The difference isn't usually that great, but does matter if you had an upper end load you had worked up in one brand case then switched to another. In that instance I would back off a couple grains and work it back up like I did initially. But if you're starting an initial workup for a load that will use a Federal case, you don't need to change anything.

[F. Guffey]

I have Federal cases, I have military surplus cases, I have Federal military cases, I have Federal cases that are stamped TW.

I have a chart from an older magazine that shows case capacities for 7 brands of shells

I do not have that chart from that old magazine. I have heard old reloaders tell old hand me down stories about the old days. I quit taking them seriously. One story goes something like: Surplus brass is heavier therefore it is thicker. So? I measured. I did find my surplus military brass was heavier but I also found the case heads were thinner BUT! the case bodies were thicker. Then I measured R-P brass, the case heads were thicker by .060" but the case bodies were thinner. I decided there had to be a difference in the length of the powder column. That that just locked them up.

Caution: I am so a fan of Federal primers, and I do like the big trays Federal uses. And I heard the story about the Fred Rex driver that blew his tail gate off with those most powerful primers.

F. Guffey

[T. O'Heir]

Your magazine must be really old. Federal brass is well known for being softer than other brands. Case capacity has nothing to do with hardness though. And Federal being softer only means it doesn't last as long. No need to reduce the load for Federal brass
TW is Twin Cities Ordnance Plant, Minneapolis, MN. Federal operated it until 1946.

[Metal god]

When I'm starting a new I start at minimum charge regardless of what case I'm using . If I'm changing from one head stamp to another in a load I already have . I drop the charge 1.5gr and work back up . Maybe if you're using a large magnum case you drop the charge 2.5gr . I don't weigh my cases because after reading many things about case capacity . It seems there is no direct correlation to case weight and case volume . It just seems easier to drop the charge some and work back up then doing all those weighing and water test .

If you do the water test I've read you should use fully fire formed case to your chamber . Also be sure all case are trimmed to the same length . This give you a true volume value to the particular chamber the case will be fired in.

[oley55]

just for ghee-whiz info I recall reading something Dan Newberry wrote about brass choices in his explanation of his OCW (Optimal Charge Weight) load development process. As I recall he described Federal brass as undesirable for truely accurate loads.

just looked into my favorites and found the link to his site. As it turns out his mention of Federal brass was not in his discussion or instruction pages but rather a note for his personal pet loads.

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspa...pes/4533485759

The following load recipes have proven to work well in various rifles. Do not go directly to these charges, but work up from at least 5% below these levels.

This load data assumes standard Winchester brass. Adjust your powder charges DOWN by approximately-CENSORED-four tenths percent (.4%) for Lapua and Remington cases. I don't recommend any of these loads for Federal brass cases, as they are heavy and soft, and not really fit to reload in my opinion.

[FrankenMauser]

Don't overthink the perceived problem.

Just start low and work up.
Standard starting loads should be perfectly safe and sane in anything but lathe-turned cases.

---

Like some other members, and a few comments here...
I also don't consider most Federal rifle cases to be suitable for reloading. The brass doesn't play nicely, and the primer pockets are often toast after the first firing (factory load). I think the most loadings I've ever gotten with Federal rifle cases was three (factory, plus two reloads) with .270 Win and a mild load.
Some reloaders claim much better luck with Federal brass, but it hasn't worked out for me.
*.223 Rem / 5.56x45mm is an exception. It seems to be drawn with a different alloy than Federal's other cartridge cases.


Don't be afraid to use the brass, but be aware that you may encounter loose primer pockets, or other issues that result in having to throw away a portion of what you bought.

[RC20]

Like he said

[condor bravo]

I've never encountered a single once fired Fed '06 case with a loose primer pocket so I don't think the OP has any concerns about losing part of his investment, especially since he seems to be favoring mild loads. Yes loose pockets can show up after a few loadings, certainly more than just one or two, but when used with the Garand most of your cases have been lost before loose primer pockets become an issue. At 500 per $50 I would take all I could get even if I could get only two loads from them. Loose primer pockets with Fed '06 brass not hardly a concern. When encountered during reloading, I deprime and put the cases aside for metal recycling.

[FrankenMauser]

Loose primer pockets with Fed '06 brass not hardly a concern. When encountered during reloading, I deprime and put the cases aside for metal recycling.

Of all the Federal rifle cases that I've encountered with loose primers from just the factory firing, the biggest offenders (by a large margin) are .30-06 and .270 Win. If I shot .280 Remington, I'm sure it would be right there with them. There seems to be something about how Federal handles the ".30-06" family of cases, that makes them more likely to have case head expansion.


(I use quotation marks around .30-06 because .270 Win and .280 Win are both derivatives of .30-03, not .30-06. Like .35 Whelen, they require the longer neck of .30-03. So, they're more 'brothers' to .30-06 than offspring.)

[hartcreek]

I use mixed head stamp cases for everything but I separate my cases and then weigh the cases. Once I have established the head stamp that is the heaviest meaning the least volume I use those cases to work up my load using that minimum volume case as the standard. If I pick up some cases of a different head stamp which is unlikely I weigh them so I know if I am dealing with a lesser case volume or not. As long as the case volume is the same or larger then I am good to go with the load{s} that I have worked up.

[brasscollector]

I had some 243W Fed brass that I reloaded a couple times. Firing the 3rd reload (factory load+3 reloads so 4 loadings) on those cases made me think I had shot my barrel out, accuracy was heading downhill...FAST. Later, at home, I looked down my barrel and all appeared normal. I inspected the cases and found the inside of the necks looked like someone filed them out with a rasp . I've got Hornady brass that doesn't show any deterioration like that in a similar # of reloads. Perhaps the Federal brass produced 30+ years ago was better. The current production is only good for that one loading IMO.

[F. Guffey]

And no one measures the diameter of the case head before firing.

I have fired cases once and got all the use out of them that was possible.

F. Guffey

[DAVID NANCARROW]

I cannot speak directly to Federal 30-06 cases because I haven't used them, but I did use Federal 308 cases, and for the most part they did okay so long as I didn't firewall the load. When I did load at max charges, the cases lasted 3-4 firings before the primer pocket was noticably looser.

These days I am not much on once fired cases for my rifles, just a personal preference. With brand new cases I take careful measurements of the case head, length and such so I can keep track of them closely.

[cw308]

I like federal brass. Drop your load by 1.0 grains from listed load tables. I also reload on the light side. 308 cal using a 168 gr. Sierra HPBT bullet over 40.5 - 41.5 gr. over IMR 4064 200 yard zero very accurate with a .001 jump with .001 headspace. That's for a bolt action Remington 700 trued setup.

[FrankenMauser]

I fixed this for you, F. Guffey:

And few people measure the diameter of the case head before firing.

I have fired cases once and got all the use out of them that was possible.

A micrometer goes to the range with me about 10 times as often as I use a chronograph.

[F. Guffey]

I fixed this for you, F. Guffey:

FrankenMauser, it is always the primer pocket, never the flash hole, never the outside diameter of the case head. It is never the thickness of the case head, it is never 'case head-upset'.

F. Guffey

[Bucksnort1]

So, if Federal cases are slightly thicker, is there a concern about pressure like we've heard about 5.56 cases?

[cw308]

Full sizing your brass the round will fit your chamber, the inside of the case has less volume, so lower your listed charge by one grain & you'll be safe.

[Ifishsum]

So, if Federal cases are slightly thicker, is there a concern about pressure like we've heard about 5.56 cases?

Not unless you're at or near max IMO. I haven't found it makes a lot of difference in 5.56 either. I only consider it if I'm using different brass on an existing load that is already on the hot side.