Tell me about this Ithaca

[baddarryl]

Hi all. I stumbled on a Western Arms Ithaca 12ga side by side locally. Very clean, though the stock has been refinished. Choked mod and full, dual triggers, hammerless. Has engraving of a dog on one side. Quality? Value? I know nothing about sxs and would love to get a decent one cheap if that is possible. Not collecting, just a bird gun. This looks like a candidate. Feels good in the hand. What say you?

Thanks.

[gunut]

low end Ithaca manufactured double....made from about 1930-1946....worth $200 give or take in todays market.......

[eastbank]

i think closer to 400.00 or so. if you are going to hunt with it and not put mega amounts of ammo thru it, it will do the job. the problem i ran into useing the older firearms is if a part breaks you may be looking at a very costly repair. the people who are qualfied in making good repairs are few and far between and know their worth. as i like the older firearms i would buy it. eastbank.

[jaguarxk120]

Eastbank is spot on as to value. My 2009 Std. Cat of Firearms lists the Western as $200 in fair condition.

But Guns International listing shows one forsale at $400. The market for older doubles is changing because collectors are wanting the "other or plainer" models since there were more of them made.

There are only so many of the high end guns made, and having a complete series, lower end, would be just as good as having one or two higher end guns.

[baddarryl]

So at $400 out the door certainly no bargain. I read the receivers were made of iron too, so that scares a little. If only it were 20ga. Thanks!

[jaguarxk120]

Many guns of that era were made with cast iron receivers, and up until the adding of high pressure rifle rounds to the H & H single shot guns those receivers were made of cast iron.

[baddarryl]

Can they shoot modern ammo?

[Mosin-Marauder]

I've heard they belong to an Indian tribe in Florida. The Itahaca's are neighbors to the Seminals. Just don't modify it in any way. They wouldn't be very happy, their tribe would get a bad name.

(Denis would be proud )

[44 AMP]

I have my Grandfather's Ithaca SxS, bought new, and made to his order in 1909. It is NOT CAST IRON.

The barrels are "fluid steel", (the first "modern steel") used in shotgun barrels, and is completely safe for (certain) modern smokeless powder ammunition.

I believe the particular gun I have is known as the Flues model, but there were several different names/models after the NID (New Industry Double).

My Grandfather had an Ithaca before this one, one he really liked. It had stub twist barrels (poor man's Damascus). After many years, a neighbor finally convinced him to sell it to him, and the gun passed down to me was his replacement for that one, being newer, had fluid steel barrels.

The stub twist gun's left barrel unraveled on firing, sometime in the earely 1940s.

Unless the gun was special ordered with twist barrels, after about the 20s they were all "fluid steel" (meaning the barrel was drilled from a solid blank, not made of hammer welded straps (Damascus), and is safe for smokeless powder).

An Ithaca made in the 30s (in good shape) is fine for smokeless. The recievers are steel, not iron.

What they are not good for is the Express or "baby Magnum" loads. Stick to 3-3 1/4 dram eq. loads and they should last lifetimes. Use 3 3/4dr eq loads VERY sparingly, and best not at all. And nothing heavier.

DO NOT USE STEEL SHOT of any kind.

My Grandpa"s Ithaca is 105 years old now, and while there is a little pitting in the barrels and some finish wear, its as tight and reliable as the day he first got it.

Back in that day, Ithaca guaranteed the springs to never take a "set". After 40 years of using the gun, Grandpa asked Ithaca if their guarantee was still good. I have the letter he got back, (in 1949) telling him the guarantee was still good, and there was a additional note from the vice president advising him to avoid using the express shells, as they were not needed and "akin to threading a needle with a bulldozer".

Your gun (and $400 is about right these days, money simply doesn't get what it used to) isn't worth a lot, compared to Parkers, LC Smiths, and other premium sought after guns, but its a good solid piece of its era, and treated properly will give generations of good faithful service.

The pointer(?) on the side was common, and higher grade guns had them on both sides, and highest grade guns had them in gold inlay.

[baddarryl]

Thank you 44 Amp. That is really what I was looking for.

[44 AMP]

You're welcome baddarryl.

one more thing to look for, check the safety. Some of the Ithacas had a 3 position safety. Being a low end field grade gun, it probably doesn't but there is no hard and fast rule that I am aware of.

Back in those days, you could buy your gun "off the rack", or you could buy it with any combination of features you wanted, direct from Ithaca.

My Grandfather's gun is 26" barrels, choked FULL/FULL, (what he wanted), and has the stock made to his personal specs (it has more drop than standard), extractors (no ejectors), and a 3 position safety.

He once told me that if he had known then what he knew now, he would have spent the extra money ($4, IIRC) and gotten ejectors. He never told me if he ordered the safety special, or not.

The safety, when pushed forward to the "fire" position moves back to the "safe" position when you break open the gun. My Grandpa's gun has a third position, pulled back from the "safe" position (you can see an "S" through a hole in the safety when its on safe). When the safety is in the rear (unmarked) position, the gun will fire, and the safety will NOT move to safe when the gun is opened.

ALSO (and this is what Pappa, loved about it), with the safety in the back position, and the gun open, pulling and holding both triggers back, while closing the action leaves the gun with the hammers down (uncocked). One NEVER need to dry fire that gun to store it with the hammers down. Also, an added benefit is that this gun can be stored loaded and uncocked. Quite safe, and simply breaking it open (all the way) and reclosing it makes it fully ready.

His gun lived through two generations of inquisitive children, LOADED, behind the (always open) dining room door, quite safely. Children too small to understand gun safety were also too small to cock the gun (it does take a bit of effort to get it all the way open when its not cocked), and children big enough to physically do it were also big enough to understand it, and be safe.

Someone, somewhere might read this last bit, and have a fit about how "unsafe" that was, and how much "risk" he put his family in (for nearly 80 years?) not having the gun "properly" stored. As far as I'm concerned, they can have their fit, and fall down in it. There were lots of things on the farm that were "dangerous", and children in those era's weren't as coddled and protected from reality as is common today. Instead, they were expected to actually LEARN, and be responsible.
(sorry for the rant)

[baddarryl]

Nice!