Hodgdon Universal in .45 acp

BigJimP · July 22, 2010, 11:42 AM

Looking for input on "cleanliness" or any issues with Universal in .45 acp.

My primary powder is TiteGroup / but I'm working with a new reloader and he has 8 lbs of Universal so he wants to use that. In looking at the tables Min is 4.5gr, 703 fps, 11,400 CUP -- Max is 5.4gr, 857 fps, 16,800 CUP / we will load a 230gr CMJ RN Montana Gold bullet. He will shoot the loads in a 1911, 5" barrel .../ CCI large pistol primers.

I think we'll target his loads for 5.1gr / around 800 fps ....but before I suggest that ( and I'll test a few before we run a couple thousand rounds ) ...but any input for me on the low end of the powder range / or on the high end ...on how dirty or smokey it was / did you get a lot of unburnt powder at the low end ??

My experience with Universal is in shotguns ( and its really dirty in a 20ga load at 14gr at 11,900 psi, 1200 fps/ but real clean in a 28ga load at 13.8gr and 11,500 psi and 1200 fps ) ...so I use it for 28ga and not in the 20ga. There is a lot of unburnt powder in a 20ga load / but almost none in the 28ga ....yet the specs are pretty close in both gagues ??

so I'm curious about your experience in .45 acp / thanks, in advance, for your input .

chris in va · July 24, 2010, 02:34 PM

Sorry, I only used it in 9mm but it burned clean at most charges. I'll probably go back to it after my Bullseye is used up. Hopefully it works as well in 45 as that's my other major caliber.

**Unclenick** · July 24, 2010, 02:58 PM

Universal is often suggested as substitute for Unique because it is cleaner and meters more consistently. I find it a little faster than Unique but slower than Bullseye; in between. In some chamberings it needs the same charge as Unique, while in others it needs 5% less or so.

I've run a lot of 200 gr. LSWC"s over 4.8 Grains of Universal in .45 ACP for general practice. Worked fine. Functioned guns with full power springs just fine.

**Mal H** · July 24, 2010, 04:00 PM

Universal is my favorite powder for .45 ACP. Since the question is on its cleanliness, I feel it is pretty much ideal in that respect, especially when compared to Bullseye or Unique. It's neither dirty nor smokey in a wide range of loads, but as you wondered, it does tend to leave some unburned powder when used with low pressure loads. But, it's clean unburned powder!

cryogenic419 · July 24, 2010, 06:30 PM

I have used it for .45 for in the mid to higher loads and it works fine. Not too dirty during warmer months but when weather gets colder it seems like a totally different beast. Colder temps seem to leave unburned powder and its very dirty. I am not sure if all powders do that to some extent or not in cold weather (40F and below). As far as smokey I do most of my shooting outdoors so as long as theres a slight breeze its not an issue. Indoors its really no worse than any other powder

Mr Kris · July 25, 2010, 09:50 AM

I use Universal in 45ACP, shooting 230gr plated bullets at 830fps or so.... basically a replicate of factory WWB or UMC loadings.

Shooting 50 WWB rounds through my full size 1911 pretty leaves visible soot along the first 1.5" of the muzzle end of my gun. Shooting 200 rounds of my reloads leaves visible soot around the first quarter inch of the muzzle. I'm very happy with the cleanliness of it.

BigJimP · July 26, 2010, 11:14 AM

Thanks for the input uys ....I'm going to load up some test rounds at the upper half of the published recipe - and see how they perform.

**Unclenick** · July 26, 2010, 11:32 AM

Always start at the bottom end of the load range and work up, one step at a time, even if you just load one round of each step. I recommend 0.3 grain maximum steps in the .45 ACP. While it is highly unlikely to be a problem in this case, I've twice encountered manual starting loads that were already at above SAAMI maximum for the guns I fired them in. It costs little to make those single weighed charge test rounds. It will ensure there is no problem with the published load data range in your gun before you make up a pile of them that you have to pull down later if you learn they are too warm.

BigJimP · July 26, 2010, 11:54 AM

You're right unclenick,

although I agree, I think the risk is minimal in a .45 acp case as well ... I was going to load about 16 rds at 4.6gr, about 16 rds at 4.9 and 24 at 5.2gr ...just to make sure there are no problems on the loads ( and to check for progressive cleanliness ..).

You and I have both been doing this a long time / but people of all experience levels read these discussions.... My mistake..../I should have phrased it differently !

I'll be shooting my test loads in a Wilson CQB, 5" barrel ...its a fully supported chamber .../and my buddy ( I'm mentoring, will be shooting a Springfield loaded TRP? 5 " / or a Wilson CQB 5" as well ...) and I have no worries about the barrels.

July 22, 2010, 11:42 AM	#1
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Hodgdon Universal in .45 acp Looking for input on "cleanliness" or any issues with Universal in .45 acp. My primary powder is TiteGroup / but I'm working with a new reloader and he has 8 lbs of Universal so he wants to use that. In looking at the tables Min is 4.5gr, 703 fps, 11,400 CUP -- Max is 5.4gr, 857 fps, 16,800 CUP / we will load a 230gr CMJ RN Montana Gold bullet. He will shoot the loads in a 1911, 5" barrel .../ CCI large pistol primers. I think we'll target his loads for 5.1gr / around 800 fps ....but before I suggest that ( and I'll test a few before we run a couple thousand rounds ) ...but any input for me on the low end of the powder range / or on the high end ...on how dirty or smokey it was / did you get a lot of unburnt powder at the low end ?? My experience with Universal is in shotguns ( and its really dirty in a 20ga load at 14gr at 11,900 psi, 1200 fps/ but real clean in a 28ga load at 13.8gr and 11,500 psi and 1200 fps ) ...so I use it for 28ga and not in the 20ga. There is a lot of unburnt powder in a 20ga load / but almost none in the 28ga ....yet the specs are pretty close in both gagues ?? so I'm curious about your experience in .45 acp / thanks, in advance, for your input .

July 24, 2010, 02:58 PM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Universal is often suggested as substitute for Unique because it is cleaner and meters more consistently. I find it a little faster than Unique but slower than Bullseye; in between. In some chamberings it needs the same charge as Unique, while in others it needs 5% less or so. I've run a lot of 200 gr. LSWC"s over 4.8 Grains of Universal in .45 ACP for general practice. Worked fine. Functioned guns with full power springs just fine. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 26, 2010, 11:32 AM	#8
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Always start at the bottom end of the load range and work up, one step at a time, even if you just load one round of each step. I recommend 0.3 grain maximum steps in the .45 ACP. While it is highly unlikely to be a problem in this case, I've twice encountered manual starting loads that were already at above SAAMI maximum for the guns I fired them in. It costs little to make those single weighed charge test rounds. It will ensure there is no problem with the published load data range in your gun before you make up a pile of them that you have to pull down later if you learn they are too warm. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 24, 2010, 02:34 PM	#2
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Sorry, I only used it in 9mm but it burned clean at most charges. I'll probably go back to it after my Bullseye is used up. Hopefully it works as well in 45 as that's my other major caliber.

July 24, 2010, 04:00 PM	#4
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	Universal is my favorite powder for .45 ACP. Since the question is on its cleanliness, I feel it is pretty much ideal in that respect, especially when compared to Bullseye or Unique. It's neither dirty nor smokey in a wide range of loads, but as you wondered, it does tend to leave some unburned powder when used with low pressure loads. But, it's clean unburned powder!

July 24, 2010, 06:30 PM	#5
cryogenic419 Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2009 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 569	I have used it for .45 for in the mid to higher loads and it works fine. Not too dirty during warmer months but when weather gets colder it seems like a totally different beast. Colder temps seem to leave unburned powder and its very dirty. I am not sure if all powders do that to some extent or not in cold weather (40F and below). As far as smokey I do most of my shooting outdoors so as long as theres a slight breeze its not an issue. Indoors its really no worse than any other powder

July 25, 2010, 09:50 AM	#6
Mr Kris Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2005 Location: USA Posts: 111	I use Universal in 45ACP, shooting 230gr plated bullets at 830fps or so.... basically a replicate of factory WWB or UMC loadings. Shooting 50 WWB rounds through my full size 1911 pretty leaves visible soot along the first 1.5" of the muzzle end of my gun. Shooting 200 rounds of my reloads leaves visible soot around the first quarter inch of the muzzle. I'm very happy with the cleanliness of it.

July 26, 2010, 11:14 AM	#7
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Thanks for the input uys ....I'm going to load up some test rounds at the upper half of the published recipe - and see how they perform.

July 26, 2010, 11:54 AM	#9
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	You're right unclenick, although I agree, I think the risk is minimal in a .45 acp case as well ... I was going to load about 16 rds at 4.6gr, about 16 rds at 4.9 and 24 at 5.2gr ...just to make sure there are no problems on the loads ( and to check for progressive cleanliness ..). You and I have both been doing this a long time / but people of all experience levels read these discussions.... My mistake..../I should have phrased it differently ! I'll be shooting my test loads in a Wilson CQB, 5" barrel ...its a fully supported chamber .../and my buddy ( I'm mentoring, will be shooting a Springfield loaded TRP? 5 " / or a Wilson CQB 5" as well ...) and I have no worries about the barrels.