What wildcat is this?

kkb · February 7, 2010, 02:34 PM

While picking up my brass at the range I'll go ahead and grab most anything else around, if just to see what other folks are shooting.

I came across a pile of brass stamped 30-30 Win but the necks had been expanded to the point where they're now straight-walled cartridges with a length of ~2 inches and a mouth diameter a little under .4 inch.

What the heck are they?

270winforlife · February 7, 2010, 03:48 PM

theres a bunch of possibilities, but one that comes to mind is the "35-30/30" which is a 30-30 necked up to accept a 35 caliber bullet, and has been around as a "wildcat" since around 1900 as per the Cartridges of the World Book by Frank Barnes. There is also a "35-30/30 Ackley Improved" wildcat cartridge that is much less popular. For the 35-30/30 there is still a slight shoulder, but not much. If there is no shoulder and it is completely blown out, appearing straight and if you measurement of the opening is around .4, maybe its a 30-30 win blown out to accept a .338 bullet, .375 bullet or a .416 bullet...three of the most popular bullet sizes. I think you may want to get one of these cartridges books and try to match it up if youre still curious, or post a picture of it and I'll try for you. Enjoy reloading.

Sevens · February 7, 2010, 04:04 PM

My guess is that they aren't wildcats at all, but rather some goofs either mistakenly or intentionally shooting the wrong ammo in a rifle with a chamber (and/or barrel) larger than .30-30.

My reasoning is simple-- folks that wildcat have to either buy their brass and handload it, or FORM their own brass and handload it. You can't get ammo for a wildcat without doing that unless you have a buddy that will load it. (I'm sure there are some small boutique reloading "firms" out there that will...)

Nobody who shoots a wildcat chucks brass all over a range and leaves it there.

bedlamite · February 7, 2010, 04:40 PM

That sounds like a .375 Winchester.

Scorch · February 7, 2010, 05:38 PM

Agree, it could be 375 Winchester, but 38-55 has almost the same dimensions as the 375 Winchester. Could be either one.

Quote:

maybe its a 30-30 win blown out to accept a .338 bullet, .375 bullet or a .416 bullet...three of the most popular bullet sizes.

I could be wrong, but I don't think I have ever seen a wildcat based on the 30-30 that will accept a .416" bullet. Probably because the base of the cartridge is about that size . . .

bedlamite · February 7, 2010, 05:45 PM

Scorch, the 38-55 was the first one I thought of, but it's .470" at the base the OP didn't mention a bulge.

kkb · February 7, 2010, 08:20 PM

That .375 looks like it might be it. None of them have a bulge, but most of them have what looks like a hot-spot/burn mark close to the mouth. Don't know it that is from firing or from a bad annealing job or what.

270winforlife · February 7, 2010, 10:17 PM

agreed, its not the 35-30/30 after looking at your pictures, definately looks like a straightwall or slightly inset.

Jbar4Ranch · February 7, 2010, 10:24 PM

.38-55

The burn marks are from annealing.

Scorch · February 7, 2010, 11:34 PM

Quote:

the 38-55 was the first one I thought of, but it's .470" at the base

No, it's the same case head size as 30-30.

The burn marks are from annealing or mild loads not completely sealing the chamber.

Loader9 · February 7, 2010, 11:41 PM

That's what 30-30 brass is going to look like if it is incorrectly fired in a 38-55. I had a guy next to me at a local range that couldn't get his 85 Hiwall to group at all. It was chambered in 38-55 but he was shooting handloads of 30-30 time after time after time until he shot probably 40 rounds thru it. He asked if I had any ideas for him. When I looked at the ammo he was shooting it was obvious that this long time shooter had made a major goof. It happens to even the best of us.

Sport45 · February 8, 2010, 01:00 AM

I make .375Win brass from .30-30 by using a few grains of fast pistol powder under a case full of corn meal topped by a bit of bar soap. They blow out just like the case you've described.

.375Win and .38-55 are not common cartridges. I'm surprised someone would go to the trouble of fire forming that brass just to leave it laying on the ground. It may well be that someone put some .30-30 through one of those guns not knowing what he was doing.

bedlamite · February 8, 2010, 08:28 AM

Scorch, if that's the case then the Hornady manual is wrong.

jimkim · February 8, 2010, 11:32 AM

The 38-55 case does not have a .470" base. It has a .421" base. The 30-30 was based on the 38-55, and 38-55 brass can be readily formed from it. The 38-40 has a .470" base.

Scorch · February 8, 2010, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Scorch, if that's the case then the Hornady manual is wrong

OK, so I guess the Hornady manual is wrong! What version do you have? In my Hornady manual (7th Edition), it's shown correctly.

Quote:

That's what 30-30 brass is going to look like if it is incorrectly fired in a 38-55.

That could be, too!

kkb · February 8, 2010, 01:26 PM

Okay.

Assuming it's an intentional sizing I'm getting swayed to the .38-55 camp. In Hornady's 6th edition they list a base diameter of .419", Lyman's 48th says .4191" (close enough

) max, I'm measuring .415". Also I'm not seeing the cylindrical section at the mouth of a .375 but rather a straight taper from base to mouth.

February 7, 2010, 02:34 PM	#1
kkb Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2004 Location: Western Slope, Colorado Posts: 403	What wildcat is this? While picking up my brass at the range I'll go ahead and grab most anything else around, if just to see what other folks are shooting. I came across a pile of brass stamped 30-30 Win but the necks had been expanded to the point where they're now straight-walled cartridges with a length of ~2 inches and a mouth diameter a little under .4 inch. What the heck are they?

February 7, 2010, 04:04 PM	#3
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	My guess is that they aren't wildcats at all, but rather some goofs either mistakenly or intentionally shooting the wrong ammo in a rifle with a chamber (and/or barrel) larger than .30-30. My reasoning is simple-- folks that wildcat have to either buy their brass and handload it, or FORM their own brass and handload it. You can't get ammo for a wildcat without doing that unless you have a buddy that will load it. (I'm sure there are some small boutique reloading "firms" out there that will...) Nobody who shoots a wildcat chucks brass all over a range and leaves it there. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

February 7, 2010, 04:40 PM	#4
bedlamite Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2000 Location: WI Posts: 1,395	That sounds like a .375 Winchester. __________________ A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.

February 7, 2010, 05:45 PM	#6
bedlamite Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2000 Location: WI Posts: 1,395	Scorch, the 38-55 was the first one I thought of, but it's .470" at the base the OP didn't mention a bulge. __________________ A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.

February 7, 2010, 08:20 PM	#7
kkb Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2004 Location: Western Slope, Colorado Posts: 403	That .375 looks like it might be it. None of them have a bulge, but most of them have what looks like a hot-spot/burn mark close to the mouth. Don't know it that is from firing or from a bad annealing job or what. Last edited by kkb; January 1, 2013 at 04:40 PM.

February 7, 2010, 03:48 PM	#2
270winforlife Member Join Date: February 1, 2010 Posts: 40	theres a bunch of possibilities, but one that comes to mind is the "35-30/30" which is a 30-30 necked up to accept a 35 caliber bullet, and has been around as a "wildcat" since around 1900 as per the Cartridges of the World Book by Frank Barnes. There is also a "35-30/30 Ackley Improved" wildcat cartridge that is much less popular. For the 35-30/30 there is still a slight shoulder, but not much. If there is no shoulder and it is completely blown out, appearing straight and if you measurement of the opening is around .4, maybe its a 30-30 win blown out to accept a .338 bullet, .375 bullet or a .416 bullet...three of the most popular bullet sizes. I think you may want to get one of these cartridges books and try to match it up if youre still curious, or post a picture of it and I'll try for you. Enjoy reloading.

February 7, 2010, 10:17 PM	#8
270winforlife Member Join Date: February 1, 2010 Posts: 40	agreed, its not the 35-30/30 after looking at your pictures, definately looks like a straightwall or slightly inset.

February 7, 2010, 10:24 PM	#9
Jbar4Ranch Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Near Helena, Montana Posts: 1,719	.38-55 The burn marks are from annealing. __________________ Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets replaced... SASS 47015

February 7, 2010, 11:41 PM	#11
Loader9 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2008 Posts: 949	That's what 30-30 brass is going to look like if it is incorrectly fired in a 38-55. I had a guy next to me at a local range that couldn't get his 85 Hiwall to group at all. It was chambered in 38-55 but he was shooting handloads of 30-30 time after time after time until he shot probably 40 rounds thru it. He asked if I had any ideas for him. When I looked at the ammo he was shooting it was obvious that this long time shooter had made a major goof. It happens to even the best of us.

February 8, 2010, 01:00 AM	#12
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	I make .375Win brass from .30-30 by using a few grains of fast pistol powder under a case full of corn meal topped by a bit of bar soap. They blow out just like the case you've described. .375Win and .38-55 are not common cartridges. I'm surprised someone would go to the trouble of fire forming that brass just to leave it laying on the ground. It may well be that someone put some .30-30 through one of those guns not knowing what he was doing. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter. Last edited by Sport45; February 8, 2010 at 01:09 AM.

February 8, 2010, 08:28 AM	#13
bedlamite Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2000 Location: WI Posts: 1,395	Scorch, if that's the case then the Hornady manual is wrong. __________________ A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.

February 8, 2010, 01:26 PM	#16
kkb Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2004 Location: Western Slope, Colorado Posts: 403	Okay. Assuming it's an intentional sizing I'm getting swayed to the .38-55 camp. In Hornady's 6th edition they list a base diameter of .419", Lyman's 48th says .4191" (close enough ) max, I'm measuring .415". Also I'm not seeing the cylindrical section at the mouth of a .375 but rather a straight taper from base to mouth. Last edited by kkb; February 8, 2010 at 01:35 PM.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search