PPQ and lead

[Roland Thunder]

Is OK to shoot lead bullets from a Walther PPQ. I was thinking it had polygonal rifling.

[9x18_Walther]

Lead is okay to shoot in the PPQ. I don't believe the manual even warns about the practice like other manufacturers. The PPQ is pretty stout. Walther even indicates that you can fire the PPQ Navy underwater, which I don't recall in another manual.

Glocks have polygonal rifling, warn against firing cast lead bullets, and people have flung thousands of rounds of lead down range without a problem.

When firing cast lead the key is to watch the additional fouling that will occur in the barrel which will entail more frequent cleaning. I recommend you find a good lead bore solvent if you wish to go down this route.

[Roland Thunder]

I was looking in my PPQ manual to see what it said about lead and polygonal rifling and I did not see any mention of either. However, this review of the PPQ/45acp http://www.handgunsmag.com/reviews/r...-m2-in-45-acp/ says not to use lead because of the polygonal rifling. Perhaps the PPQ 45acp is different from the 9mm one I have with regards to that, I doubt it.

[TMD]

Glocks have polygonal rifling, warn against firing cast lead bullets, and people have flung thousands of rounds of lead down range without a problem.

Thats funny, I currently own three Glocks and have had several others in the past. Each one had an owners manual and not a single one mentioned lead. They all however had the same generic statement as almost all other manufacturers that says to not shoot reloads.

[JDBerg]

I've shot every type of factory ammo and I've shot good quality hardcast SWC reloads through my Glock 21, you just clean the gun after you are done shooting the really dirty stuff, no big deal!

[mrdaputer]

The PPQ45 does indeed have a different barrel.

[lee n. field]

Glocks have polygonal rifling, warn against firing cast lead bullets

Glock and their warning spread "fear, uncertainty and doubt" among the owners of every other gun with anything other than land-and-groove rifling.

[9x18_Walther]

Each one had an owners manual and not a single one mentioned lead.

Some of the manuals (later revisions?) indicate, "Glock does not recommend the use of unjacketed lead ammunition.".

From the Glock website:

Can I use lead bullets?
No, we recommend the use of jacketed ammunition only.

https://us.glock.com/customer-service/faq

As long as you watch the build up in the barrel, it is safe. I believe the issue dealt with polygonal rifling allowing lead to build up quicker and causing issues with barrel pressure.

Clean and don't worry about it.

[briandg]

If I accept the rules about lead in a glock, does that restriction also hold for plated?

[jmhyer]

Plated should cause no problems.

[9x18_Walther]

If I accept the rules about lead in a glock, does that restriction also hold for plated?

As long as the barrel is not becoming filled solid with lead your fine.

Plated is perfectly fine. If you have ever used Federal Champion "FMJ" (Wal-Mart), you have used a plated bullet.

Plated or lead should not be fired in a compensated weapon. I would also stay away from using them in a suppressor as well.

[TailGator]

If I accept the rules about lead in a glock, does that restriction also hold for plated?

I have reloaded with plated bullets from X-Treme quite a bit, and the barrels of all my pistols, including a Glock, look fine. The plated bullets behave like FMJs for me, but I do not push the upper limits where they are said to misbehave.

[chris in va]

Glock doesn't use polygonal rifling in the traditional sense. It's more of a smoothbore with a couple speedbumps thrown in. I shot over a thousand through my G21 with zero buildup.

I suspect Walther uses the normal 'stopsign in crosssection' design which isn't very friendly toward lead use.

[skizzums]

Regardless of the "manufacturer recommendations", you CAN shoot lead in any type of action/barrel/twist rate etc. Anyone shooting lead bullets, no matter what gun you have, should be diligent with their routine inspection of the barrel and chamber over a period of a thousand rounds or so until you learn how your pistol "behaves" with the alloy. Look for streaking, rifling at the first inch looks shallow or just the last inch(last inch leading is generally a lube failure). You may find that your pistol does indeed "lead-up" in a short period of shots, this could be due to a poor quality alloy, poor bullet fit to bore diameter, rough barrel/throat/chamber, running lead too fast for lube/alloy. In the case of Glock, their isn't alot of "real-world" evidence that has shown any excessive build up with lead bullets, their warning is likely just to cover their butts in rare cases of severe negligence to firearm inspections where a long term build-up of lead could possibly cause over-pressure problems. The forums are filled with thousand Glock owners that shoot lead with, as far as I know, have never had a problem with a cause linked directly to using lead bullets. This could also be another way for Glock to discourage people to reload for their pistols period, because as we most know, reloaders are commonly posting pics of blown up guns likely due to poor reloading techniques not the pistol itself but still tarnishing company's reputation t passer by's. Surely all gun companies have some cost associated with proving/disproving ammo associated gun damage and admitting or dismissing guilt, and surely if they could have it their way, nobody would reload and that would be one less headache for them. Cast away and pay attention and start with slow speeds and work up appropriately and enjoy your new Walther

[TMD]

Here's my G35 with close to 18k rounds through it and not a single factory load. In fact about 6k of those rounds were lead.
Yes it took some trial and error to find a bullet with the proper hardness to match the pressure of the round but once I did I would routinely put 500 to 1000 rounds through it between cleanings and leading was not an issue. Only reason I switched back to plated was because my supplier dried up for a while then his prices were the same as plated so I didn't bother.
who know, maybe it will be round 18001 that goes KaBoom but for now I'll keep shooting it.

[JDBerg]

I need to clarify something here, there is a big difference between the hardcast alloy bullets I mentioned earlier and the pure lead bullets that my SASS friends reload to shoot with their cowboy guns. Hardcast alloy bullets are comprised of different alloyed metals and may or may not contain some lead, depending on whose manufactured bullet it is. My SASS fiends (I mean friends, Freudian slip) pour their own round nose bullets from recycled lead wheel weights and sometimes press linotype. I would shoot hardcast bullets out of any gun I own, but save the pure lead stuff for the revolvers.

[briandg]

I mostly hand cast, and I know quit well that my lead is substandard. I engage in diligent cleaning. Anyone who pours a ton of lead thorough a handgun without a thorough scrubbing at least once in a while is looking at absolute disaster after a few years. Once the build-up starts, it escalates pretty rapidly, and it shoul eventually cause increasing over pressure.

[JohnKSa]

who know, maybe it will be round 18001 that goes KaBoom...

Yup, maybe it will...

The case which made Glock start advising against the use of lead involved a high-volume shooter who blew up one of his Glocks after 20,000+ rounds. His analysis (he is a forensic engineer) demonstrated the cause of the failure. You can read about it in "The Glock in Competition". By the way, he posts here as MarkCO.

[lee n. field]

The case which made Glock start advising against the use of lead involved a high-volume shooter who blew up one of his Glocks after 20,000+ rounds. His analysis (he is a forensic engineer) demonstrated the cause of the failure.

And a Lone Wolf barrel is cheap peace of mind.

[9x18_Walther]

And a Lone Wolf barrel is cheap peace of mind.

Not familiar with aftermarket barrels. What is the difference? Strength?

[lee n. field]

The Lone Wolf (and most likely others), have land and groove rifling.

[TMD]

I need to clarify something here, there is a big difference between the hardcast alloy bullets I mentioned earlier and the pure lead bullets that my SASS friends reload to shoot with their cowboy guns. Hardcast alloy bullets are comprised of different alloyed metals and may or may not contain some lead, depending on whose manufactured bullet it is. My SASS fiends (I mean friends, Freudian slip) pour their own round nose bullets from recycled lead wheel weights and sometimes press linotype. I would shoot hardcast bullets out of any gun I own, but save the pure lead stuff for the revolvers.

The big difference is cowboy loads in .45lc, .38spc, ect is they are powder puff loads in the 15k-18k psi range. What people fail to understand is 9mm and .40S&W loads are in the 30-35k range. Those soft pure lead boolits will lead any type barrel at those pressures. Sure you could download to less pressures then you run into cycling issues unless you put in a lighter recoil spring. Even then its still in the mid 20k range. The trick and its not black magic is to match the hardness to the pressure. In my case the boolits I were using were in the 22-24 brn.

[briandg]

My starting lead loads in my glock weren't really hot enough to properly cycle, OMO. They dropped the brass right at my feet. Factory blasts them up to around ten feet.

[expendable]

Greg,

Have you tried any lead in your PPQ yet?

The PPQ doesn't have polygonal rifling but it does have a stepped chamber that may cause issues with lead because they are usually a larger diameter than jacketed bullets.

Koz