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November 20, 2012, 01:23 AM | #76 | |
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November 20, 2012, 08:15 AM | #77 |
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An historic battle concept has ALWAYS been proven by combat that he who controls the high ground, . . . controls the battle.
Secondly, in the typical construction of today's stick house, . . . there are at least 2, 2x4's at the door post of the doorway, . . . and 16 inches or less from it back toward the bg is another, and another, and another, etc. On the angle he has to shoot at you, . . . only a very lucky, lucky shot could get through the wall as he shoots up at you while ascending the stairway. He presents a full body target, . . . you present half a face, half a shoulder, one hand, and a firearm, . . . raining lead down the stairway. Only a danged fool, . . . a meth head, . . . or an Obama supporter is stupid enough to try to come up the stairway as I have pictured in the little drawing. Tactically speaking: prone on the floor will get you killed, . . . you have to present your whole head and shoulders to get a firing picture. Kneeling allows the bg to ascend half way or more before you have a full sight picture. Standing, . . . behind one edge of the doorway, . . . you are behind reasonable cover, mostly concealed, and offer a very little target to someone below shooting up through the ceiling. Retreating into a bedroom, . . . gives the total advantage to the bg, . . . he has some idea where you are, . . . you have no real idea where he is. He can initiate the fight from concealment, . . . slicing the pie into your room, . . . you can only hold your breath and hope you don't have a heart attack waiting for him to come in. Take the high ground, . . . hold the high ground, . . . defend from the high ground, . . . it has worked for centuries, . . . it'll work in your house. May God bless, Dwight
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November 20, 2012, 08:51 AM | #78 |
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Let's consider the defender's primary goals:
If the defender fails to achieve Objective Number One, the attainment of Objective No. Two will be at risk. Fulfilling Objective Number Four will go a long way toward meeting the others. Only an assassin--someone with the objective of killing the family members--would want to knowingly break into a safe room; he would put himself at extreme risk; and be sure of success, he would likely have to use smoke or explosive devices. On the other hand, one would reasonably expect any burglar to shoot for his own self preservation if he sees someone aiming a firearm at him. Every single trainer, instructor, and expert of whom I am aware recommends getting the family into a safe room and defending from there. |
November 20, 2012, 09:11 AM | #79 | |
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I'm not buying the high ground 'automatic'...that is more a battleground scenario....
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I also have a doorway on the stairs and it is actually like a horsebarn door...the top unlatches and can open leaving the bottom shut if I want(he would have to bust door or reach overtop to unlatch bottom part). I guess I could leave that door closed but any shots fired are sideways as at the top of the stairs you must take a left or right. It would be considerably more difficult and dangerous to fire upon BG from top of the stairs in my family's specific situation+in my opinion)....room on either side of bottom, he could literally reach thru rail and fire upstairs, another hallway andor area at the bottom, he can be stealthy but now I can't etc. also, I have to show myself to get a shot. If I do this and he is waiting I am dead just like that. I feel like this thread was answered right at the beginning stages...there are just differing options, other acceptable tactics, and better options depending on one's personal home left.
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November 23, 2012, 11:45 AM | #80 |
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Compared to many defense situations being somewhat down a hallway but having a line of site to the top of the stairway, therefore a line of fire, is a pretty good defensive position.
Some of my non-gun friends say I am paranoid because I have made a defensive plan for every home I have lived in. |
November 23, 2012, 07:36 PM | #81 |
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Don't mean to be simplistic, but if my family is asleep upstairs, I don't want Bubba and his friends up there. Bubba will never be so vulnerable as coming up those stairs.
Obviously, not all situations involve protecting the stairs. The circumstances will dictate what needs to be done. And you'll dictate whether you do it more so than where it happens at . |
November 23, 2012, 08:06 PM | #82 |
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If you own your house, put a good solid-core door on the bedroom. Top of the stairs is as good a place as any, you can scurry back into the room if you have to. Make sure there is a cell phone in the fallback area.
Don't hesitate to shoot. Once they mount the stairs, they are into the occupied area and have forsaken burglar and property crimes for something much worse. You don't have to ask them their intentions first, divine the entrails of a raccoon, or cite state-specific case law beforehand. |
November 24, 2012, 08:44 AM | #83 | ||||
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All experts I know of recommend defending from a safe room. Quote:
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November 24, 2012, 10:12 AM | #84 |
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OldMarksman,
"Right. The problem is, he and his accomplices may well well enter, very suddenly and with force, when the family is not asleep upstairs. That's the scenario to be prepared for. " Through 83 posts the concept has been a night time entry while you are sleeping. I think my current plan is pretty good. The day time scenario you bring up is the hardest to prepare for due to the endless number of variables. You almost have to either keep large dogs or keep a gun on your person all the time. |
November 24, 2012, 11:48 AM | #85 | |||
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And there are almost always more than one. Quote:
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November 24, 2012, 08:57 PM | #86 |
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A defense plan for your home should be in depth. Passive measures like good exterior lighting, motion activated lights, good security doors with locks are the first line of defense. A loud external alarm if a breech occurs is the second, the alarm may scare off the intruders. More probably it will irritate the neighbors and they will complain to the cops that will serve the same purpose.
A call to 911, (In my case that is for record purposes only, their response time is about 2 hours.) necessary. Get the cavalry on the way. I have concerns with the safe room which is not supported by an active defense. Basically retreat to a safe room gives the BGs free range of the home. When they find they cannot gain access they may decide to torch your home. In which case you and your family loose. i |
November 25, 2012, 12:20 AM | #87 |
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I've read the whole post, lot's of good advice, but none of it addresses my situation. Thumbnail sketch, ranch home with basement, 3 bedrooms upstairs,(two occupied) three downstairs (all occupied). A large enough house that sometimes shouting can't be heard between the floors. Multiple access points upstairs and down, window wells large enough to get in through in basement as well. The one good point is the bedrooms are all on one side of the house so theoretically two people(completely exposed) could defend the hallways. I'm the only person in the house who doesn't visibly flinch when handed a firearm. I can't see any other way but to go on offense but according to those of you who are trained that's stupid. Any ideas?
P.S. It's a rental, no alterations
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November 27, 2012, 10:04 AM | #88 |
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I wouldn't say going on the "offense" is stupid if you have to in order to ensure the safety of your loved ones. And I wouldn't call it going on the offense either, bcause you shouldn't be actively seeking the invaders, you should be seeking to secure your loved ones.
Seems to me that you need to plan as a family unit the best way to rally at one defensible location and practice doing it often, and under duress, such as middle of the night, no power, etc. Also, it might be handy to consider some easy to remember challenge/pass words so as to be able to communicate with one and another and not cede any info to the bad guys and plan for contacting police to get back up on the way. Granted, I'm not "trained" per se, but as a combat vet, it seems to me, that having a plan to rally, a plan to communicate, back-up, and a defensive firearm is a good starting point.
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November 28, 2012, 12:54 AM | #89 | |
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My Lord... at what point are we finally allowed to act to defend ourselves and our families in our own homes? Last edited by Chris9472; November 28, 2012 at 01:20 AM. |
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November 28, 2012, 01:47 AM | #90 | |
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chris
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as for the bathroom or closet, I can understand your point. It is possible someone can talk to the cops from there or that the TFL posting that was talking about having his loved ones out of the way of bullet fire. My wife is holding a loaded weapon no matter the case in this scenario no matter what. I have to be honest...these invasions are quick and aggressive/volatile. It is nice to hear the alarm and have time to react, but you might head out of your room to the stairs and be TOAST. I have children...I can't let them stay alone in their room(s). I have to protect my babies.
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November 28, 2012, 11:11 AM | #91 | |||
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November 29, 2012, 08:47 PM | #92 | |
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Some say run to the bedroom and fire through the door at the first sign of forced entry. That may work in some situations, but the homebreakers can likewise shoot through the door first at you and your loved ones. If there is a reasonably safe way of stopping the threat without having to trap yourself in a small room with possibly no way out, I believe it would be best to do so. |
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November 29, 2012, 09:08 PM | #93 |
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In the OP's circumstance, I also believe the top of the stairs would offer the best defensive position.
While hunkering down in a closed room does have advantages, I believe my chances are better drawing a line somewhere forward of my family in the "Safe Room" IMO This gives the bad guy(s) one more obstacle they have to defeat before they can get to the rest of my family. The further forward I can make my stand (up to and including the front door) the more time my Wife may have to prepare should I not be successful.
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November 29, 2012, 09:20 PM | #94 |
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And the more time it gives for the police to arrive.
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November 29, 2012, 09:25 PM | #95 | ||||
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November 29, 2012, 10:10 PM | #96 | |||
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November 30, 2012, 07:53 AM | #97 | |||
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Someone spraying bullets blindly through a door (or wall) into a small room full of people can have deadly consequences for the occupants of that room.
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November 30, 2012, 10:56 AM | #98 |
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OuTcAsT, some of the experts here, and some of the certified trainers, advise defending from a safe room just because that is the strategy promoted by virtually all other experts.
There are others, however, who have personally engaged in FoF training using simunitions. They have found out what works and what does not. I seriously doubt that you will find many of them who would try twice to stay in one place while exposing half of themselves and aiming a firearm, with the hope that the other guy will be fully exposed and will not shoot them. You could ask them, or you could sign up and try it yourself. In the final analysis, it is the defender's objective to stay unhurt and to protect his family, using deadly force effectively as a last resort only when it becomes necessary. That means not exposing himself to fire. It also means that his objective is not to figure out how to best engage and shoot the guy somewhere in the house because he has entered. BTW, if you have the facilities, have someone put some targets on the other side of a wall and start shooting through the door. Count the hits. I do not think that you will worry much about that possibility afterwards. Then have two or three people engage a person who is half exposed, using simunitons, paint-ball, or Airsoft. I think you'll give up on that strategy. One or more of the intruders may get hit, but that's not what's important. |
December 2, 2012, 02:41 PM | #99 | |||||
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December 3, 2012, 02:51 AM | #100 | |
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