TC Hawken

salvadore · July 7, 2014, 03:06 PM

I've decided to shoot my TC Hawken, actually my brother's TC Hawken that he left with me 35+ years ago and I need some technical advice. First, I want to shoot the equivalent of 100grs. of BP with a Great Plains bullet that I believe weighs 425grs. my handy dandy Lee dipper info says 2 scoops of the 3.4 dipper using FFG weighs 100grs. I have an unopened container of pyrodex R/S that I apparently paid $7.97 for. Should I use the 3.4 dipper to get the equivalent of 100grs of ffg?

I was told this load is safe in the TC Hawken, is it? My brother left me two molds also, one is a round ball, the other looks like a stylized arrowhead and is I guess a maxi ball style of mold. One is a bronze color with a 573 stamped on it the RB is black with a 909 stamped on it and are of the same manufacturer. Did TC offer molds for their rifles and what would the maxi ball weigh?

One more question, what would be a good accuracy load be for the GP bullet and the MB bullet?

Thanks

Gemmer · July 7, 2014, 03:12 PM

Here is loading data from T/C for all of their BP guns. You need to know the caliber of your gun. http://www.restigouchegunclub.com/Fi...owder_Guns.pdf

Hawg · July 7, 2014, 04:18 PM

My .50 Hawken wasn't a TC but I used 90 grains and a maxi ball years ago. Pyrodex is a straight across sub for bp by volume.

salvadore · July 7, 2014, 04:20 PM

sorry, it's 54 cal.

Pahoo · July 7, 2014, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Did TC offer molds for their rifles and what would the maxi ball weigh?

Yes but these were made for them. TC was one of the first folks to deal with Maxi-Balls and then Maxi-Hunters which are similar to the Great Plaines.

Quote:

I was told this load is safe in the TC Hawken, is it?

Yes and your TC Hawken model is rated for a max load of 120grs., by volume of BP or Pyrodex. But I would not recommend it and if you do load this, hang on . .. .

Be Safe !!!

Sure Shot Mc Gee · July 7, 2014, 07:32 PM

So its a 54 after all. Well now that makes a difference. 425 gr Maxi is what I call a middle weight maxi for the 54 cal. Thompson's Instruction Manual list 540 gr. Maxi for use if wanting. So you see the 425 is easily within spec's to use. As far as the use of Lee Dippers. I strongly suggest the purchasing of an adjustable B/P (volume) measure'r. Pyrodex RS should be measured by (volume) not by Grain weight. Pretty powerful weapon you have there salvadore. Don't want any mistakes if intending to use 100 /plus (perhaps) volume charges of Pyrodex right from the get go. Charges that large. FWIW> be prepared to feel some heavy recoil on the shoulder. That cresent brass butt plate sure packs a wallop to the old shoulder..

Hawg · July 7, 2014, 07:40 PM

Quote:

That cresent brass butt plate sure packs a wallop to the old shoulder..

Not so much if you put it against your upper arm like it was intended to go. Against your shoulder those points are gonna hurt.

Pahoo · July 7, 2014, 07:56 PM

Per the manual;
.54 RB; 80grs. FFG, is optimum load
.54 Maxi-Ball and Hunter;
360 to 365grn Bullet; 100grs. FFG, is optimum
430 to 435grn Bullet; 100grs. FFG, is optimum
530 to 540grn Bullet; 90grs. FFG, is optimum

Be Safe !!!

B.L.E. · July 7, 2014, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Did TC offer molds for their rifles and what would the maxi ball weigh?

Lyman made Maxi-ball molds and may have made them for TC.

salvadore · July 7, 2014, 08:46 PM

The molds are aluminum I believe, single cavity and definitely not lyman.

salvadore · July 7, 2014, 08:49 PM

SSM, I recently bought a PAST recoil shield for my trapdoor and 8mm Yugo Mauser off a bench, I'm a bit of a wimp.

salvadore · July 7, 2014, 08:53 PM

Quote:

I strongly suggest the purchasing of an adjustable B/P (volume) measure'r.

SURE SHOT, you're killing me with my semi fixed income.

B.L.E. · July 7, 2014, 09:08 PM

Well, you can always just pick up an empty .375 H&H Magnum case and use it to measure 95 grains of powder. A .458 Win Mag case measures the same.

There was a whole thread on using empty brass as powder measures, for the cheapskates (and I don't mean that in a bad way).

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=432112

Sure Shot Mc Gee · July 7, 2014, 10:26 PM

Quote:

SURE SHOT, you're killing me with my semi fixed income.

This tool (link) is appropriate for the measuring of either Black Powder or Pyrodex. Nothing fancy. Not all that spendy. But it works as well as any other would.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/431...ProductFinding

mykeal · July 8, 2014, 07:33 AM

I don't understand the issue with using the Lee dippers to measure charges. They're volume measures; the 'adjustment' is to use a different size dipper. Two scoops of '3.4 dipper', allegedly producing 100 grains by volume of real black powder, will produce the same volume of Pyrodex P, which is thus equivalent.

An adjustable measure is certainly more convenient, but frankly they are so imprecise as to make a joke of accuracy. The Lee dippers are much more precise and repeatable.

salvadore · July 8, 2014, 09:17 AM

No BLE, you are right, I am a cheap Charlie.

I was thinking about looking for some plastic vial type with a cap and filling them with the powder charge I want to use that day. I'm thinking that just like every other rifle I shoot off a bench, I should shoot a fouler before putting it on paper. Do you guys agree?

Pahoo · July 8, 2014, 12:00 PM

Quote:

The molds are aluminum I believe, single cavity and definitely not lyman.

Throughout the years, there have been a small number of manufacturers that have made molds for TC. Some are aluminum and others steel. Lyman "was" a big supplier for them and they are steel. Lyman also had rounded sprue plate handles and I suspect that yours is squared off. Lyman is proud of their molds to clearly identify them. Not so for some of the others and those are some of the Aluminums. I think that some of these are Lees and most were only marked with the caliber. .....

Quote:

I don't understand the issue with using the Lee dippers to measure charges.

Depending on your service and loading, there is noting wrong with the dippers...

Be Safe !!!

salvadore · July 8, 2014, 01:59 PM

The two I have don't appear to be anything Lee made, they don't even have vents on the interior.

Hawg · July 8, 2014, 08:53 PM

I had a maxi ball mold and a great plains both by Lee and so marked.

salvadore · July 9, 2014, 09:16 AM

Mine just have some meaningless numbers that don't depict caliber or weight.

straight-shooter · July 13, 2014, 05:56 AM

Quote:

I was thinking about looking for some plastic vial type with a cap and filling them with the powder charge I want to use that day.

Here is where I picked up some vials that work tremendously. You can get them in either a short or longer version from this guy.

25 powder charge tubes

salvadore · July 13, 2014, 08:30 AM

Thanks SS, I may have to do that, best deal on vial type powder holders by far.

I recently found a brass measure like the one below, but shorter, maybe 60 grs at most with adjustments for lesser charges.

http://media.midwayusa.com/productim...831/831774.jpg

July 7, 2014, 03:06 PM	#1
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	TC Hawken I've decided to shoot my TC Hawken, actually my brother's TC Hawken that he left with me 35+ years ago and I need some technical advice. First, I want to shoot the equivalent of 100grs. of BP with a Great Plains bullet that I believe weighs 425grs. my handy dandy Lee dipper info says 2 scoops of the 3.4 dipper using FFG weighs 100grs. I have an unopened container of pyrodex R/S that I apparently paid $7.97 for. Should I use the 3.4 dipper to get the equivalent of 100grs of ffg? I was told this load is safe in the TC Hawken, is it? My brother left me two molds also, one is a round ball, the other looks like a stylized arrowhead and is I guess a maxi ball style of mold. One is a bronze color with a 573 stamped on it the RB is black with a 909 stamped on it and are of the same manufacturer. Did TC offer molds for their rifles and what would the maxi ball weigh? One more question, what would be a good accuracy load be for the GP bullet and the MB bullet? Thanks

July 7, 2014, 07:56 PM	#8
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Per the manual Per the manual; .54 RB; 80grs. FFG, is optimum load .54 Maxi-Ball and Hunter; 360 to 365grn Bullet; 100grs. FFG, is optimum 430 to 435grn Bullet; 100grs. FFG, is optimum 530 to 540grn Bullet; 90grs. FFG, is optimum Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

July 7, 2014, 09:08 PM	#13
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	Well, you can always just pick up an empty .375 H&H Magnum case and use it to measure 95 grains of powder. A .458 Win Mag case measures the same. There was a whole thread on using empty brass as powder measures, for the cheapskates (and I don't mean that in a bad way). http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=432112 __________________ Hanlon's Razor "Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."

July 7, 2014, 03:12 PM	#2
Gemmer Member Join Date: November 15, 2013 Posts: 38	Here is loading data from T/C for all of their BP guns. You need to know the caliber of your gun. http://www.restigouchegunclub.com/Fi...owder_Guns.pdf

July 7, 2014, 04:18 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	My .50 Hawken wasn't a TC but I used 90 grains and a maxi ball years ago. Pyrodex is a straight across sub for bp by volume.

July 7, 2014, 04:20 PM	#4
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	sorry, it's 54 cal.

July 7, 2014, 07:32 PM	#6
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	So its a 54 after all. Well now that makes a difference. 425 gr Maxi is what I call a middle weight maxi for the 54 cal. Thompson's Instruction Manual list 540 gr. Maxi for use if wanting. So you see the 425 is easily within spec's to use. As far as the use of Lee Dippers. I strongly suggest the purchasing of an adjustable B/P (volume) measure'r. Pyrodex RS should be measured by (volume) not by Grain weight. Pretty powerful weapon you have there salvadore. Don't want any mistakes if intending to use 100 /plus (perhaps) volume charges of Pyrodex right from the get go. Charges that large. FWIW> be prepared to feel some heavy recoil on the shoulder. That cresent brass butt plate sure packs a wallop to the old shoulder..

July 7, 2014, 08:46 PM	#10
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	The molds are aluminum I believe, single cavity and definitely not lyman.

July 7, 2014, 08:49 PM	#11
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	SSM, I recently bought a PAST recoil shield for my trapdoor and 8mm Yugo Mauser off a bench, I'm a bit of a wimp.

July 8, 2014, 07:33 AM	#15
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	I don't understand the issue with using the Lee dippers to measure charges. They're volume measures; the 'adjustment' is to use a different size dipper. Two scoops of '3.4 dipper', allegedly producing 100 grains by volume of real black powder, will produce the same volume of Pyrodex P, which is thus equivalent. An adjustable measure is certainly more convenient, but frankly they are so imprecise as to make a joke of accuracy. The Lee dippers are much more precise and repeatable.

July 8, 2014, 09:17 AM	#16
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	No BLE, you are right, I am a cheap Charlie. I was thinking about looking for some plastic vial type with a cap and filling them with the powder charge I want to use that day. I'm thinking that just like every other rifle I shoot off a bench, I should shoot a fouler before putting it on paper. Do you guys agree?

July 8, 2014, 01:59 PM	#18
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	The two I have don't appear to be anything Lee made, they don't even have vents on the interior.

July 8, 2014, 08:53 PM	#19
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I had a maxi ball mold and a great plains both by Lee and so marked.

July 9, 2014, 09:16 AM	#20
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	Mine just have some meaningless numbers that don't depict caliber or weight.

July 13, 2014, 08:30 AM	#22
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	Thanks SS, I may have to do that, best deal on vial type powder holders by far. I recently found a brass measure like the one below, but shorter, maybe 60 grs at most with adjustments for lesser charges. http://media.midwayusa.com/productim...831/831774.jpg