Help needed with the zouave rifle

[oldknotty]

Took mine apart to clean it and had to replace the sear spring and Hammer ,Before , the hammer , when it went into Half cock , did not clear the nipple so I was unable to add a cap unless it was in full cock position . i replaced a broken sear spring and a new hammer but it still does not clear the nipple in half cock what have I messed up or what needs to be replaced HELP !! :-) The hammer will not fit onto its square mount unless it is half cock then I have to full cock to add a cap ?? So far I have not even tried to add a cap as i do not want a misfire or such trouble

Martin

[Hawg]

Its not supposed to. It must be on full cock to cap.

[l.cutler]

I am not sure about other brands, but my Zoli Zouave has plenty of room to cap at half cock. Perhaps the tip of the sear is broken off or has been shortened?

[bedbugbilly]

You should be able to put it on half cock and have room enough to cock it.

You say you replaced the sear spring AND hammer? Replacing the sear spring would not affect anything - it just puts pressure on the sear to all it to go into the half cock and full cock notch of the tumbler.

Did you replace the hammer with a new one? If so, why? It sounds to me like you might have the hammer positioned wrong on the tumbler? Without seeing photos, it's hard to tell just what the problem is. My first guess though, is if it is the same hammer that was on it - is that you have it positioned wrong on the tumbler?

If you could post a photo of the inside of the lock and the outside - it would help. Don't get discouraged . . . . it shouldn't be hard to get the problem corrected.

[oldknotty]

here are the pictures you asked for the they show the rifle with the nipple out in fired , half cocked and full cocked and then with the nipple in , in half cocked . The inner works are in the same order fired , half and full .
Martin

[oldknotty]

second bit

[oldknotty]

#3 inside of lock area , hope this helps top give you an idea of what i have :-)
martin

[maillemaker]

Hi Old Knotty,

As I have read on different forums, this is a common problem with reproductions - they have low half-cock heights. The half-height cock position is entirely a factor of the notch geometry in the tumbler.

In N-SSA competition, we do not even use the half-cock position. We cap from a full-cock position and fire.

Steve

[oldknotty]

So there is not really a big problem with this set up then and it is safe to use the rifle ??
Martin

[maillemaker]

As long as your gun has a reasonable trigger poundage and will hold full cock safely, you should not have any problems. You will cap at full cock just prior to capping followed immediately by shooting. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire and you will be fine.

Now if you are hunting with the gun, you obviously don't want to carry at full cock and you will have to either figure out how to cap at half cock or cock at full cock and very carefully lower the hammer to half cock.

But if you are just target shooting load-cap-fire you don't have to use your half-cock at all.

Steve

[bedbugbilly]

olkknotty - thanks for posting the photos as they help a lot

Do you know what/who made your Zouave?

As Steve states . . . it depends on the maker as to the lock geometry and if it is such that half-cock clears the nipple enough to allow you to cap on half cock.

My Zouave was made in the early 1960s - it is not marked as to maker. I have set it side by side to an original 1863 Remington though and mine is as about as close as you can get for a reproduction.

On your Zouave - I see two things that contribute to the hammer not clearing the nipple enough on half-cock so that you can cap it.

First, the tumbler notch for the half-cock is positioned so that the hammer obviously falls too close to the nipple on half cock. It appears that it was made this way by the manufacturer - in essence, it is what it is.

Second - the barrel bolster is higher - mine is lower than yours which only means that the nipple sets lower and this also contributes to more space at the half cock position.

These observations in no way mean that your Zouave is inferior in any way or there is a problem with it. It is just the "nature of the beast" as some of the repros were made this way. Your Zouave should function just fine.

Steve also goes on to make some good points. As long as your full cock position and trigger pull are "heavy" enough that there is no chance of the hammer falling (a good way to test is to put it on full cock - unloaded and uncapped of course - and press against the back of the hammer spur to see if it will slip and fall - from the looks of your tumbler, it won't be a problem on yours). In shooting NSSA or range shooting, I capped at full cock and that shouldn't present a problem as Steve and others have and will point out.

If you are going to hunt with it, you will have to full cock it, place your cap on and then very carefully lower the hammer in to the half cock position.

I have a repro 1855 rifled musket (made by Armi-Sport if I remember correctly?). The lock on that is nothing like an original - it has a completely different feel and the geometry of the tumbler is also different from an original. I ended up replacing the tumbler on it with a tumbler out of a 45-70 that fit it and had the full cock and half cock notches in a better location than what came with the rifle.

I would just go ahead and shoot your Zouave and enjoy it. If down the road, the half-cock position really bugs you, you could have someone like Lodgewood Mfg. or S & S replace the tumbler and tune your lock so that the half cock allowed you to cap. They do a lot of custom work for NSSA shooters but you really should be fine as long as you are careful when lowering your hammer to half cock for hunting, etc. At the range, you can cap at full cock - keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot and then just go ahead when you're ready.

As always, just be safe and keep your rifle pointed in a safe direction all of the time. You'll be fine and you'll enjoy shooting that Zouave!

[bedbugbilly]

oldknotty - I forgot to mention this . . . .

In years past .. . . I have worked on many original rifles and shotguns (civilian styles and converted Civil War muskets made in to shotguns) which virtually had no half cock notch in the tumbler or else it was worn so much that it would not hold. It appeared to me when I worked on these that the original owners either capped them at the time they were going to shoot (as in target shooting) or else they capped them and then lowered the hammer down on the cap (which would be a extreme safety hazard).

Personally, I don't want a percussion rifle/pistol/shotgun that doesn't have a half cock position as I want "space" between the hammer and cap if capped and put on half-cock. There might not be space enough to cap on half-cock (as with your rifle) but at least the weapon can be capped on full cock and the hammer carefully lowered to half-cock for hunting purposes.

I just mention this so you know that many of the reproductions are no different that some originals that I have worked on and run across that couldn't be capped in the half cock position. They will function just fine - you just need to be careful if you cap and lower to the half cock position as in hunting scenarios, etc.

Good luck and have fun!

[oldknotty]

Thanks to all you guys that took the time to explain things to me I REALLY appreciate that it is what makes this hobby fun .I am going to go and shoot my Zouave at the range in a safe and creation manner thanks to you 'all
Martin aka oldknotty