New Publication: The Training Log Book

Rob Pincus · January 2, 2009, 06:46 PM

Today I received the first copies of The Training Log Book.

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This book, subtitled "...and Collected Essays on Training", features contributions from over 30 world class instructors in response to the question "What advice do you have for someone who is interested in, attending, looking for or evaluating defensive training?"

The second half of the 226 page hardcover book has pages designed to give you an organized way to log your training courses with sections for various items such as location, topics covered, classmates, equipment used and instructor signature & comments.

Contributing Instructor-Writers:
Vaughn Baker, Michael Bane, Steve Barron, Tony Blauer, Frank Borelli, John Brown, Paul Castle, John Chapman, Craig Douglas, John Farnam, Tom Givens, Paul Haberstroh, Denny Hansen, Gila Hayes, Marty Hayes, Mike Janich, Tiger McKee, Gary Meares, Peter Moll, Ken Murray, Kent O’Donnel, Tim O’Rourke, Troy Price, Tony Scotti, Clint Smith, Randy Smith, Dr. Robert Smith, Dave Spaulding, Andy Stanford, Colin Tinnin, Mark Warren and James Yeager.

For more information and the text from Ken Murray's foreword, see This Article.

The book will be shipping to customers next week, the pre-order discount will remain available for the next 24 hours or so ($19.95 instead of $24.95) HERE.

Below is a rough sample of what the log pages look like:

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-RJP

Marty Hayes · January 3, 2009, 10:58 AM

I think this was/is a great idea Rob, (which is why I participated in it). What should not be lost, is the possibility of having your training records, and the essays in the book, admitted into evidence for a jury to scrutinize at your murder/manslaughter/assault trial. I am not kidding folks.

A jury has the right to view the facts as they unfolded through the eyes of the defendant. If you can convince the judge that you precieved the events based on your training and education, the judge then has the duty to admit the information into evidence, and your attorney can explore your thought process via what is in the book.

With that in mind, don't write anything in the book that can be used against you in court.

Rob Pincus · January 3, 2009, 01:03 PM

Great Point, Marty. It is important. Most see this as a huge positive, especially for the armed professionals who already know that they are counting on being able to show that he/she "responded as trained".
Using a log (this or any other) to consistently document training can certainly help during the aftermath.

Thanks again for your contribution!

-RJP

Marty Hayes · January 3, 2009, 02:30 PM

You are very welcome. The nice thing about your book, is that it is bound. No one can suggest you made up some notes later, after the incident, if the notes you took during class are properly documented. As an instructor myself, I would be happy to sign student's books, and can't think that anyone else would have a problem with it.

See you at SHOT.

Marty

quinn2187 · January 4, 2009, 05:21 PM

maybe i am confused, and that is possible. but are you saying that a book of notes, that is not governed by any legitament organization, is going to make you an expert witness in your own trial?

A/C Guy · January 4, 2009, 05:31 PM

The short answer is "Yes."

Ever notice that a police officer always sits after a traffic stop and writes his story immediately. Then in court he reads his account, but the accused driver gives his version from memory. That is the main reason why the judge almost always takes the cop's word over the driver's word. Both swore to tell the truth, but only one has a written account of what happened. Therefore, the judge chooses the written version over the memory based version.

quinn2187 · January 4, 2009, 06:06 PM

thats not true. at least here where i have my trials. the judges basicaly use one word against the other unless you have cooborating evidence, like your partners testimony. and i think that a self written log not governed by any agency would have to great a potential to backfire on the defendant.

Don P · January 4, 2009, 08:12 PM

Think I'll wait to see how this unfolds and how far off topic it goes. Also want to see some of the off the wall replies

Rob Pincus · January 4, 2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

maybe i am confused, and that is possible. but are you saying that a book of notes, that is not governed by any legitament organization, is going to make you an expert witness in your own trial?

Not an expert witness.... the book would merely represent documentation of your training experience. This may or may not be helpful in any particular case. If nothing else, it would serve as a reminder to you for the when/where/who/what of the training that you used.

Most armed professionals have some record of their training in one form or another. Snipers, explosive breachers and other specialists keep very specificlogs of their training.

This book is designed to give you a simple way to do that for a variety of reasons. Marty was simply addressing one.

-RJP

Marty Hayes · January 5, 2009, 01:13 PM

"maybe i am confused, and that is possible. but are you saying that a book of notes, that is not governed by any legitament organization, is going to make you an expert witness in your own trial?"

Not an expert, but documentation that you knew a certain topic at the time of your incident. For example, if you knew about the lethality of edged weapons and shot an individual who was threatening you with a knife, but was too far to actually cut you, AND you had in your training log that you performed the Tueller drill at LFI-1, then it is likely you could speak to that knowledge at trial.

quinn2187 · January 5, 2009, 07:03 PM

ok i could see that. i still see it being used in a "according to your own records you are trained to know better than your actions" kind of thing. and yes professionals records are kept by their departments/branches/units. what i would call records that are governed by a credible agency, not something kept on my bookshelf. and they are kept for the department/branch/units liability, not your liability.

quinn2187 · January 5, 2009, 07:05 PM

and if YOUR on trial you are better off paying for a true expert witness to testify as to what a guy with a knife x number of feet away can do to you.

Marty Hayes · January 6, 2009, 02:05 PM

quinn:

If you cannot document your knowledge of the Tueller drill, Dennis Tueller won't be able to come to court and serve as an expert in your case.

quinn2187 · January 6, 2009, 03:16 PM

sure he will, expert witnesses testify that the threat is a real one and that it could have caused serious physical harm or death and thats why the need for leathal force was needed. plus they like the money.

UltraTacky · January 10, 2009, 09:40 AM

Back to the original post, I just received the two copies I ordered, one for myself and one as a gift. I am very pleased. The essays alone are worth the price of the book.

The logbook is hardcover and appears very durable. After the essays there are a hundred plus pages for entries, laid out in the format shown in the original post/link. While laid out for more formal training, there is no reason that they can't be used for any range trip.

This is going to replace a very raggedy spiral notebook that I've been using. I like to keep track of round counts for spring replacement purposes, notes on how various loads performed, and notes on what I did on a particular day and what I need to work on.

I used to scuba dive and logged all dives and training. Besides keeping a record for legal purposes and being a good training tool in itself, it's just plain fun to look at entries years later and recall the logged events.

Good job, Rob.

January 2, 2009, 06:46 PM	#1
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	New Publication: The Training Log Book Today I received the first copies of *The Training Log Book. . . This book, subtitled "...and Collected Essays on Training*", features contributions from over 30 world class instructors in response to the question "What advice do you have for someone who is interested in, attending, looking for or evaluating defensive training?" The second half of the 226 page hardcover book has pages designed to give you an organized way to log your training courses with sections for various items such as location, topics covered, classmates, equipment used and instructor signature & comments. Contributing Instructor-Writers: Vaughn Baker, Michael Bane, Steve Barron, Tony Blauer, Frank Borelli, John Brown, Paul Castle, John Chapman, Craig Douglas, John Farnam, Tom Givens, Paul Haberstroh, Denny Hansen, Gila Hayes, Marty Hayes, Mike Janich, Tiger McKee, Gary Meares, Peter Moll, Ken Murray, Kent O’Donnel, Tim O’Rourke, Troy Price, Tony Scotti, Clint Smith, Randy Smith, Dr. Robert Smith, Dave Spaulding, Andy Stanford, Colin Tinnin, Mark Warren and James Yeager. For more information and the text from Ken Murray's foreword, see This Article. The book will be shipping to customers next week, the pre-order discount will remain available for the next 24 hours or so ($19.95 instead of $24.95) HERE. Below is a rough sample of what the log pages look like: . -RJP __________________ I.C.E. Training Company. LinkedIn Profile for Rob Pincus

January 3, 2009, 10:58 AM	#2
Marty Hayes Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 1999 Posts: 244	I think this was/is a great idea Rob, (which is why I participated in it). What should not be lost, is the possibility of having your training records, and the essays in the book, admitted into evidence for a jury to scrutinize at your murder/manslaughter/assault trial. I am not kidding folks. A jury has the right to view the facts as they unfolded through the eyes of the defendant. If you can convince the judge that you precieved the events based on your training and education, the judge then has the duty to admit the information into evidence, and your attorney can explore your thought process via what is in the book. With that in mind, don't write anything in the book that can be used against you in court. __________________ Marty Hayes, President The Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, LLC. www.armedcitizensnetwork.org

January 3, 2009, 01:03 PM	#3
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	Great Point, Marty. It is important. Most see this as a huge positive, especially for the armed professionals who already know that they are counting on being able to show that he/she "responded as trained". Using a log (this or any other) to consistently document training can certainly help during the aftermath. Thanks again for your contribution! -RJP __________________ I.C.E. Training Company. LinkedIn Profile for Rob Pincus

January 3, 2009, 02:30 PM	#4
Marty Hayes Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 1999 Posts: 244	You are very welcome. The nice thing about your book, is that it is bound. No one can suggest you made up some notes later, after the incident, if the notes you took during class are properly documented. As an instructor myself, I would be happy to sign student's books, and can't think that anyone else would have a problem with it. See you at SHOT. Marty __________________ Marty Hayes, President The Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, LLC. www.armedcitizensnetwork.org

January 4, 2009, 08:12 PM	#8
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Think I'll wait to see how this unfolds and how far off topic it goes. Also want to see some of the off the wall replies __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

January 4, 2009, 05:21 PM	#5
quinn2187 Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2008 Location: ohio Posts: 110	maybe i am confused, and that is possible. but are you saying that a book of notes, that is not governed by any legitament organization, is going to make you an expert witness in your own trial?

January 4, 2009, 05:31 PM	#6
A/C Guy Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2007 Location: Apache Junction, Az Posts: 308	The short answer is "Yes." Ever notice that a police officer always sits after a traffic stop and writes his story immediately. Then in court he reads his account, but the accused driver gives his version from memory. That is the main reason why the judge almost always takes the cop's word over the driver's word. Both swore to tell the truth, but only one has a written account of what happened. Therefore, the judge chooses the written version over the memory based version.

January 4, 2009, 06:06 PM	#7
quinn2187 Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2008 Location: ohio Posts: 110	thats not true. at least here where i have my trials. the judges basicaly use one word against the other unless you have cooborating evidence, like your partners testimony. and i think that a self written log not governed by any agency would have to great a potential to backfire on the defendant.

January 5, 2009, 01:13 PM	#10
Marty Hayes Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 1999 Posts: 244	"maybe i am confused, and that is possible. but are you saying that a book of notes, that is not governed by any legitament organization, is going to make you an expert witness in your own trial?" Not an expert, but documentation that you knew a certain topic at the time of your incident. For example, if you knew about the lethality of edged weapons and shot an individual who was threatening you with a knife, but was too far to actually cut you, AND you had in your training log that you performed the Tueller drill at LFI-1, then it is likely you could speak to that knowledge at trial. __________________ Marty Hayes, President The Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, LLC. www.armedcitizensnetwork.org

January 5, 2009, 07:03 PM	#11
quinn2187 Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2008 Location: ohio Posts: 110	ok i could see that. i still see it being used in a "according to your own records you are trained to know better than your actions" kind of thing. and yes professionals records are kept by their departments/branches/units. what i would call records that are governed by a credible agency, not something kept on my bookshelf. and they are kept for the department/branch/units liability, not your liability.

January 5, 2009, 07:05 PM	#12
quinn2187 Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2008 Location: ohio Posts: 110	and if YOUR on trial you are better off paying for a true expert witness to testify as to what a guy with a knife x number of feet away can do to you.

January 6, 2009, 02:05 PM	#13
Marty Hayes Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 1999 Posts: 244	quinn: If you cannot document your knowledge of the Tueller drill, Dennis Tueller won't be able to come to court and serve as an expert in your case. __________________ Marty Hayes, President The Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, LLC. www.armedcitizensnetwork.org

January 6, 2009, 03:16 PM	#14
quinn2187 Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2008 Location: ohio Posts: 110	sure he will, expert witnesses testify that the threat is a real one and that it could have caused serious physical harm or death and thats why the need for leathal force was needed. plus they like the money.

January 10, 2009, 09:40 AM	#15
UltraTacky Member Join Date: March 11, 2007 Posts: 28	Back to the original post, I just received the two copies I ordered, one for myself and one as a gift. I am very pleased. The essays alone are worth the price of the book. The logbook is hardcover and appears very durable. After the essays there are a hundred plus pages for entries, laid out in the format shown in the original post/link. While laid out for more formal training, there is no reason that they can't be used for any range trip. This is going to replace a very raggedy spiral notebook that I've been using. I like to keep track of round counts for spring replacement purposes, notes on how various loads performed, and notes on what I did on a particular day and what I need to work on. I used to scuba dive and logged all dives and training. Besides keeping a record for legal purposes and being a good training tool in itself, it's just plain fun to look at entries years later and recall the logged events. Good job, Rob.