Is it really worth it? - Page 2

Uncle Buck · January 26, 2010, 09:57 AM

If your kids are old enough to pull a handle, let them decap the brass (saves you time/spend more time with the kids). Let them load the tumbler.

I guarantee you that if you get your kids involved in the reloading process (Of course you need to be safe. I would not let them prime or handle the powder.) they will enjoy shooting more. Because they 'made the bullet' they are shooting.

BUT, if you are just wanting blaster ammo, it may be cheaper to just buy it, depending how much you and your family shoot.

TimT · January 26, 2010, 10:39 AM

Quote:

ARs dont do well with reloads... or that is what I have heard.. dont have one myself.

I'll jump and the bandwagon and disagree with you. I know my AR does well with my handloads, and I obviously have one myself.

OP - you sound a bit like me. I don't compete, and I do shoot for my own enjoyment. Shooting the smallest possible groups is part of that.

I can make ammo that shoots great in my gun, for far less than I can buy most ammo (that doesn't shoot nearly as well.) Let's put it this way - if I don't get groups less than 1" (unless I'm using bulk FMJ bullets) I play more until I do. How many guys can get factory ammo that shoots sub MOA? Now, how many can do it inexpensively? Not me, but I can make ammo that shoots sub MOA inexpensively.

oneoldsap · January 26, 2010, 11:04 AM

If you are looking for a reason not to handload , you probably shouldn't handload . If you treat your time at the reloading bench as an inconvience you aren't going to be any good at it . I take great pride in the ammo I build , and I take great satisfaction in harvesting animals with my home made concoctions . My son is 32 years old and has been hunting deer since he was 11 and has been very successful . He has never fired a factory load , other than rimfires . Looks like reloading may turn into a family tradition , that I started in 1967 . My philosphy is ( if it isn't fun , don't do it , unless you're getting paid )

jaguarxk120 · January 26, 2010, 11:42 AM

You did not say what kind of tooling you have. Many times the older presses and dies are far better than what we have today.

Although todays offerings are some of the best since the blackpowder era. The older presses were built to last several lifetimes, other tooling the same.

You've entered into a hobby with in a hobby, now you can taylor your loads to shooting conditions. No need to use full power loadings just to punch a hole in a piece of paper. You can't really put a cost on reloading as many times the returns are not out there. I spent over $300 on a older used press, how do I justify it. I don't, but now I can enjoy using it knowing my son will use it in years to come. Don't put a cost on a shooting hobby, the enjoyment you will have with your son when going out to the range will be priceless

mongoose33 · January 26, 2010, 12:16 PM

I save about 50 percent on .223, *and* I produce better ammo than I can buy.

The argument that ARs don't do well with reloads? Spoken by someone w/o an AR, and most decidedly not the case for me.

You're miles ahead because you already have equipment.

This is my cost to reload .223:

Brass (Free--and I pick up others' brass too). I'm reloading it a lot, using the X-die from RCBS that prevents growth of the brass.

Bullets: about 7.5 cents (55gr FMJBT)

Primers: 3 cents

Powder: 8 cents

That totals 18.5 cents apiece. The very cheapest I can buy .223 ammo is 42 cents per round.

In 1000 rounds, that's a savings of (lessee--42 minus 18.5 is 23.5 times 100) $235.

Here's the thing, though: You really save w/ reloading when you buy components in bulk. Primers in 5000 or 10000 lots (bought online). Bullets in lots of 1000 or more. Powder in 4-pound or even better, 8-pound kegs.

The problem for most beginning reloaders is getting enough cash together to buy in these lots. An 8-pound keg of rifle powder, w/ shipping and hazmat, might run you $160. Primers in 5000-lots? Maybe $150. Bullets? $80 or thereabouts. So you have to factor in large bulk purchases to get down to the point where you do save.

If you're buying your powder in 1-pound cans, primers 100 at a time, bullets in lots of 100, you're going to find it more difficult to justify costwise.

And BTW: Where reloading really shines, IMO, is in handgun calibers. I "pay" myself from $30 to $65 per hour in reloading, in terms of the savings. Not bad, if you ask me.

the_right_reverend · January 26, 2010, 05:58 PM

They sell loaded ammo in stores?????

that may be dangerous

Give me 1000's of empty cases and case lots of bullets any day

It's a relaxing hobby and good for the soul and if you already have the equipmet and investing in once fired brass the saving is huge

James R. Burke · January 26, 2010, 07:14 PM

For myself it is worth it. Because it is a good clean hobby to start with. Knowing your getting the best you can out of your rifle or pistol, and yes using a crony so there is no guess on that f.p.s. End result a highly polished bullet that looks better then any other, and the most accurate you can get out of it. Keeping the cost down is always a A+, but that is not what I am looking for. It is having the best accurate bullet you can.

Doodlebugger45 · January 26, 2010, 07:54 PM

Quote:

They sell loaded ammo in stores????? that may be dangerous

Absolutely! It is kinda funny when you think about it. Even around here in gun-crazy Wyoming, I get some people wondering if shooting handloaded ammo is safe, yet they go out and shoot factory ammo all the time. Would you trust a round made by a factory turning out millions of rounds a year, staffed by workers making a bit more than minimum wage, totally put together by automatic machinery running day and night, and inspected by others who might or might not care? Or would you rather have your own stuff where you can buy the best brass, powder, bullets, inspect each component time and time again, weighing each charge down to 0.1 gr, seating each bullet down to 0.001" tolerance, and carefully put each and every round into the box before you feed it into your rifle?

I'm not slamming the ammo makers, but personally, I trust my own hands and eyes more than some anonymous factory to get it all done right.

Besides, I just like doing it.

**Unclenick** · January 26, 2010, 08:26 PM

Physikal,

It is harder to save reloading for the .223, same as with the 9 mm, than it is for a number of other chamberings, just because of the cheap ammo available. However, you can do rather better than you have thus far.

If you want plinking grade bullets that match or better the Wolf, then Midsouth will sell you a bag of 250 Hornady bulk 55 gr FMJ's for $0.073 each, plus shipping. You can get a small additional break at 6000 bullets.

You can also buy pulled-down WC844 powder from Jeff Bartlett for under $15/lb. That .223 powder winds up at about $0.05 per round for a 26 grain charge.

Wolf Primers are $25.50/1000 at Powder Valley, but you have the hazmat fee to contend with. However, combining orders can get you that if you know anyone who's interested?

I've seen once-fired brass that was not processed go for less than half what you are paying, so shop around a little more. It could be the rise in metals prices have been making that harder to find? I always start with new brass, since mine is for match loads, but there is nothing wrong with saving some money with the once-fired for less critical applications. The only place I disagree is on the 10% attrition rate. A lot of once-fired comes from full auto weaponry and is badly stretched. I would expect you may only get two to four reloads, but that depends on inspection and your ability to anneal case mouths and necks. But I think you're likely in for more expense in brass than you allowed.

Anyway, when you are sure about what you want to load, you can do some more careful shopping and I think you will net double the savings you are projecting now.

leadcounsel · January 26, 2010, 08:47 PM

I'm in the camp that you should only reload if:
1) You just absolutely love it and it's fun OR
2) You shoot expensive, unusual calibers or shoot competitively
3) You are unemployed, command a small salary/wage, or get the stuff for free.
4) You do it as a bonding exercise with friend/spouse/family.

IMHO, I cannot jusify spending countless hours setting up, researching, buying materials, and pressing bullets hours and hours and hours.... I just wouldn't enjoy it. I would prefer spending my time with family, friends, pets, other hobbies, etc. And you also have to factor liability (yours and others). I've had 1 kaboom and it was with someones' reloads. Not fun. Ammo makers have liability insurance, I certainly don't want to be liable for bad ammo due to my miscalculations.

testhop · January 26, 2010, 09:14 PM

PLAINSMAN 456
you are right on except you forgot it is also good for the mind .
it is a great time to relax and to think .
and to all who think it is cheaper to buy instead of reload
i would ask are you having a problum finding ammo now?

vranasaurus · January 26, 2010, 09:56 PM

I have heard a great many strange things but I have never heard anyone say that ARs don't like reloads until this thread.

I reload for:

1. Personal Satisfaction/ Enjoyment

2. Quality Ammunition

3. Cost Savings

You have to determine how much money you save and if that savings coupled with the quality of ammo that you make plus the enjoyment you get out of it is worth your time.

If you view reloading as a chore instead of a sub-hobby it probably isn't for you.

January 26, 2010, 09:57 AM	#26
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	If your kids are old enough to pull a handle, let them decap the brass (saves you time/spend more time with the kids). Let them load the tumbler. I guarantee you that if you get your kids involved in the reloading process (Of course you need to be safe. I would not let them prime or handle the powder.) they will enjoy shooting more. Because they 'made the bullet' they are shooting. BUT, if you are just wanting blaster ammo, it may be cheaper to just buy it, depending how much you and your family shoot. __________________ Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.

January 26, 2010, 05:58 PM	#31
the_right_reverend Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2008 Location: Sneads Ferry, Nc Posts: 232	They sell loaded ammo in stores????? that may be dangerous Give me 1000's of empty cases and case lots of bullets any day It's a relaxing hobby and good for the soul and if you already have the equipmet and investing in once fired brass the saving is huge __________________ It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men....

January 26, 2010, 08:26 PM	#34
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Physikal, It is harder to save reloading for the .223, same as with the 9 mm, than it is for a number of other chamberings, just because of the cheap ammo available. However, you can do rather better than you have thus far. If you want plinking grade bullets that match or better the Wolf, then Midsouth will sell you a bag of 250 Hornady bulk 55 gr FMJ's for $0.073 each, plus shipping. You can get a small additional break at 6000 bullets. You can also buy pulled-down WC844 powder from Jeff Bartlett for under $15/lb. That .223 powder winds up at about $0.05 per round for a 26 grain charge. Wolf Primers are $25.50/1000 at Powder Valley, but you have the hazmat fee to contend with. However, combining orders can get you that if you know anyone who's interested? I've seen once-fired brass that was not processed go for less than half what you are paying, so shop around a little more. It could be the rise in metals prices have been making that harder to find? I always start with new brass, since mine is for match loads, but there is nothing wrong with saving some money with the once-fired for less critical applications. The only place I disagree is on the 10% attrition rate. A lot of once-fired comes from full auto weaponry and is badly stretched. I would expect you may only get two to four reloads, but that depends on inspection and your ability to anneal case mouths and necks. But I think you're likely in for more expense in brass than you allowed. Anyway, when you are sure about what you want to load, you can do some more careful shopping and I think you will net double the savings you are projecting now. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 26, 2010, 09:14 PM	#36
testhop Junior Member Join Date: January 26, 2010 Posts: 3	reloading is good for the souland mind PLAINSMAN 456 you are right on except you forgot it is also good for the mind . it is a great time to relax and to think . and to all who think it is cheaper to buy instead of reload i would ask are you having a problum finding ammo now?

January 26, 2010, 11:04 AM	#28
oneoldsap Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2009 Location: I live in the foot of the Green Mountains of Vermont Posts: 1,602	If you are looking for a reason not to handload , you probably shouldn't handload . If you treat your time at the reloading bench as an inconvience you aren't going to be any good at it . I take great pride in the ammo I build , and I take great satisfaction in harvesting animals with my home made concoctions . My son is 32 years old and has been hunting deer since he was 11 and has been very successful . He has never fired a factory load , other than rimfires . Looks like reloading may turn into a family tradition , that I started in 1967 . My philosphy is ( if it isn't fun , don't do it , unless you're getting paid )

January 26, 2010, 11:42 AM	#29
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,620	You did not say what kind of tooling you have. Many times the older presses and dies are far better than what we have today. Although todays offerings are some of the best since the blackpowder era. The older presses were built to last several lifetimes, other tooling the same. You've entered into a hobby with in a hobby, now you can taylor your loads to shooting conditions. No need to use full power loadings just to punch a hole in a piece of paper. You can't really put a cost on reloading as many times the returns are not out there. I spent over $300 on a older used press, how do I justify it. I don't, but now I can enjoy using it knowing my son will use it in years to come. Don't put a cost on a shooting hobby, the enjoyment you will have with your son when going out to the range will be priceless

January 26, 2010, 12:16 PM	#30
mongoose33 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 228	I save about 50 percent on .223, and I produce better ammo than I can buy. The argument that ARs don't do well with reloads? Spoken by someone w/o an AR, and most decidedly not the case for me. You're miles ahead because you already have equipment. This is my cost to reload .223: Brass (Free--and I pick up others' brass too). I'm reloading it a lot, using the X-die from RCBS that prevents growth of the brass. Bullets: about 7.5 cents (55gr FMJBT) Primers: 3 cents Powder: 8 cents That totals 18.5 cents apiece. The very cheapest I can buy .223 ammo is 42 cents per round. In 1000 rounds, that's a savings of (lessee--42 minus 18.5 is 23.5 times 100) $235. Here's the thing, though: You really save w/ reloading when you buy components in bulk. Primers in 5000 or 10000 lots (bought online). Bullets in lots of 1000 or more. Powder in 4-pound or even better, 8-pound kegs. The problem for most beginning reloaders is getting enough cash together to buy in these lots. An 8-pound keg of rifle powder, w/ shipping and hazmat, might run you $160. Primers in 5000-lots? Maybe $150. Bullets? $80 or thereabouts. So you have to factor in large bulk purchases to get down to the point where you do save. If you're buying your powder in 1-pound cans, primers 100 at a time, bullets in lots of 100, you're going to find it more difficult to justify costwise. And BTW: Where reloading really shines, IMO, is in handgun calibers. I "pay" myself from $30 to $65 per hour in reloading, in terms of the savings. Not bad, if you ask me.

January 26, 2010, 07:14 PM	#32
James R. Burke Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Location: U.P. of Mich/Quinnesec Posts: 1,897	For myself it is worth it. Because it is a good clean hobby to start with. Knowing your getting the best you can out of your rifle or pistol, and yes using a crony so there is no guess on that f.p.s. End result a highly polished bullet that looks better then any other, and the most accurate you can get out of it. Keeping the cost down is always a A+, but that is not what I am looking for. It is having the best accurate bullet you can.

January 26, 2010, 08:47 PM	#35
leadcounsel Junior member Join Date: September 8, 2005 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 2,119	I'm in the camp that you should only reload if: 1) You just absolutely love it and it's fun OR 2) You shoot expensive, unusual calibers or shoot competitively 3) You are unemployed, command a small salary/wage, or get the stuff for free. 4) You do it as a bonding exercise with friend/spouse/family. IMHO, I cannot jusify spending countless hours setting up, researching, buying materials, and pressing bullets hours and hours and hours.... I just wouldn't enjoy it. I would prefer spending my time with family, friends, pets, other hobbies, etc. And you also have to factor liability (yours and others). I've had 1 kaboom and it was with someones' reloads. Not fun. Ammo makers have liability insurance, I certainly don't want to be liable for bad ammo due to my miscalculations.

January 26, 2010, 09:56 PM	#37
vranasaurus Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2008 Posts: 1,184	I have heard a great many strange things but I have never heard anyone say that ARs don't like reloads until this thread. I reload for: 1. Personal Satisfaction/ Enjoyment 2. Quality Ammunition 3. Cost Savings You have to determine how much money you save and if that savings coupled with the quality of ammo that you make plus the enjoyment you get out of it is worth your time. If you view reloading as a chore instead of a sub-hobby it probably isn't for you.