Casting 45 acp

Moiecol · September 24, 2013, 08:17 PM

My question is will I have to use gas check when I cast some 45 acp

David Bachelder · September 24, 2013, 08:53 PM

Probably not. Keep the velocity below 1200 fps (rule of thumb) and you will not need a gas check.

Side note:
Velocity limits can change with Alloy. Another rule of thumb .... harder bullets can handle more velocity than soft bullets.

The statement above is not always true. In lead bullets "fit is king".

Geezerbiker · September 24, 2013, 10:10 PM

I've shot a lot of cast bullets out of my M911a1 and I've never used a gas check. Some of these I bought but later on I started casting my own and I've shot a lot of those too.

The Lee 230g RN mold for this caliber drops near perfect bullets ever time. It's my favorite of all my Lee molds and it's almost as good as my best Lyman mold...

Tony

Axelwik · September 24, 2013, 11:14 PM

No gas check needed for 45 Auto. They're usually only needed for magnums and rifles, and even then not always.

If you get leading it's not because you don't have a gas check.

Size your bullets 1 or 2 thousandths over your gun's groove diameter, use soft lead for low velocities, and a harder alloy for higher velocities.

Good quality lube also helps. The crayon wax that commercial bullet casters use isn't always optimum... too hard for lower velocities like 45 Auto. They use it because it stays put when the bullets are piled into a box and transported in a hot truck.

noylj · September 25, 2013, 01:31 AM

Unless you can get the bullet above 1500fps, you won't need a gas check. Even then, I go to a harder alloy until I get up to about 1900fps, where I use a gas check.
For .45 Auto, you 'need' a rather soft bullet (6-12BHN).

Moiecol · September 25, 2013, 09:27 AM

Thanks for the information, that helps a bunch being that I started casting buckshot. I've read the books, but I do believe that you need others hands on experience

Mike / Tx · September 25, 2013, 06:17 PM

The softest alloy I use runs right in the 8'ish BHN range and the hardest runs around a 15BHN. Either of them and anything in between has shot wonderfully in my Colt 1911, as well as my .357, 41,& 44 mags, and my 45 Colt, within reason of course.

If I throw the soft stuff in the mags with upper end loads I get leading for sure, but not much harder and it goes away pretty quick. I do have some GC molds but for the most part I only shoot plain based bullets.

Ifishsum · September 26, 2013, 10:44 PM

The .45ACP should never need a gas check IMO. I cast both the Lee TL230-RN and TL230-FP (tumble lube style). I cast them with clip-on WW alloy mixed 2:1 with a softer alloy like range lead or stick-on WWs. Loading as-cast and tumbled with thinned Alox, they are accurate with no leading in either of my 1911s. The RN design feeds much more reliably in the old Colt GI model.

Doc Hoy · September 27, 2013, 02:21 PM

Can you tell me the diameter of those bullets?

I am going to start casting for my RIA 1911 and I need to know.

I like a lighter bullet so I'm thinking I will go with 200 grain unless someone out there tells me I should avoid it.

The jury comes in about even on 200 and 230. I like a round nose as well but only for nostalgia reasons.

Most everyone is telling me SWC with some votes for hollow point thrown in.

(It won't be for home defense. I have a cat for that.)

Moiecol · September 27, 2013, 09:05 PM

My molds are in, Saturday I'll get them ready and start making some bullets 45/230 gr. RN

Mike / Tx · September 28, 2013, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Ifishsum....
Can you tell me the diameter of those bullets?

I am going to start casting for my RIA 1911 and I need to know.

I like a lighter bullet so I'm thinking I will go with 200 grain unless someone out there tells me I should avoid it.

The jury comes in about even on 200 and 230. I like a round nose as well but only for nostalgia reasons.

Most everyone is telling me SWC with some votes for hollow point thrown in.

(It won't be for home defense. I have a cat for that.)
__________________
Doc

Doc, I just checked some of the Lee 452-230gr TL's I poured up a couple of weeks ago. The bases run .453" and the lube rings are running right at .4525" on average.

I use the 45/45/10 lube on these and do shove them through a Lee .452 sizing die whether they need it or not. They shoot pretty well for general target work. I also pour up a version of the #68 type SWC and size them to .452 as well. They shoot great loaded over a charge of Bullseye or Unique.

As for the HP's I threw you a picture of, well save that until your really into the casting and have things well in hand. The others will get you plenty of cheaper shooting and will knock paper out just as well.

Moiecol · September 29, 2013, 03:52 PM

Casting today was too cold, hot, etc. etc. but after a bit it started too work well. I used bee's wax which worked better than paraffin , no flame up

Moiecol · October 2, 2013, 07:50 PM

I have now 130 bullets, I was able to 80 done today under 45 minutes. I still have plenty of lead to melt, so I'll order the lube/size die soon

maillemaker · October 3, 2013, 01:47 PM

Those look like Lee Round Nose tumble lube bullets, yes?

Steve

Moiecol · October 3, 2013, 04:03 PM

They're round nose 230 gr. but have not lubed them yet, I still want to make a whole bunch before I lube

Mike / Tx · October 4, 2013, 07:02 AM

Can't make out just how well the TL rings formed. Not a biggie, and just throwing this out there.

If you find the rings aren't filling out well, dump them back in the pot and add in a 6 or so inch of 95/5 solder stir well and try again. You didn't spot your alloy, but if it is wheel weights then it only takes a little bit of solder to get mine pouring out nice and sharp. If they come out looking like they are sand blasted in appearance your running a bit hot.

Mine shoot very well with a dose of Alox or the 45/45/10 verson.

hdbiker · October 4, 2013, 08:30 AM

I use both of Lee's 200 gr. swc and 230 grain rn TL molds. Both drop bullets slightly undersized .451 or .4515 ,but accuracy is very good with a slight edge going to the 200 gr swc.I shoot pure range lead so the bullets drop a little heavy. I keep both bullets around 800 fps and the accuracy is very good. I've put around 8000 rounds of these threw my Springfield Loaded Target and the gun will still print around 2 inches at 50 feet from a rest. I own several other Lee molds and think for the money, their a great buy . hdbiker

maillemaker · October 4, 2013, 01:48 PM

Be aware, you may well have problems with the Lee Round Nose Tumble Lube bullets.

The problem is that the ogive nose of the bullet terminates in a step/shoulder where the lube grooves start. This shoulder is about where the brass case mouth ends up when the bullet is seated.

The end results is that you end up with a very significant step, about .027", as a result of the thickness of the brass and the depth of that step/shoulder on the bullet.

When your gun extracts a spent cartridge, the case rim will snag on that step. 3 things will happen, only one of them good:

1) The case will jump the step, and all is well.
2) The case will gouge the case mouth of the top round in the magazine, and jam.
3) The case will jump the step, but expend so much energy it will stall on top of the top round in the magazine, also resulting in a jam.

You can see my write up on this problem here:
http://www.forth-armoury.com/temp/bu...s/problems.htm
http://www.forth-armoury.com/temp/bu...lems/sizes.htm

Lee's recommended "solution" to my problem was to over-crimp the case mouth. However, the .45 ACP is supposed to headspace on the case mouth so if you over-crimp it it may fall too deeply into the barrel. Lee said this was not a problem since many .45s actually headspace on the extractor. This may be, but it is not the way it is supposed to be.

My solution to the problem was to switch to the Lee Truncated Cone tumble lube bullet. The Truncated Cone bullet has the cone of the bullet nose go straight to the outer diameter of the bullet with no step/shoulder, so the only step is the thickness of the brass. I have had no problems with this bullet.

The gun is a Ruger P90.

Steve

Moiecol · October 4, 2013, 02:27 PM

Thanks all that information it helps a bunch, always learning something new everyday. To keep myself humble I tell myself
( I'm a perfectionist, but I suck at it)

chris in va · October 7, 2013, 09:56 PM

I started with the TL and switched to the 'regular' Lee mold. I still tumble lube and get good results.

Caveat, you'll need to play with the seating depth specific for your gun's function. The ogive isn't the same as the original design and the full bullet diameter starts about 1/3 down from the top. Make sure it fully chambers without sticking in the leade.

September 24, 2013, 08:17 PM	#1
Moiecol Member Join Date: July 25, 2013 Posts: 17	Casting 45 acp My question is will I have to use gas check when I cast some 45 acp

September 24, 2013, 08:53 PM	#2
David Bachelder Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2011 Location: Trinity, Texas Posts: 636	Probably not. Keep the velocity below 1200 fps (rule of thumb) and you will not need a gas check. Side note: Velocity limits can change with Alloy. Another rule of thumb .... harder bullets can handle more velocity than soft bullets. The statement above is not always true. In lead bullets "fit is king". __________________ David Bachelder Trinity, Texas I load, 9mm Luger, 38 and 40 S&W, 38 Special, 357Magnum, 45ACP, 45 Colt, 223, 300 AAC, 243 and 30-06

September 24, 2013, 11:14 PM	#4
Axelwik Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2012 Location: Land of Enchantment Posts: 436	No gas check needed for 45 Auto. They're usually only needed for magnums and rifles, and even then not always. If you get leading it's not because you don't have a gas check. Size your bullets 1 or 2 thousandths over your gun's groove diameter, use soft lead for low velocities, and a harder alloy for higher velocities. Good quality lube also helps. The crayon wax that commercial bullet casters use isn't always optimum... too hard for lower velocities like 45 Auto. They use it because it stays put when the bullets are piled into a box and transported in a hot truck. Last edited by Axelwik; September 24, 2013 at 11:20 PM.

September 25, 2013, 06:17 PM	#7
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	The softest alloy I use runs right in the 8'ish BHN range and the hardest runs around a 15BHN. Either of them and anything in between has shot wonderfully in my Colt 1911, as well as my .357, 41,& 44 mags, and my 45 Colt, within reason of course. If I throw the soft stuff in the mags with upper end loads I get leading for sure, but not much harder and it goes away pretty quick. I do have some GC molds but for the most part I only shoot plain based bullets. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

September 27, 2013, 02:21 PM	#9
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Ifishsum.... Can you tell me the diameter of those bullets? I am going to start casting for my RIA 1911 and I need to know. I like a lighter bullet so I'm thinking I will go with 200 grain unless someone out there tells me I should avoid it. The jury comes in about even on 200 and 230. I like a round nose as well but only for nostalgia reasons. Most everyone is telling me SWC with some votes for hollow point thrown in. (It won't be for home defense. I have a cat for that.) __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

September 24, 2013, 10:10 PM	#3
Geezerbiker Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: Willamina, OR Posts: 1,908	I've shot a lot of cast bullets out of my M911a1 and I've never used a gas check. Some of these I bought but later on I started casting my own and I've shot a lot of those too. The Lee 230g RN mold for this caliber drops near perfect bullets ever time. It's my favorite of all my Lee molds and it's almost as good as my best Lyman mold... Tony

September 25, 2013, 01:31 AM	#5
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	Unless you can get the bullet above 1500fps, you won't need a gas check. Even then, I go to a harder alloy until I get up to about 1900fps, where I use a gas check. For .45 Auto, you 'need' a rather soft bullet (6-12BHN).

September 25, 2013, 09:27 AM	#6
Moiecol Member Join Date: July 25, 2013 Posts: 17	Thanks for the information, that helps a bunch being that I started casting buckshot. I've read the books, but I do believe that you need others hands on experience

September 26, 2013, 10:44 PM	#8
Ifishsum Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,033	The .45ACP should never need a gas check IMO. I cast both the Lee TL230-RN and TL230-FP (tumble lube style). I cast them with clip-on WW alloy mixed 2:1 with a softer alloy like range lead or stick-on WWs. Loading as-cast and tumbled with thinned Alox, they are accurate with no leading in either of my 1911s. The RN design feeds much more reliably in the old Colt GI model.

September 27, 2013, 09:05 PM	#10
Moiecol Member Join Date: July 25, 2013 Posts: 17	My molds are in, Saturday I'll get them ready and start making some bullets 45/230 gr. RN

September 29, 2013, 03:52 PM	#12
Moiecol Member Join Date: July 25, 2013 Posts: 17	Casting today was too cold, hot, etc. etc. but after a bit it started too work well. I used bee's wax which worked better than paraffin , no flame up

October 2, 2013, 07:50 PM	#13
Moiecol Member Join Date: July 25, 2013 Posts: 17	I have now 130 bullets, I was able to 80 done today under 45 minutes. I still have plenty of lead to melt, so I'll order the lube/size die soon

October 3, 2013, 01:47 PM	#14
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	Those look like Lee Round Nose tumble lube bullets, yes? Steve

October 3, 2013, 04:03 PM	#15
Moiecol Member Join Date: July 25, 2013 Posts: 17	They're round nose 230 gr. but have not lubed them yet, I still want to make a whole bunch before I lube

October 4, 2013, 07:02 AM	#16
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	Can't make out just how well the TL rings formed. Not a biggie, and just throwing this out there. If you find the rings aren't filling out well, dump them back in the pot and add in a 6 or so inch of 95/5 solder stir well and try again. You didn't spot your alloy, but if it is wheel weights then it only takes a little bit of solder to get mine pouring out nice and sharp. If they come out looking like they are sand blasted in appearance your running a bit hot. Mine shoot very well with a dose of Alox or the 45/45/10 verson. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

October 4, 2013, 08:30 AM	#17
hdbiker Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Posts: 297	Lee Molds I use both of Lee's 200 gr. swc and 230 grain rn TL molds. Both drop bullets slightly undersized .451 or .4515 ,but accuracy is very good with a slight edge going to the 200 gr swc.I shoot pure range lead so the bullets drop a little heavy. I keep both bullets around 800 fps and the accuracy is very good. I've put around 8000 rounds of these threw my Springfield Loaded Target and the gun will still print around 2 inches at 50 feet from a rest. I own several other Lee molds and think for the money, their a great buy . hdbiker

October 4, 2013, 01:48 PM	#18
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	Be aware, you may well have problems with the Lee Round Nose Tumble Lube bullets. The problem is that the ogive nose of the bullet terminates in a step/shoulder where the lube grooves start. This shoulder is about where the brass case mouth ends up when the bullet is seated. The end results is that you end up with a very significant step, about .027", as a result of the thickness of the brass and the depth of that step/shoulder on the bullet. When your gun extracts a spent cartridge, the case rim will snag on that step. 3 things will happen, only one of them good: 1) The case will jump the step, and all is well. 2) The case will gouge the case mouth of the top round in the magazine, and jam. 3) The case will jump the step, but expend so much energy it will stall on top of the top round in the magazine, also resulting in a jam. You can see my write up on this problem here: http://www.forth-armoury.com/temp/bu...s/problems.htm http://www.forth-armoury.com/temp/bu...lems/sizes.htm Lee's recommended "solution" to my problem was to over-crimp the case mouth. However, the .45 ACP is supposed to headspace on the case mouth so if you over-crimp it it may fall too deeply into the barrel. Lee said this was not a problem since many .45s actually headspace on the extractor. This may be, but it is not the way it is supposed to be. My solution to the problem was to switch to the Lee Truncated Cone tumble lube bullet. The Truncated Cone bullet has the cone of the bullet nose go straight to the outer diameter of the bullet with no step/shoulder, so the only step is the thickness of the brass. I have had no problems with this bullet. The gun is a Ruger P90. Steve Last edited by maillemaker; October 4, 2013 at 02:42 PM.

October 4, 2013, 02:27 PM	#19
Moiecol Member Join Date: July 25, 2013 Posts: 17	Thanks all that information it helps a bunch, always learning something new everyday. To keep myself humble I tell myself ( I'm a perfectionist, but I suck at it)

October 7, 2013, 09:56 PM	#20
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	I started with the TL and switched to the 'regular' Lee mold. I still tumble lube and get good results. Caveat, you'll need to play with the seating depth specific for your gun's function. The ogive isn't the same as the original design and the full bullet diameter starts about 1/3 down from the top. Make sure it fully chambers without sticking in the leade.