Powder(s) in factory loads...

tstone · February 8, 2007, 04:30 AM

Just wondering if there was any way to find out the various powders used in factory ammo. I started thinking about this when I noticed the differences in performance in some of my .44 ammo. Hornady factory loads with 240 gr. XTP's are dead nuts accurate and are listed at 1350 fps. Recoil is stiff but managable. I recently bought some PMC 240 gr. ammo. It was relativley cheap, so I mainly got it for the brass. This load is listed at 1300 fps. This stuff is stout!!

Muzzle blast is ferocious. The poi with these rounds suggest the 1300 fps is about right as compared to the Hornady rounds (1350 fps). The Hornady ammo kinda "feels" like H110. The PMC "feels" like I've been kicked by a mule! Is the difference in the "bang" from these two rounds in the powder used? Do ammo makers use powders not available to the public? Or is this top secret, highly confidential info? Just wonderin'....

snuffy · February 8, 2007, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Do ammo makers use powders not available to the public? Or is this top secret, highly confidential info? Just wonderin'....

Yes to #1. The ammo companies buy powder in huge lots from powder companies. They specify what they want to do with the powder, the powder companies try to match the burning rate to that specification. The ammo companies then test that powder to determine how much to use to get what they want. Sometimes the powder is not up to specs, for a given round they're loading, they can mix slower or faster lots of powder to get where they're going.

NONE of that powder is like what we get for reloading, what we get is called cannister grade powder. It is made as close to the same each time as the last lot was. That costs more because quality control costs money. It's good powder, but not like what the ammo companies load in their rounds. If you pull apart a factory round, the powder may look like one of the powders we have for reloading, but it's NOT the same.

As for #2, it's not a secret, just no way to answer the question.

cheygriz · February 8, 2007, 01:40 PM

Snuffy is spot on! The factories use different manufacturers, (low bidder) and work up new loads for every new lot of ammo.

Jim Watson · February 8, 2007, 01:47 PM

Factory bulk powders come off the same production lines as cannister handloading powders. It is just that the ammo company has test gear and can adjust loads to what they get. A given box of ammo might be loaded with something you could buy in a pound can, but it might be of the same chemistry and granulation but 10% different in burn rate. And you have no way of knowing which. They might get a lower bid and load the same calibre with an entirely different powder next month anyhow.

Back when Hercules made Red Dot shotgun powder, they said that every production run was tested and graded; they kept Red Dot 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, and 90 separate. The only thing cannistered and sold for handloading was Red Dot 30, all the other grades went to ammunition companies for factory loads.

tstone · February 9, 2007, 01:06 AM

Thanks guys. Good info.

February 8, 2007, 01:40 PM	#3
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	Snuffy is spot on! The factories use different manufacturers, (low bidder) and work up new loads for every new lot of ammo. __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

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February 8, 2007, 04:30 AM	#1
tstone Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: MS Posts: 25	Powder(s) in factory loads... Just wondering if there was any way to find out the various powders used in factory ammo. I started thinking about this when I noticed the differences in performance in some of my .44 ammo. Hornady factory loads with 240 gr. XTP's are dead nuts accurate and are listed at 1350 fps. Recoil is stiff but managable. I recently bought some PMC 240 gr. ammo. It was relativley cheap, so I mainly got it for the brass. This load is listed at 1300 fps. This stuff is stout!! Muzzle blast is ferocious. The poi with these rounds suggest the 1300 fps is about right as compared to the Hornady rounds (1350 fps). The Hornady ammo kinda "feels" like H110. The PMC "feels" like I've been kicked by a mule! Is the difference in the "bang" from these two rounds in the powder used? Do ammo makers use powders not available to the public? Or is this top secret, highly confidential info? Just wonderin'....

February 8, 2007, 01:47 PM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Factory bulk powders come off the same production lines as cannister handloading powders. It is just that the ammo company has test gear and can adjust loads to what they get. A given box of ammo might be loaded with something you could buy in a pound can, but it might be of the same chemistry and granulation but 10% different in burn rate. And you have no way of knowing which. They might get a lower bid and load the same calibre with an entirely different powder next month anyhow. Back when Hercules made Red Dot shotgun powder, they said that every production run was tested and graded; they kept Red Dot 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, and 90 separate. The only thing cannistered and sold for handloading was Red Dot 30, all the other grades went to ammunition companies for factory loads.

February 9, 2007, 01:06 AM	#5
tstone Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: MS Posts: 25	Thanks guys. Good info.