.308 reloading help...

[Flea21]

Ok, Here is my issue... Ive got no problem chambering a round and firing it in my Remington 700 but when I pull the bolt up and pull back, it wont pull back, I habe to use a rubber mallet and tap it lose and then it goes back smoothly and ejects the casing.

Im gonna shoot the remaining 44 rounds that I made off because they are match grade and amazingly accurate and consistent but this issue needs to be corrected on the next run of reloads.

Can anyone with .308 reloading knowledge that may have experienced this problem in their history of reloading for it can please help me out to correct this issue?? Thank You in advance btw.

[Kimber84]

Is this for real???

What load are you running

[Flea21]

Yes sir its for real... Im loading .308 Winchester.

The load im running is...

175gr SMK over 42.5gr IMR4064 and a Fereral GM210M Large Rifle Primer with an OAL of 2.800

[Kimber84]

What load are you running?

Sounds like your over max

[Kimber84]

Doesn't appear to be over max, have you compared fired brass to unfired?

[Brian Pfleuger]

It certainly sounds like something is causing a major pressure issue and I wouldn't shoot those rounds until it was solved.

First two thoughts, cases are too long and not allowing the bullet to release or charges aren't weighed correctly.

[Kimber84]

Agree w Brian. I would check your scales and pull some loads and check the powder that's in them. No way would I pull the trigger on any more of them.

[jmr40]

Something is wrong, I wouldn't shoot them. I don't usually load more than about 5 at a time when trying something new. The 1st 2 over the chronograph to see of bullet speed is where it is expected. If that is way off I don't even shoot the others. If bullet speed checks out the next 3 are for a group. If it doesn't work out I haven't wasted as much time pulling bullets and starting over. If it needs tweaking then I may load up another 5 with slightly more or less powder etc. If all is good, then I have my load.

Having a chronograph would be a tremendous help diagnosing the problem. If bullet speed is faster than it should be with that load it is over pressure and they should not be fired. If not you could have a gun issue. How does it work with factroy ammo? How many times has this brass been used, and has it been trimmed?

[Jimro]

Things we need to know to give you an well informed answer:

Does the rifle do this with factory loads?

Are you applying a quality grease to the bolt lugs of your Rem 700?

Did you trim your brass?

Do you have a factory chamber?

Are there any scratches on the brass after extraction? On the sides or in the rim?

How new is your rifle?

How many reloads on your brass?

When was the last time you tested your scale?

Are you measuring 2.800 off of the ogive or off of the tip?

Will your rifle extract an unfired round without issue?

Does the bolt handle raise easily or does it require the mallet?

Is it only the rearward movement that requires the mallet?

Jimro

[Flea21]

Originally Posted by Jimro

Things we need to know to give you an well informed answer:

Does the rifle do this with factory loads?

Are you applying a quality grease to the bolt lugs of your Rem 700?

Did you trim your brass?

Do you have a factory chamber?

Are there any scratches on the brass after extraction? On the sides or in the rim?

How new is your rifle?

How many reloads on your brass?

When was the last time you tested your scale?

Are you measuring 2.800 off of the ogive or off of the tip?

Will your rifle extract an unfired round without issue?

Does the bolt handle raise easily or does it require the mallet?

Is it only the rearward movement that requires the mallet?

Jimro

In response to your questions...

No.
Yes.. TW25
Yes
Yes
No
10Mos, 12rds down range
This is the 1st reload
A couole months ago
The tip
-Havent tested that yet-
Yes
Yes

Lemme know your thoughts please?

[trobin]

What's the history on the brass?

[Flea21]

Once fired from bolt action rifles... PPU

[Powderman]

Ah-ha!

PPU brass (Prvi Partizan) is actually military (NATO) spec brass. Your load may be safe in regular .308 Winchester brass, but the Prvi brass is thicker--thus, higher pressures are generated.

Try your loads again, this time in commercial (Federal, Remington, Hornady, etc.) brass.

[Fire_Moose]

Good to know. I got some ppu waiting to be processed. Only thing I've heard about it is its good stuff.

[Flea21]

Im awaiting Jimro's response.

[Brian Pfleuger]

First thing is to calibrate your scale. It should be verified EVERY time you use it.

I highly doubt that case capacity in itself is the cause. I can find no reliable reference to Prvi brass having a significantly lower capacity than other brands. Most folks compare it to Lapua, which does tend to have a slightly lower capacity but it's not huge. Most brand are reported around 56-56.5 while Lapua is reported around 55.0

A 1.0gr difference in water capacity would only amount to roughly 0.6gr powder difference to maintain the same pressure.

Possibly, if you're chamber is on the small side and your brass is on the small side, you might be getting higher pressure than expected. If your barrel grooves are also on the small side, that could increase pressure yet more.

However, since you don't have problems with factory loads, I doubt that any of those gun related issues are true.

I'm betting on powder measurement issues.

[Scottish Highlander]

Flea21,

Post a pic of your fired brass, some of the experts on here might identify more with a picture....

IMR website is showing minimum load starting at 41.5 gr progressing up to 45.6 max as a compressed load with 175 grain bullets.

Regards Jamie

[Jimro]

Flea21,

Ok, since your bolt handle can be raised easily, and it is only the rearward motion of the bolt that needs mallet love I've got an idea of what MIGHT be going on. If it were a serious overpressure issue I would expect a hard bolt lift.

When you pull the trigger, the round goes off as normal, but for some reason the brass isn't springing back enough. When you raise the bolt handle the extractor is not engaging the rim at all until you try to pull back, then the brass is "stuck" in the chamber.

Since you don't have pressure signs on the primer and this extraction issue doesn't happen with commercial ammo, I'm guessing the PPU brass is the problem. You didn't anneal before loading I'm guessing?

I would also try cleaning the heck out of your chamber. I don't think it's the problem, but it wouldn't hurt.

And before you shoot the remaining 44 rounds, I'd reload a few of the empty brass, but anneal them first to see if that fixes the problem (41.5, 42, and 42.5gr of powder). If it does, you are good to go, if it doesn't, let us know.

Jimro

[Flea21]

Originally Posted by Jimro

Flea21,

Ok, since your bolt handle can be raised easily, and it is only the rearward motion of the bolt that needs mallet love I've got an idea of what MIGHT be going on. If it were a serious overpressure issue I would expect a hard bolt lift.

When you pull the trigger, the round goes off as normal, but for some reason the brass isn't springing back enough. When you raise the bolt handle the extractor is not engaging the rim at all until you try to pull back, then the brass is "stuck" in the chamber.

Since you don't have pressure signs on the primer and this extraction issue doesn't happen with commercial ammo, I'm guessing the PPU brass is the problem. You didn't anneal before loading I'm guessing?

I would also try cleaning the heck out of your chamber. I don't think it's the problem, but it wouldn't hurt.

And before you shoot the remaining 44 rounds, I'd reload a few of the empty brass, but anneal them first to see if that fixes the problem (41.5, 42, and 42.5gr of powder). If it does, you are good to go, if it doesn't, let us know.

Jimro

Ok Jimro..

Ill try a few different things and get back with you on this. It is over pressure but youre right that its not by much although imr load data has me well withing the safe zone but obviously thats not what is showing here.

[Jimro]

Flea21,

With obvious overpressure I expect a hard bolt lift as the brass is squeezed against the bolt face and the web is expanded to engage the extractor. Since you are reporting a normal bolt lift it means that there is not a huge amount of contact between the bolt face, extractor, and brass. Evidently the ejector button is working with the natural brass springback to provide decent clearance.

Are you seeing obvious ejector wipe? To me that is generally the first sign I'm getting close to max pressure.

Jimro

[Flea21]

Originally Posted by Jimro

Flea21,

With obvious overpressure I expect a hard bolt lift as the brass is squeezed against the bolt face and the web is expanded to engage the extractor. Since you are reporting a normal bolt lift it means that there is not a huge amount of contact between the bolt face, extractor, and brass. Evidently the ejector button is working with the natural brass springback to provide decent clearance.

Are you seeing obvious ejector wipe? To me that is generally the first sign I'm getting close to max pressure.

Jimro

Jimro.. send me a pm please and we can discuss further. Thx.

[Flea21]

Thanx Jimro... Ill be posting some photos of the 6 rounds I fired sometime later this evening, im at a baseball game right now.

[Flea21]

Ok following are some photos I took of the fired casings... First 2 photos are 6 casings of PPU factory loads that gave no issues and the other two photos in my next post are of the reloaded PPU brass that gave me issues with the bolt not moving rearward eithout a tap from a rubber mallet... Jimro, lemme know your thoughts.. Thank You.

[Flea21]

This Is the trouble loads...

[Brian Pfleuger]

Those primers look to be severely flattened.

The two on the right and one over from the left look relatively normal, see the rounded edges?

The rest are very flat.

If that brass has beveled primer pockets, you'd most likely find that the primers are also "mushroomed" into the exact shape of the pocket.

Indications are that you have a MAJOR pressure issue.