Agreed to purchase an ASP in Dade City, Florida

Doc Hoy · November 20, 2011, 12:03 PM

Happened into a "We Buy Guns and Gold" shop during my last trip to Florida. I was on the way to the airport, didn't have cash and the operator doesn't do charge cards. So I had to just agree to come back. The guy seems honest so I think the pistol will still be there.

Guy had two BP revolvers, both in .36. One of them is an ASP Sheriff's model in 1851 pattern, steel frame and in pretty good shape. The other is a very similar revolver but from C.O.M. The vendor permitted me to take both of the pistols apart. The C.O.M. arbor is loose and the cylinder shows turn marks. Probably will need nipples.

I opted for the ASP and the guy agreed to take $70.00 for it.

I could not take it along because I certainly could not take it on the plane and didn't have the time to go get cash. So he is holding it for me until I drive down which happens over Thanksgiving week end.

This pistol (the ASP) has a lanyard ringon the grip frame. I have not seen a revolver of this type with such a feature. I am thinking perhaps it is an after market addition. That would be interesting but not of any special value.

So the question is, has anyone seen such a variant of this pistol from the factory or from a distributer? Is it possible I have stumbled upon a super rare edition which is worth enough to buy me three Second Gen Colts or four ROAs?

Historians, help out here. BPREVOLVER if you are out there, I invite your learned counsel.

ak-kev · November 20, 2011, 12:33 PM

That's funny Doc. I live 30 min from Dade City and frequently visit there. If I would have seen it I would have bought it as I'm looking for a 1851 in the sheriffs configuration. Good luck with the purchase.

Doc Hoy · November 20, 2011, 01:25 PM

..The C.O.M. is still there as far as I know.

As I described, it needs a little work.

BTW,

I pass by Lakeland once or twice a month on the wayto Saint Leo.

OutlawJoseyWales · November 20, 2011, 11:13 PM

Ha, I go to Dade City every week and have never stopped at that place. My loss I guess.
I'll be there tomorrow though.

Doc, what are you doing at St. Leo? It truly is a small world, amazing.
OJW

Fingers McGee · November 20, 2011, 11:59 PM

I do believe that there were some ASP Navies that had lanyard rings on them. I had a Navy Sheriffs model a bunch of years ago that had the hole in the backstrap for a lanyard ring; but no ring.

Doc Hoy · November 21, 2011, 06:40 AM

I am the Chair of the Administrative Studies Department and the only Chair who does not reside in Fl. I have an office in Chespeake and an office at the campus.

What is your association with the college?

Doc Hoy · November 21, 2011, 06:46 AM

Hmmm, interesting.

I wonder about a historical prototype. I don't remember seeing one in the little bit of reading and looking at pictures I have done.

But as we are painfully aware, a vivid imagination is an integral part of the BP weapon market.

OutlawJoseyWales · November 21, 2011, 09:12 AM

Love the, "vivid imagination" of B.P. world. The "historical?" part of B.P. revolvers is also a lot of fun. Of course, as a southerner who was trained to ride and shoot-as we all were, I've been around guns all my life.
However, I've only been around percussion revolvers for the last few years.

A few weeks ago, while at the range, I was going back and forth between my B.P's and cartridge revolvers. I shot up a box of 50 with a '73 clone and realized how the papar punchin' without all the "trouble, smoke, bad caps, slow loading etc" was just simply not as interesting. The difficulty of getting one of these ol' smokepoles to fire is part of the allure, along with the "history" part.

Doc, I'm not connected to St. Leo, just live in the area, know people who work in various areas of the school, and a few students.

OJW

Doc Hoy · November 21, 2011, 11:59 AM

I was going to relate this to the rest of the group as well:

I had a chance to get to an auction which is held every Wednesday evening. Actually it is noon Wednesdays but the firearms start at 7:00 pm.

As an out-of-state guy I can only bid on the black powder stuff.

This auction is on Gall Boulevard in Zephyr Hills. The evening I was there they had an awful lot of very interesting stuff.

On the other hand I was disappointed in the selection of firearms. Much of it was in only fair condition.

There was only one black powder pistol.

It was a .44 1851 Navy from Pietta with the trigger screw missing. Apart from that the pistol seemed pretty good. Needed some TLC but with that and a screw it could have been a pretty good revolver. (Steel frame)

It was in a box which seemed to imply that the pistol was a commemerative.

Nice buckle, print inside the lid of a Confederate scene. I think also an emblem from a hat.

But I think the revolver that was being sold was not the original commemerative. Just didn't seem right. Just a run-of-the-mill Pietta 1851.

The thing went for $120.00. I was done bidding at $85.00.

Anyway, for those of you who live close or get through from time to time, it is worth a look.

Bill Akins,

Hudson is not too far from Z.H.

Also Kev,

Might be close to you.

bprevolver · November 21, 2011, 03:21 PM

ASP is the only manufacturer that I know of that produced 1851 Navy revolvers with the lanyard ring. RPRCA has five of these revolvers in its collection, three Sheriff's Model and two regular 1851 Navy's. All have a half fluted cylinder. All were produced in 1972-1974. These are pretty rare. Prices I have seen are $250 to over $300. All were marked EUROARMS BRESCIA on barrel and ASP logo under loading lever.

Doc Hoy · November 21, 2011, 04:45 PM

Thanks again for wading in.

Nice to know the revolver is a bit rare. It is the Sheriff's model.

I did not check the date code but when I pick it up I will do so and if it has a code that is outside of the range you say I will let you know.

It is a steel frame, case hardened finish and half fluted cylinder as you say.

OutlawJoseyWales · November 21, 2011, 08:52 PM

Doc,
went by that little shop this afternoon. They still had the brass Sheriff's .44 1851 clone. I walked in and asked a young guy if they had any BP revolvers?
A voice from the backroom said that only had one left, and reminded the employee that the other one was already spoken for.

For just a brief second I tried to think up some kind of scam where I could get your pistol away from him. But alas, I just laughed and said I knew they had already set it aside for a gentleman from St. Leo and that's why I was in the shop. Was a funny moment though-Can't trust anybody these days.

It seemed heavy to me, it is an older brass and the nipples are very short.
I didn't get it, even though I thought the asking price of $60 was fair.
If it was steel, I'd have it in my grimmy little hands this very second. Although I have a few brassers, and I'm not against them, I mainly give them away for presents-they make awesome gifts.

Like I said, the nipples were very short, is this common for these old replicas? I'm pretty new to this stuff.

BTW, was I right that this is a fair price for that revolver?

Thanks again for the fun, OJW

Hawg · November 21, 2011, 09:50 PM

I'd have bought it and I don't care for brassers.

Doc Hoy · November 22, 2011, 02:03 AM

Remember...The arbor on the C.O.M. is loose. It turns in the recoil shield. That pistol is in need of some work so if you are inclined to go back, understand what you are buying.

I temporarily tightened the arbor on the pistol I already have by banging away on the locking pin. But I don't shoot it any more.

If I were to buy it, I would probably part it out.

Hawg · November 22, 2011, 05:00 AM

Shouldn't be too hard to fix with a drill press and a brass pin.

Doc Hoy · November 22, 2011, 05:36 AM

....an easy and inexpensive fix.

But this pistol would still need nipples and refinishing. And when you are done it is still a relatively low quality brass frame pistol with a repaired frame. You've got the cost of the pistol, twenty dollars in nipples, and the time involved in doing the work. Cabelas is selling a brass frame Pietta 1851 pattern for 129.00 plus shipping.

I did not ask the vendor what he wanted for the pistol because I was not interested. Sixty dollars is not a bad price but it is definitely wise to know more about the pistol before it goes out the door.

OutlawJoseyWales · November 22, 2011, 10:49 AM

Thanks Doc,
I'm gonna' pass on it. I thought the same thing, with new revolvers being so inexpensive, I'll just buy a new '51 sheriff sometime. Among other things, the low cost of B.P. revolvers is big draw. No pun intended.
If this model was unique, like the one you found with the lanyard loop, I would get it.
OJW

Doc Hoy · November 27, 2011, 03:24 PM

This is the ASP revolver purchased from the guy in Dade City.

He was open for business on Friday. Nice selection of used cartridge weapons.

From the photo you will note that the sight is missing from the revolver. I have one so will not be a big deal to replace it. I also noted that the pistol was imported by Hawes of LA. This is the second Hawes revolver I have. It has a date code of XXX so it fit within the range of times reported by Dr. Davis.

I ran a patch down the barrel and got a lot of crud out of the bore but did not uncover any pits. Chambers are similarly in good shape. The action is a little sluggish and the revolver will need a good overall cleaning.

In addition to the missing sight there are two small nicks on the grip and the cylinder has a turn ring on it. Apart from that the pistol is in great shape.

Hawg · November 27, 2011, 06:07 PM

Cool beans Doc.

Fingers McGee · November 27, 2011, 06:57 PM

Great find Doc!

**4V50 Gary** · November 27, 2011, 10:34 PM

Looks neat with that lanyard ring. Good score.

ak-kev · November 28, 2011, 06:18 AM

Yea, I agree. I like it. Good job.

OutlawJoseyWales · November 28, 2011, 02:16 PM

That's cool looking Doc, very unique.

What many don't know is that Dade City isn't anywhere near Dade County and Miami. I get asked if I live near Miami all the time.
Practically no one outside of our area knows of Major Dade, the ambush and massacre, nor even the Seminole Wars. But they certainly know where Dade County is.

Doc Hoy · November 28, 2011, 04:16 PM

It is a good point you make.

I am trying to buy a condo there as a summer home since I will be traveling there about once or twice a month. I hate living out of a hotel.

This may permit me to claim Florida residency and avoid the income tax in Virginia.

zullo74 · November 29, 2011, 08:27 AM

Doc,

I live in Florida. A second home here does not establish residency. It must be your primary residency to LEGALLY establish residency.

November 20, 2011, 12:03 PM	#1
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Agreed to purchase an ASP in Dade City, Florida Happened into a "We Buy Guns and Gold" shop during my last trip to Florida. I was on the way to the airport, didn't have cash and the operator doesn't do charge cards. So I had to just agree to come back. The guy seems honest so I think the pistol will still be there. Guy had two BP revolvers, both in .36. One of them is an ASP Sheriff's model in 1851 pattern, steel frame and in pretty good shape. The other is a very similar revolver but from C.O.M. The vendor permitted me to take both of the pistols apart. The C.O.M. arbor is loose and the cylinder shows turn marks. Probably will need nipples. I opted for the ASP and the guy agreed to take $70.00 for it. I could not take it along because I certainly could not take it on the plane and didn't have the time to go get cash. So he is holding it for me until I drive down which happens over Thanksgiving week end. This pistol (the ASP) has a lanyard ringon the grip frame. I have not seen a revolver of this type with such a feature. I am thinking perhaps it is an after market addition. That would be interesting but not of any special value. So the question is, has anyone seen such a variant of this pistol from the factory or from a distributer? Is it possible I have stumbled upon a super rare edition which is worth enough to buy me three Second Gen Colts or four ROAs? Historians, help out here. BPREVOLVER if you are out there, I invite your learned counsel. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

November 20, 2011, 01:25 PM	#3
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Well....., ..The C.O.M. is still there as far as I know. As I described, it needs a little work. BTW, I pass by Lakeland once or twice a month on the wayto Saint Leo. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

November 20, 2011, 11:59 PM	#5
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	I do believe that there were some ASP Navies that had lanyard rings on them. I had a Navy Sheriffs model a bunch of years ago that had the hole in the backstrap for a lanyard ring; but no ring. __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

November 21, 2011, 06:40 AM	#6
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	OJW I am the Chair of the Administrative Studies Department and the only Chair who does not reside in Fl. I have an office in Chespeake and an office at the campus. What is your association with the college? __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

November 21, 2011, 06:46 AM	#7
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Fingers Hmmm, interesting. I wonder about a historical prototype. I don't remember seeing one in the little bit of reading and looking at pictures I have done. But as we are painfully aware, a vivid imagination is an integral part of the BP weapon market. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

November 20, 2011, 12:33 PM	#2
ak-kev Member Join Date: March 10, 2009 Location: Lakeland Florida Posts: 73	That's funny Doc. I live 30 min from Dade City and frequently visit there. If I would have seen it I would have bought it as I'm looking for a 1851 in the sheriffs configuration. Good luck with the purchase.

November 20, 2011, 11:13 PM	#4
OutlawJoseyWales Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 237	Ha, I go to Dade City every week and have never stopped at that place. My loss I guess. I'll be there tomorrow though. Doc, what are you doing at St. Leo? It truly is a small world, amazing. OJW

November 21, 2011, 09:12 AM	#8
OutlawJoseyWales Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 237	Love the, "vivid imagination" of B.P. world. The "historical?" part of B.P. revolvers is also a lot of fun. Of course, as a southerner who was trained to ride and shoot-as we all were, I've been around guns all my life. However, I've only been around percussion revolvers for the last few years. A few weeks ago, while at the range, I was going back and forth between my B.P's and cartridge revolvers. I shot up a box of 50 with a '73 clone and realized how the papar punchin' without all the "trouble, smoke, bad caps, slow loading etc" was just simply not as interesting. The difficulty of getting one of these ol' smokepoles to fire is part of the allure, along with the "history" part. Doc, I'm not connected to St. Leo, just live in the area, know people who work in various areas of the school, and a few students. OJW

November 21, 2011, 11:59 AM	#9
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	OJW I was going to relate this to the rest of the group as well: I had a chance to get to an auction which is held every Wednesday evening. Actually it is noon Wednesdays but the firearms start at 7:00 pm. As an out-of-state guy I can only bid on the black powder stuff. This auction is on Gall Boulevard in Zephyr Hills. The evening I was there they had an awful lot of very interesting stuff. On the other hand I was disappointed in the selection of firearms. Much of it was in only fair condition. There was only one black powder pistol. It was a .44 1851 Navy from Pietta with the trigger screw missing. Apart from that the pistol seemed pretty good. Needed some TLC but with that and a screw it could have been a pretty good revolver. (Steel frame) It was in a box which seemed to imply that the pistol was a commemerative. Nice buckle, print inside the lid of a Confederate scene. I think also an emblem from a hat. But I think the revolver that was being sold was not the original commemerative. Just didn't seem right. Just a run-of-the-mill Pietta 1851. The thing went for $120.00. I was done bidding at $85.00. Anyway, for those of you who live close or get through from time to time, it is worth a look. Bill Akins, Hudson is not too far from Z.H. Also Kev, Might be close to you. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

November 21, 2011, 03:21 PM	#10
bprevolver Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 141	Lanyard Ring Revolvers ASP is the only manufacturer that I know of that produced 1851 Navy revolvers with the lanyard ring. RPRCA has five of these revolvers in its collection, three Sheriff's Model and two regular 1851 Navy's. All have a half fluted cylinder. All were produced in 1972-1974. These are pretty rare. Prices I have seen are $250 to over $300. All were marked EUROARMS BRESCIA on barrel and ASP logo under loading lever.

November 21, 2011, 04:45 PM	#11
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	BPREVOLVER Thanks again for wading in. Nice to know the revolver is a bit rare. It is the Sheriff's model. I did not check the date code but when I pick it up I will do so and if it has a code that is outside of the range you say I will let you know. It is a steel frame, case hardened finish and half fluted cylinder as you say. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

November 21, 2011, 08:52 PM	#12
OutlawJoseyWales Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 237	Doc, went by that little shop this afternoon. They still had the brass Sheriff's .44 1851 clone. I walked in and asked a young guy if they had any BP revolvers? A voice from the backroom said that only had one left, and reminded the employee that the other one was already spoken for. For just a brief second I tried to think up some kind of scam where I could get your pistol away from him. But alas, I just laughed and said I knew they had already set it aside for a gentleman from St. Leo and that's why I was in the shop. Was a funny moment though-Can't trust anybody these days. It seemed heavy to me, it is an older brass and the nipples are very short. I didn't get it, even though I thought the asking price of $60 was fair. If it was steel, I'd have it in my grimmy little hands this very second. Although I have a few brassers, and I'm not against them, I mainly give them away for presents-they make awesome gifts. Like I said, the nipples were very short, is this common for these old replicas? I'm pretty new to this stuff. BTW, was I right that this is a fair price for that revolver? Thanks again for the fun, OJW

November 21, 2011, 09:50 PM	#13
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	I'd have bought it and I don't care for brassers.

November 22, 2011, 02:03 AM	#14
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Caution OJW Remember...The arbor on the C.O.M. is loose. It turns in the recoil shield. That pistol is in need of some work so if you are inclined to go back, understand what you are buying. I temporarily tightened the arbor on the pistol I already have by banging away on the locking pin. But I don't shoot it any more. If I were to buy it, I would probably part it out. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath. Last edited by Doc Hoy; November 22, 2011 at 02:39 AM.

November 22, 2011, 05:00 AM	#15
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Shouldn't be too hard to fix with a drill press and a brass pin.

November 22, 2011, 05:36 AM	#16
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Correct.... ....an easy and inexpensive fix. But this pistol would still need nipples and refinishing. And when you are done it is still a relatively low quality brass frame pistol with a repaired frame. You've got the cost of the pistol, twenty dollars in nipples, and the time involved in doing the work. Cabelas is selling a brass frame Pietta 1851 pattern for 129.00 plus shipping. I did not ask the vendor what he wanted for the pistol because I was not interested. Sixty dollars is not a bad price but it is definitely wise to know more about the pistol before it goes out the door. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

November 22, 2011, 10:49 AM	#17
OutlawJoseyWales Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 237	Thanks Doc, I'm gonna' pass on it. I thought the same thing, with new revolvers being so inexpensive, I'll just buy a new '51 sheriff sometime. Among other things, the low cost of B.P. revolvers is big draw. No pun intended. If this model was unique, like the one you found with the lanyard loop, I would get it. OJW

November 27, 2011, 03:24 PM	#18
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Promised photo and subsequent reaction This is the ASP revolver purchased from the guy in Dade City. He was open for business on Friday. Nice selection of used cartridge weapons. From the photo you will note that the sight is missing from the revolver. I have one so will not be a big deal to replace it. I also noted that the pistol was imported by Hawes of LA. This is the second Hawes revolver I have. It has a date code of XXX so it fit within the range of times reported by Dr. Davis. I ran a patch down the barrel and got a lot of crud out of the bore but did not uncover any pits. Chambers are similarly in good shape. The action is a little sluggish and the revolver will need a good overall cleaning. In addition to the missing sight there are two small nicks on the grip and the cylinder has a turn ring on it. Apart from that the pistol is in great shape. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

November 27, 2011, 06:07 PM	#19
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Cool beans Doc.

November 27, 2011, 06:57 PM	#20
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	Great find Doc! __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

November 27, 2011, 10:34 PM	#21
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,838	Looks neat with that lanyard ring. Good score. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

November 28, 2011, 06:18 AM	#22
ak-kev Member Join Date: March 10, 2009 Location: Lakeland Florida Posts: 73	Yea, I agree. I like it. Good job.

November 28, 2011, 02:16 PM	#23
OutlawJoseyWales Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 237	That's cool looking Doc, very unique. What many don't know is that Dade City isn't anywhere near Dade County and Miami. I get asked if I live near Miami all the time. Practically no one outside of our area knows of Major Dade, the ambush and massacre, nor even the Seminole Wars. But they certainly know where Dade County is.

November 28, 2011, 04:16 PM	#24
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	OJW It is a good point you make. I am trying to buy a condo there as a summer home since I will be traveling there about once or twice a month. I hate living out of a hotel. This may permit me to claim Florida residency and avoid the income tax in Virginia. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

November 29, 2011, 08:27 AM	#25
zullo74 Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Posts: 374	Doc, I live in Florida. A second home here does not establish residency. It must be your primary residency to LEGALLY establish residency.