Is there a real difference in primers?

SoCalShooter · December 1, 2002, 12:59 PM

I've been reloading for a couple of years now. I load for .308 Win, .30-06, and .300 WM. When I started reloading I started with Winchester Large Rifle primers and never really tried anything else. So here is my question, is there a noticable difference with primers, say Federal or something else?

braindead0 · December 1, 2002, 01:36 PM

Yes..

;-)

The main difference I know of is sensitivity. Federal primers are more sensitive than any others I've tried (Win, Rem and CCI). This is a good thing for revolvers that hit a bit light (my wife's tracker), but a bad thing for military semi-auto's from what I understand.

If I remember correctly, CCI are the hardest, Win and then Fed. I'd put Remington between Win and Fed in sensitivity.

HSMITH · December 1, 2002, 01:41 PM

Yes, and the difference can be quite dramatic.

Be very careful with primer substitutions, drop down and work back up for safety.

sricciardelli · December 1, 2002, 02:18 PM

Yes...

SoCalShooter · December 1, 2002, 02:37 PM

The reason I asked this question is because most of the data I have found for my .308 Win uses Rem brass and Fed primers. I've been curious to know what the difference is. Thanks.

Kimber Kid · December 1, 2002, 02:38 PM

Yes, use Federals.

cheygriz · December 1, 2002, 11:24 PM

There is a difference. Remington 9 1/2 standard large rifle and 7 1/2 benchrest small rifle meet MilSpec. Other brands do not. CCI has special order primers available that meet MilSpec, but their regular production primers do not.

I've used nothing but Remington primers for over twenty years, and several hundred thousand loads without a single primer related problem.

Perhaps there are other primers as good as Remington, but I do not believe that there are any that are better.

rg1 · December 1, 2002, 11:36 PM

I've found that in more than one test with 30-06 loads that: Winchester LR is very slightly hotter than Reminton 9 1/2. Win LR consistently gives me a few feet per second more velocity. I also have found that CCI LR primers give a few feet per second less than Rem 9 1/2. CCI 200 usually are 20-40 fps less than RP9 1/2. Hence, as I am a Remington fan I prefer RP 9 1/2. This is my experience with the 30-06. Other powders, calibers, and conditions could yield different results. As has been said, when changing primers drop down the powder charge and work up. Others may argue with my results, but this is what I have experienced. I haven't used Federal except Fed 215 in a 300 Wea.

Ala Dan · December 2, 2002, 04:56 AM

Primer Dislikes- Winchester* Why? Handgun primer's seem
to be a bit over sized.

Likes- Federal Why? Easy to seat without problem's.

*Guess I could invest in a primer pocket reamer, uh?

Best Wishes,

vluc · December 5, 2002, 09:00 PM

Found that when i switched from Winchester small pistol primers to Federal I gained about 10 fps just with the switch.

Life Of Brian · December 5, 2002, 11:04 PM

I tried my first batch of Win. small pistol primers last weekend. They kept hanging up in my RCBS hand primer. I also noticed that I had to back off on the squeeze, I was actually flattening the primer. I have never had a problem feeding CCI primers, and they are definitely harder.

CHAINSAW · December 5, 2002, 11:37 PM

If you find primers that work well for you, check the lot# and beat a trail back to where you picked them up and buy more.

I have found that primers from brick to brick will change in performance somewhat in diferent lot#'s

I have found some really great loadings to only find out when I ran out of components from the batches I had, performance would change somewhat with the new lot# and would change just like your shot to shot results change with the weather.

Lost River Ballistics did a primer study to establish heat range and brisance(sp??) of all factory primers and found CCI 200's to be around the lowest in flash power or ignition. They had all the primers catogorized and were about to release the results, and decided to test again to make sure. They bought another batch of primers and subsequent testing showed the primers to move around in the chart with the standard CCI 200 now the hottest primer they tested. This throws all this test data down the "terlet" as Archie Bunker would say. That is why I have tried to buy in bulk if I find something I like. Though the little woman doesn't like me buying in bulk

Save Money?? Naw, I just shoot 5 times as much.

cheygriz · December 7, 2002, 02:55 AM

Chainsaw makes an excellent point. Primers that I use in great number, i.e. small pistol and small rifle, I buy in lots of 25k or even 50k. Those that I use less of, I still buy in lots of 10k.

And they're one whole helluva lot cheaper that way!

Get together with a bunch of guys from your gun club, preferably 20-30 folks, and ty to put together an order of 250k primers in one order. You'll get really great prices. (10.50 to 11.00/thousand) and if your gun club doesn't have an FFL, GET ONE!

You'll also get some great prices on powder if a bunch of you get together and order 100 pounds or more through your clubs' FFL.

Paul Fitz Jones · December 7, 2002, 05:58 PM

As a commercial reloader in the 70's, Remingtons were too expensive and were best used in States with heavy winter snow as they had the reputation of staying reliable in a rifle carried in and out of a hot cabin.
I preferred Federal and Winchester in large lots and in the thousands of automated and hand operated progressive reloaders I sold I recommended against CCI as they were the brand that caused the injuries from explosions in progressive reloaders. CCI's had out of round cups, variable cup heights, rough cup edges, high anvils, buildup of paper slivers from the paper boxes, unreliable ignition and cocked anvils. That was decades ago but I still refuse to use anything made by CCI.

cheygriz · December 8, 2002, 12:35 AM

Paul,

CCI has solved their QC problems years ago, but like you, I don;t use them. Doing commercial reloading in the late 70s and early 80s, we used Remingtons exclusively, in Dillon 1000s and later 1050s and the Ammoload machines.

Nothing else we tried served us as well as Remingtons, especially in the fully automated Ammoload machine. (RWS primers came close, though)

That's a large part of the reason that I use Remingtons exclusively for my personal reloading, and have been doing so for over 20 years.

WESHOOT2 · December 8, 2002, 07:07 PM

I use 'em all, except WSP and WSPM.

Remington primers are the smoothest in my production runs..............

December 1, 2002, 12:59 PM	#1
SoCalShooter Junior Member Join Date: October 5, 2002 Location: San Diego, CA. Posts: 9	Is there a real difference in primers? I've been reloading for a couple of years now. I load for .308 Win, .30-06, and .300 WM. When I started reloading I started with Winchester Large Rifle primers and never really tried anything else. So here is my question, is there a noticable difference with primers, say Federal or something else?

December 1, 2002, 01:36 PM	#2
braindead0 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2002 Location: Canton, Oh Posts: 896	Yes.. ;-) The main difference I know of is sensitivity. Federal primers are more sensitive than any others I've tried (Win, Rem and CCI). This is a good thing for revolvers that hit a bit light (my wife's tracker), but a bad thing for military semi-auto's from what I understand. If I remember correctly, CCI are the hardest, Win and then Fed. I'd put Remington between Win and Fed in sensitivity. __________________ DoD# 2223 Meum scapha volitare plenum anguillae

December 1, 2002, 02:18 PM	#4
sricciardelli Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2001 Location: Montana Posts: 489	Yes... __________________ http://stevespages.com/page8.htm

December 1, 2002, 02:37 PM	#5
SoCalShooter Junior Member Join Date: October 5, 2002 Location: San Diego, CA. Posts: 9	Thaks for the info... The reason I asked this question is because most of the data I have found for my .308 Win uses Rem brass and Fed primers. I've been curious to know what the difference is. Thanks.

December 1, 2002, 11:24 PM	#7
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	There is a difference. Remington 9 1/2 standard large rifle and 7 1/2 benchrest small rifle meet MilSpec. Other brands do not. CCI has special order primers available that meet MilSpec, but their regular production primers do not. I've used nothing but Remington primers for over twenty years, and several hundred thousand loads without a single primer related problem. Perhaps there are other primers as good as Remington, but I do not believe that there are any that are better. __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

December 1, 2002, 01:41 PM	#3
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	Yes, and the difference can be quite dramatic. Be very careful with primer substitutions, drop down and work back up for safety.

December 1, 2002, 02:38 PM	#6
Kimber Kid Junior Member Join Date: November 28, 2002 Posts: 12	Yes, use Federals.

December 1, 2002, 11:36 PM	#8
rg1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 1,125	My 2 Cents I've found that in more than one test with 30-06 loads that: Winchester LR is very slightly hotter than Reminton 9 1/2. Win LR consistently gives me a few feet per second more velocity. I also have found that CCI LR primers give a few feet per second less than Rem 9 1/2. CCI 200 usually are 20-40 fps less than RP9 1/2. Hence, as I am a Remington fan I prefer RP 9 1/2. This is my experience with the 30-06. Other powders, calibers, and conditions could yield different results. As has been said, when changing primers drop down the powder charge and work up. Others may argue with my results, but this is what I have experienced. I haven't used Federal except Fed 215 in a 300 Wea.

December 2, 2002, 04:56 AM	#9
Ala Dan Member in memoriam Join Date: August 13, 1999 Location: In The HOT, Humid, and Mu Posts: 6,116	Primer Dislikes- Winchester* Why? Handgun primer's seem to be a bit over sized. Likes- Federal Why? Easy to seat without problem's. *Guess I could invest in a primer pocket reamer, uh? Best Wishes,

December 5, 2002, 09:00 PM	#10
vluc Member Join Date: August 11, 2001 Posts: 53	Found that when i switched from Winchester small pistol primers to Federal I gained about 10 fps just with the switch. __________________ "You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today". Abraham Lincoln

December 5, 2002, 11:04 PM	#11
Life Of Brian Junior Member Join Date: September 6, 2002 Location: North Dakota Posts: 3	I tried my first batch of Win. small pistol primers last weekend. They kept hanging up in my RCBS hand primer. I also noticed that I had to back off on the squeeze, I was actually flattening the primer. I have never had a problem feeding CCI primers, and they are definitely harder.

December 5, 2002, 11:37 PM	#12
CHAINSAW Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 1999 Posts: 201	Buy In Bulk If you find primers that work well for you, check the lot# and beat a trail back to where you picked them up and buy more. I have found that primers from brick to brick will change in performance somewhat in diferent lot#'s I have found some really great loadings to only find out when I ran out of components from the batches I had, performance would change somewhat with the new lot# and would change just like your shot to shot results change with the weather. Lost River Ballistics did a primer study to establish heat range and brisance(sp??) of all factory primers and found CCI 200's to be around the lowest in flash power or ignition. They had all the primers catogorized and were about to release the results, and decided to test again to make sure. They bought another batch of primers and subsequent testing showed the primers to move around in the chart with the standard CCI 200 now the hottest primer they tested. This throws all this test data down the "terlet" as Archie Bunker would say. That is why I have tried to buy in bulk if I find something I like. Though the little woman doesn't like me buying in bulk Save Money?? Naw, I just shoot 5 times as much.

December 7, 2002, 02:55 AM	#13
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	Chainsaw makes an excellent point. Primers that I use in great number, i.e. small pistol and small rifle, I buy in lots of 25k or even 50k. Those that I use less of, I still buy in lots of 10k. And they're one whole helluva lot cheaper that way! Get together with a bunch of guys from your gun club, preferably 20-30 folks, and ty to put together an order of 250k primers in one order. You'll get really great prices. (10.50 to 11.00/thousand) and if your gun club doesn't have an FFL, GET ONE! You'll also get some great prices on powder if a bunch of you get together and order 100 pounds or more through your clubs' FFL. __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

December 7, 2002, 05:58 PM	#14
Paul Fitz Jones Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2002 Location: Sacramento California Posts: 266	Primer Quality As a commercial reloader in the 70's, Remingtons were too expensive and were best used in States with heavy winter snow as they had the reputation of staying reliable in a rifle carried in and out of a hot cabin. I preferred Federal and Winchester in large lots and in the thousands of automated and hand operated progressive reloaders I sold I recommended against CCI as they were the brand that caused the injuries from explosions in progressive reloaders. CCI's had out of round cups, variable cup heights, rough cup edges, high anvils, buildup of paper slivers from the paper boxes, unreliable ignition and cocked anvils. That was decades ago but I still refuse to use anything made by CCI. __________________ Paul Fitz Jones Retired and Loving It Industry Manufacturer Competitor Police Firearms Instructor

December 8, 2002, 12:35 AM	#15
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	Paul, CCI has solved their QC problems years ago, but like you, I don;t use them. Doing commercial reloading in the late 70s and early 80s, we used Remingtons exclusively, in Dillon 1000s and later 1050s and the Ammoload machines. Nothing else we tried served us as well as Remingtons, especially in the fully automated Ammoload machine. (RWS primers came close, though) That's a large part of the reason that I use Remingtons exclusively for my personal reloading, and have been doing so for over 20 years. __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

December 8, 2002, 07:07 PM	#16
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	ACTUALLY, I'M OUT OF ROUND I use 'em all, except WSP and WSPM. Remington primers are the smoothest in my production runs.............. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"