Using once fired brass in your rifle

[Thommo25]

G'day guys and girls

Just was wondering if anyone uses brass that Is once fired in someone else's rifle in their own rifle?

Have been told to only shoot brass that has been shot in my rifle by an experienced roo shooter.

But after searching the Internet, I found that some people reload brass from the range that someone else has shot, take it home, reload it and shoot it as their own.

Please comment your thoughts and experiences with once shot brass.

Cheers Thommo25

P's. I have a 223 browning and can't get military brass

[steve4102]

Depends.

If you are going to "Neck" size only then you need to use fired cases from that rifle only.

If you are going to Full Length size, then use any brass you wish.

[wogpotter]

Many do just that, use range pickup brass.
There are a couple of things to be aware of though.
Full length resize is vital.
How do you know how many times it was fired?
Is it actually reloadable? (not all brass is)

Because of that inspection becomes really important so you never get that discarded 10 times fired (with really hot loads) brass that is a GBH away from giving up the ghost.

[hooligan1]

It's not a science to discern "once fired" brass, 99.9 percent of the time it'll have a brass colored primer, no sizing marks, no soot in the neck....I use it mostly in my 30-06.
Also yes all range brass comes home, gets measured for weird sizes and then separated, to be full length resized, tumbled then prepped and measure for a second time. I have over 500 oncefired cases for my 30-06, and it isn't picky, just keep feeding that dude.

[rg1]

I've loaded mostly all once fired brass that I buy both military and commercial once fired. I buy once fired by the 1000 round lots or sometimes 500 rounds. I closely inspect every piece of brass I buy in .223/5.56 or 30-06 calibers. I check the primers to see if they are crimped indicating only once fired, I check the outside of the case for damage and even use a flashlight shined through the flash hole of sized cases and the bent paper clip method to inspect the inside of every case for signs of stretching. I sometimes pick up .223 brass left at my shooting position at the gun range. A few cases I inspect gets scrapped but most gets reloaded for my bolt action and my AR's. Plus I also give as much attention to my own fired brass. Inspection and scrapping any "iffy" case is the key to not having safety issues with unknown fired brass. I'd hate to think how much new factory brass at today's prices would cost and appreciate buying bulk once fired.

[T. O'Heir]

Brass from the range is completely unknown stuff. You have no idea what has been done to it. How many times it has been loaded or anything else about it.
Known once fired is fine though. Just like reloading factory ammo you shot is reloading once fired brass. You absolutely must full length resize it though. No neck sizing only. Every chamber, in every rifle, even two consecutively numbered rifles, is slightly different. FL resizing fixes that.

[nemesiss45]

I use range brass. Most range brass i find appears to be once fired. I have a theory on that. 1st, most people dont reload. Those who dont reload are much morr likely to leave their brass on the deck. Those who do reload will usually take their brass home to reload. If their brass has seen its last reload, they may pick it up and trash it, or they may not.... that works out to roughly 10%or less chance that a reloader will leave brass on the deck (excluding the stray lost round)

[Idaho Spud]

I never load any once-fired brass (bottle-neck) that's not been fired in my own rifle. Pistol... whole other story.

[wogpotter]

99.9 percent of the time it'll have a brass colored primer, no sizing marks, no soot in the neck.

I disagree. Primer color indicates who made the primer, nothing more.

[Thommo25]

Cheers for the comments

I have a full length resizing die kit from rcbs,

Any of you guys shoot a browning x bolt hunter 223?

[tangolima]

Assuming it is really once fired brass, the risk is the that the gun that fired the new cartridge has grossly excessive headspace. Careful inspection is the gate keeper.

When I come to think about it, I have never reloaded with other people's used brass for high power rifles. The only exception is the 15 30-06 brass my friend gave me. I use them for light loads with cast bullets.

-TL

[Fox84]

"Once fired brass" means I picked it up off the range floor or out of a bucket. The term means nothing as to the amount of use.

[Paul B.]

"Assuming it is really once fired brass, the risk is the that the gun that fired the new cartridge has grossly excessive headspace. Careful inspection is the gate keeper."

That's simple enough to check. Just use a paper clip that's been straightened out and bend a "L" shaped hook at one end. If the headspace was that bad there will most likely be enough of a groove near the base of the shell to feel with the clip. It helps if you sharpen the edge of the clip for a better chance to snag the groove.
I've been using range pick up brass since 1954 and a close inspection including the paper clip test has works for me for all those years.
Paul B.

[Clark]

I got brass sent from St Marks FL testing in 270, 30-30, 30-06, and 7mmRM.
It really is once fired with wimpy loads.

But sometimes once fired from individuals is mixed headstamps and mixed numbers of times fired.

With a no turn tight chamber and Lee Collet neck die, I might get ~25 reloadings per trim and ~100 before annealing... we may suspect the worst [standard] chambers and dies were used.

So, one must inspect the brass.

[Marco Califo]

"once fired" brass, 99.9 percent of the time it'll have a brass colored primer

This is repeated a lot by people who do not know better, but really should. You will not find this statement in any reference book or reloading manual.

Pure old-wives-tale-myth-urban-legend-bovine-skat.

There is no such convention for new brass to have "x" colored primers.

A sure indicator though, is if there is a military primer crimp to remove, then you got the real deal.

[Panfisher]

I happily load range pick up brass, even buy it on occasion. Most of it is mil stuff with primer crimp, obviously one fired. By the time I have cleaned, resized, trimmed it, they have been inspected well enough for me to put into stockpile. I full length size all brass anymore.

[P-990]

I use lots of range pickup 9mm and .223 brass. One might even be able to say an embarrassing amount, but I don't embarrass easily.

Most, say 95-98% of my range pickup .223/5.56 brass is definitely once-fired, easy to identify based on the intact primer crimps. Once processed I make sure to keep these reasonably in my possession for reuse, but sometimes the gas-gun likes to chuck a few where I can't find them. I expect most will get lost under range tables, in the weeds or buried in snow banks long before I have a chance to use them enough times to wear them out.

9mm brass? I have been loading and shooting from one bucket of brass most of the winter. Most of it was range pickup and most of it became range pickups after (snow banks again...). Wouldn't surprise or offend me to find some of my range pickups came from another reloader doing the exact same thing last spring. Oh, I have enough 9mm brass to fill the previously mentioned bucket 4 more times. Probably won't be too worried about finding many of them for a few more months.

[Bart B.]

When I shot on a military team, ours and other military team members usually gave all our fired 7.62 NATO match brass to the civilians; they paid for it. Once in a while we would be asked if was safe to reload. We assured them it was.

Some were quite concerned when we gave them fired commercial match cases; their fear of the supposed "much higher pressure" of .308 Win ammo rendered them unfit for reloading. Some felt better after we explained the CUP versus PSI pressure system's disparity in numbers. Others didn't believe that and refused those marvelous commercial once fired cases.

[JeepHammer]

I shoot 10 round groups you can cover with a dime,
And it's ALL once fired brass, mostly military...

I do go an extra step or two when preparing the cases,
It's pretty much a 'Must' with military brass...

1. Knock the primers out, a 'Universal' depriming tool does it nicely.
Military brass has a 'Crimped' or 'Staked' in primer
(So the primer doesn't fall out during brutal machine guy cycling)
Getting the primer out can overwhelm some resize/deprime in one stroke dies.

'Universal' depriming dies don't contact the outside of the case,
So there are no issues with the range dirt/carbon scratching the dies.

2. Clean the brass THROUGHLY,
You will find military 'Ball' powder is VERY dirty and hard to remove scorch marks.

As long as it takes, with as strong a cleaner as it takes.
Military (or civilian) cases might take a LONG time to clean up, but they will clean/polish.

3. Remove Primer Crimp.
Cut crimp lip or swage it down,

This is a process you do ONCE the entire time you use the case.
Once that primer crimp is gone, you don't have to do it again since civilian loaders don't crimp primers (normally).

This is also a good time to check that primer pocket depth.
Not all manufactures have the same depth primer pockets and that makes for some funky primer seating.

If the primer pocket is off specification for civilian hand loads, I discard it,
Or I load a batch of the 'Off Spec' pockets on their own, Provided the civilian primers available won't protrude from the pockets.
Too shallow is more common that too deep...

4. While inspecting/trimming primer crimps
(if the cases have primer crimps),
I also inspect the extraction lip/groove to make sure something didn't damage the lip beyond use.

This concludes the bottom of the case issues...

5. Lube and Resize!
Full length case resize if you are using the brass from a different rifle,
OR,
If you intend your ammo to fit into more than one rifle.

Full length resizing pushes the case walls, shoulders, necks back down to proper size, just like they were supposed to be from the 'Factory'...

USE A PROPER CASE GAUGE TO GET YOUR SIZING DIE AT THE CORRECT HEIGHT OFF THE RAM/SHELL PLATE!
This is something you don't want to 'Guess' at or the case will be under/oversize...

Once you get the first few cases coming out of the resize die correctly,
Lock the die down and run the rest of your cases,
Checking occasionally to see the die hasn't moved...

6. When they come out of the resizing die, this is a very good time to check case necks,
The neck expanding ball just expanded the neck back to proper reload size,
So have a look for cracks,
Look for shoulder 'Dents' from too much lube on the necks,
Uneven case mouths, ect.

7. Stick them in the case gauge again, and see if the need trimmed for length.
Case gauges will have a lower 'Step', and an upper 'Step',
This is the 'Too Short' and 'Too Long' respectively.

It's a 'Go/NoGo' gauge, if the case mouth comes up between the lower and upper steps on the gauge,
You are good to load the case as is.

If it sticks out of the gauge past the upper step,
Trim it.

Just a tip here, the first TWO times you fire a case it will stretch the most...
Fire it twice, then cut to MINIMUM,
The case neck will usually split before you need to trim it again.
(unless you anneal cases, which is an entire other process that sucks to do, heat the case, let it cool so it softens up...)

I usually get between 5 & 8 loadings before the neck cracks, and I crimp every round pretty hard which work hardens the mouth even further...
Some guys that don't crimp get more loading than I do.

8. Now, this is personal preference...
I usually tumble the cases again.
The working, case lube, finger prints, ect. all take a toll on your shine/polish.

Clean them up again before you load, and wear gloves and the cases won't tarnish/corrode nearly as quickly.

9. LOAD UP YOUR CASES!

If you have an auto indexing progressive press, or a manual progressive press,
Consider getting a second, OLDER sizing die.

A little emery cloth on the inside, and sizing ball on the deprime rod to OVER size the die (So it doesn't contact your shiny new case and you don't have to lube it again),

The under size ball, with the deprime rod still in the threaded rod end,
Will knock any tumbler media out of the primer flash hole,
While neither case or neck inside get 'Resized' again.

Depending on design, when a case goes in progressive presses it's sometimes a pain to get out, this is just a step that lets you do 'Production' without taking the case out of the shell plate...

Primer hole clean,
Punch a primer into the pocket, dump some powder in,
Press the bullet into the case mouth,
Crimp if you use a crimp,

Use a CALIPER while you are setting up the bullet seater die and/or crimper to get your desired COAL (CARTRIDGE Over All Length)

And throw it back in the case gauge again one more time to see if the shoulder buckled.

If the loaded round slides in and out of the case gauge completely and smoothly, it will fit any standard chamber again...

Now, this is one of only TWO times I run each and every round through the case gauge...
When I'm checking lenght, which after they have been fired twice and cut to minimum, I test SOME of each batch to see if they grew unnaturally,

But each and every round I produce gets the case gauge.
If the final product fits in the case gauge, it will fit ANY standard chamber,
And a case gauge will find buckled shoulders from too aggressive a crimp, being off center in the powder die, missing resizing, ect.

It's a 'Last Word' test before you start firing your new rounds...

THE LAST STEP,
HAVE FUN!
GET SOME LEAD DOWN RANGE!

-----

I work in steps here,
Once cases have been inspected for primer crimp and crimp removed if necessary,
And they have been fired the second time, Then trimmed,

They come back, hit the tumbler, the standard resizing die knocks the primers out since I know there isn't a crimp anymore,
Just clean, resize, reload, case gauge and I'm ready to shoot again...

After they have been reloaded a few times, the necks will split or the primer pockets will oversize.
If I drop a primer before they hit the reloader, I know the primer pocket is oversize and I toss it.
Inspecting case necks, usually when they are getting the bullet, I just take that case out of rotation, dump the powder back in the thrower, and scrap the case.
I shoot them until they fail...

A lot of people will tell you a Reloaded case (not new) won't be as accurate.
I just took my new hand load to the range today,
Shot a 10 shot group at 100 yards you can cover with a dime, and NONE of the cases were new...
Or trimmed past the second firing...

And that was with a re-chambered military 20" barrel that was tossed out by the military for 'Throat Erosion'.
Scrapped barrel and old cases shooting 3/4 MOA all day long...
$50 US for the chamber reamer which I use several times,
About $10 a use,
And 7¢ for the cases that I use average of 7 times before they fail without annealing...
About 1¢ per use,

Bullets $179/1,000. 17.9¢ a piece, Hornady 55 gr V-Max.

Happy shooting!

[JeepHammer]

One more thing,
DENTS in the case shoulders DOES NOT make the case scrap!

Dents come from too much lube on the case neck.
The lube gets trapped under extreme pressure of the case resize, and hydraulically dents the case shoulder.

If you get a lot of dents at first, that's normal,
It's natures way of telling you you are wasting lube!
If you roll them on a lube pad, DON'T press down so hard and the necks won't get lube, and they don't need lube,
The sides of the case do...

If you are using spray lube,
Try this,
Bottom of a flat cardboard box, drop in some cases, shake the box so they mostly all lay flat,

Give the cases a LIGHT coat of lube,
Shake the cases so they rub on each other, the bottom of the box (you don't want them packed in, room to roll around a little is better),

Give them ANOTHER LIGHT SHOT, shake a little again,
Then run them.

Cases will lube each other when you shake them...
Saving on lube.
The box is disposable, so no stinking lube pad laying around and you can do a bunch of cases in short order.

I usually run about 250 cases at a time,
(what a pound of powder will do, just over 250 rounds)
Smaller box, so it takes three passes to get all the cases laying down in the bottom, single layer,
And with spray can lube, it takes about 2 minutes to lube up 250 cases...

---

Since the shoulders are pushed IN, the round will still chamber,
Although the dents *Might* cause feed ramp problems,
So hand loading dented cases is a good idea.

WHEN YOU FIRE THE ROUND,
THE CASE WILL 'FIRE FORM' to the chamber,
DENTS GONE!

Resize as normal but with less case lube!

-----

Your resizing die will have a 'Pin Hole' in the side somewhere...
This is a 'Vent'.
If you start denting cases when you KNOW the lube is right,
Pull the die and clean that hole!

It gets plugged up with case lube over time and produces dented or hard to resize cases.

Doesn't hurt to pull all your dies out and clean them once in a while...
I use starting fluid (OUTSIDE!),
Or brake cleaner,
Since it strips the crud off and doesn't leave sticky residue like penetrating oil or petroleum based cleaners do.

Electrical contact cleaner works pretty good too, but it will attack your hands...

----

Most guys are going to stick with a ONE SHOT press.
BUT,
If you go with something like the Lee Turret Press,
Your dies stay in the turret, you take the turret out to clean things, or to change calibers.

The turret press is QUICK since the new die just rotates over the ram.
They are fairly accurate, and they are cheap...

Depends on what your time is worth.
This is time consuming no matter how you look at it,
But NOT having to set up dies, check to see the lock ring held, held is worth something...

Auto indexing 'Progressive' presses are nice, but they are a bunch of $$$!!!
And they can be a ROYAL PAIN to set up and get running correctly!
They are GREAT when they run right,
But when they screw up, it's a pain in the butt to get it all figured out and adjusted again...

[F. Guffey]

Once fired in someone else's rifle, my favorite, then there is more favorite. To make the once fired case more favorite it has to have been fired in a trashy old chamber, that would be a chamber that is longer than my chambers from the datum to the bolt face and there is the bonus. A bonus case would be a chase that has been fired in a chamber that has a larger chamber body.

I do not want a case to fit my chambers, I want to size them to fit. I have chamber gages, I have case gages and I have cut off barrels for chamber gages. I measure cases before firing and again after sizing.

then there is measuring cases I did not fire. I measure them before sizing, I have to measure the case after sizing, how else am I going to determine if the case will chamber.

F. Guffey

[FrankenMauser]

I disagree. Primer color indicates who made the primer, nothing more.

Primer color indicates nothing. ...Not even manufacturer.
All manufacturers that offer plated primers also regularly or occasionally sell unplated primers in the same component packaging or ammunition.


Primers tell you nothing about the cartridge's origin, unless they're marked. (Such as MagTech primers.)

---

I use previously-fired .223 Rem / 5.56x45mm, .30-06, 7.62x54R, .444 Marlin, ...and I'm sure I'm forgetting a few.
If the case looks good, it's just as usable as any other case. After sizing and firing it'll be fire-formed to the chamber just like anything else, just with one extra firing taken from its lifespan.

I do not, however, use previously-fired brass in my .270s or 6mm wildcat. Those rifles get very carefully prepped, sorted, and tracked brass that was purchased new, for that specific rifle. I want them to perform at their best, so I eliminate the variable of different lots of brass throwing flyers.


Short version:
I use only brand new, sorted brass for precision applications.
But, I'm willing to use range brass for less critical shooting situations, or when I find a really good lot of range brass.


The BEST lot of .30-06 brass that I use is actually some range-pickup LC 67. I found about 50 pieces of brass (a little worse for ~25 years in the desert), sorted out the scrap, fully prepped the lot, and ended up with 34 amazingly consistent and usable cases. It's even better than the Lapua .30-06 that I run in the same rifle.

[hooligan1]

When disagreeing with my post wogpotta, marco polo, write my entire quote and keep the information together,..its more helpfull.

At my local range you will find more people that leave their brassvthere brought it in the commercial package that they purchased it in.
Also Remington, Winchester, Hornady, Federal is mostly left, all these manufactures produce ammunition with "Brass colored primers", right? You following me?
When these people shoot their commercial ammo, instead of taking it home to handload more ammo, they pitch it into a bucket, here come the hooligan 1 picking it all out and taking it home.,.,,,FREE...

Thats when the inspection starts, Im lookin for soot in the ne ks and sizing marks and primer color as well as sealer stains.....you still with me fellas, then they are measured for distance between head and shoulder datum, as well as entire length, and diameter readings from a few places on the cartridge....if it measures up, it goesvin the 1time fired bucket, if not it goes into the scrap bucket....

[Marco Califo]

When disagreeing with my post wogpotta, marco polo, write my entire quote and keep the information together,..its more helpfull.

At my local range you will find more people that leave their brassvthere brought it in the commercial package that they purchased it in.
Also Remington, Winchester, Hornady, Federal is mostly left, all these manufactures produce ammunition with "Brass colored primers", right? You following me?
When these people shoot their commercial ammo, instead of taking it home to handload more ammo, they pitch it into a bucket, here come the hooligan 1 picking it all out and taking it home.,.,,,FREE...

Thats when the inspection starts, Im lookin for soot in the ne ks and sizing marks and primer color as well as sealer stains.....you still with me fellas, then they are measured for distance between head and shoulder datum, as well as entire length, and diameter readings from a few places on the cartridge....if it measures up, it goesvin the 1time fired bucket, if not it goes into the scrap bucket....

Pure old-wives-tale-myth-urban-legend-bovine-skat.
Specifically, the color of primers does not support any generalization about once fired or not. What brands may or may not be used at any particular range is not supportable or meaningful to this broad audience. All places I shoot at have rifle and pistol brass with a lot of it being military, thus not specifically commercial brass. H. objected to my targeted disagreement above, and reiterated unreliable or not universally applicable generalizations that cloud and drift whatever his intended message may have been. And then there are the spelling and typos. Yes, I disagreed, and included the en masse post per H.'s request to be more helpful. Indeed, I find H.'s posts in this thread to be disagreeable.
My point being that NO range pickup should be assumed to be once fired based on H.'s criteria, unless your buddy bought it new, shot it and handed it to you immediately.
There is a reasonable method to discern once fired military brass, specifically the presence of a crimped-in primer.
I do seek to actively discourage the propagation of falsehoods. I consider this primer color indicator to be one of those falsehoods.

[FrankenMauser]

Pure old-wives-tale-myth-urban-legend-bovine-skat.

I wouldn't say that you've chosen the best method of addressing his post.
...Nor provided any argument ...or even relevant commentary.

If you're going to label hooligan's statements as skat, at least have the decency to be specific about which part(s) you think deserve(s) the label.


If it's the brass...
Happens all the time. Last night, I actually came across two boxes of .45 Auto brass that had been nicely returned to the original boxes. ...And then unceremoniously dumped in a trash can with another 20-30 pieces of loose brass. (Yep, I was digging through the trash. It's 40% targets, 5% broken cheap gun accessories, 49% empty ammo boxes, 1% dead batteries, and 5% surprise. ...You never know what that mystery 5% will be. Sometimes it's brass. Sometimes it's black widows. Sometimes it's pieces of the shelter over the firing line. )

I was a little disappointed, though. There were also several boxes from Hornady .50 BMG ammo, but a scrounger before me had taken the brass.