Small Primer .45 ACP

ShootingNut · April 25, 2011, 05:32 PM

Running into more small primer .45's, Federal, Blazer, etc.
If one wanted to mess around with the "mix", and changing out your Primer
equipment, any reason one would need or want to go with a "magnum" (WSPM) rather than a regular Small Pistol Primer (WSP)?
I'm sure the small would ignite the powder charge, just that I have not heard
any discussion on a need for a "magnum" primer.
Appreciate your thoughts!
Regards,
SN

PawPaw · April 25, 2011, 05:37 PM

Just ran into some an hour ago. I was decapping .45 ACP brass and decided to load a box. While installing primers, I noticed that the Winchester LP primers didn't want to go into the primer pocket and I turned the brass over.

Great Galloping Jehosophat! Some idiot put a small primer pocket on this brass.

Some things should not be tinkered with, and primer sizes is one of them. What idiot came up with that idea? I"ve got about 40 of them in the loading block, and who knows how many are in my .45 drawer? It's enough to make you want to throw your hat in the creek!

Magnum primer? I think not! I light small charges of pistol powder in the .38 special with a standard primer. I am NOT using a magnum primer on the .45 ACP.

ShootingNut · April 25, 2011, 05:42 PM

Pawpaw,
I ran into these around here a few months ago. I had the same reaction as you, when I tried to press the large primer into the casing (I said what the hell is this also).
I hear that it has been around for some time.
For myself, I'm pitching all of these casings, more of a PITA watching for them and changing my priming equipment over. Not worth the effort in my personal opinion.
Regards,
SN

Sky Master · April 25, 2011, 05:47 PM

Not only do I have to look for crimped in primers, now I have to look for small primers in the 45 brass. Yea I've seen them

hogcowboy · April 25, 2011, 06:14 PM

I tired to use brass with small primers when I first ran into them too. I used standard primers and they worked for me. But I since have found the small primer pocket brass to just be a pain in the butt. Sure you can reload them but why? Throw the suckers away. You will be glad you did. At least that's how I feel about them now.

ShootingNut · April 25, 2011, 06:39 PM

larry,
Right on, I agree!

Jeff H · April 25, 2011, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Sure you can reload them but why? Throw the suckers away. You will be glad you did. At least that's how I feel about them now.

Or you just reload them and save them for the matches you shoot where you can't collect your brass.

kxkid · April 26, 2011, 01:48 AM

I ran into it when I started came here and there was a post I found. The small primer is the new clean primer. I load 40 38/357 9 and 380 so I have small primers and they work fine for plinking never really noticed much difference in accuracy

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Nevmavrick · April 26, 2011, 08:33 AM

I sent a few handloads across my chronograph and couldn't find much difference. The flashhole is larger to make up for the smaller mix...I guess.
When shooting at matches where I can't pick my cases up, or where someone else is too fast for me and gets MY brass...I use steel Wolf brass...hmmm, an oxymoron.
EVERYBODY knows ya can't reload steel.
The reason I insist on reloading it is I only shoot lead in my .45. The reason I only use lead? Purely to prove a point...I've several other handguns in which I use jacketed bullets.
Have fun,
Gene

Don P · April 26, 2011, 09:06 AM

Why toss them? As stated use them. I just put them aside until I'm done with the large primer 45's and then I primer up the small primer 45's. I prime by hand so its no big deal. All you folks that are tossing the small primer 45 acp brass please pm me and I'll give you my address and you can mail them to me. I'll use them.

Poodleshooter · April 26, 2011, 11:51 AM

.45ACP should be small primer anyway. It's a 4-8gr charge in a short case.
That said, this is probably the fault of the design engineers who decided to do the fun large primer/small primer trick with 7.62x39 brass. I think they just hate brassrats.

mikld · April 26, 2011, 02:33 PM

I've seen this topic in nearly every forum I attend. IMO; the only problems from small primer 45 ACP brass is when they are not inspected and get into a progressive press' priming system. The larger flash hole is because the small primer rounds were originally "green" or lead free. Larger flash hole needed because of "green" primer compound needed less resistance (larger channel) to ignite powder. I read an article (Handloader I believe) and tests were done on Small Pistol Primed 45 ACP vs Large Pistol Primed 45 ACP. The only difference was a few fps slower for small pistol primers (same load only difference was primers). Bottom line seemed to be: No Big Deal...

PawPaw · April 26, 2011, 03:01 PM

I concur that there is probably not a measurable difference in cartridge performance between small and large primers in the .45 ACP. Small charges of fast powder are easy to light up. That ain't the point.

We hold to certain conventions in the gun hobby. One of those is that .45 ACP uses large primers.

I remember back in the day, some brass manufacturers were making .357 magnum brass with large primer pockets. The industry decided to standardize with small pistol primers for the .38 special and .357 magnum. It's an industry convention that's been adhered to for many, many years.

Personally, I don't care. It wouldn't bother me a bit if the industry decided to go with small primers for all handgun cartridges. Fine with me! That would be one less primer size I'd have to stock. Until then, they should adhere to industry standards, and that standard has long used the large primer in the .45 ACP.

Nevmavrick · April 26, 2011, 08:54 PM

Simply put, the standards are made for the industry, not us as handloaders.
As important as WE think we are, we're not. For the most part, the industry looks at us as a buzzing horsefly....noisy but not a real problem. We have to use what they make.
Prolly 98+% of us started so we could save some money for our shooting. Now...we adapt what we find to our guns.
I used to reload so I could shoot...now, I shoot so I can reload!!!
If you choose to throw the brass away, several board members will gladly accept them, and pay postage, myself included.Most of us use single-stage presses and can easily modify our procedures to take care of the odd problem. Those of you that use progressives will have to start another "station" in your procedure.
Have fun,
Gene

mikld · April 27, 2011, 01:11 PM

"Simply put, the standards are made for the industry, not us as handloaders.
As important as WE think we are, we're not. For the most part, the industry looks at us as a buzzing horsefly....noisy but not a real problem. We have to use what they make.
Prolly 98+% of us started so we could save some money for our shooting. Now...we adapt what we find to our guns.
I used to reload so I could shoot...now, I shoot so I can reload!!!
If you choose to throw the brass away, several board members will gladly accept them, and pay postage, myself included.Most of us use single-stage presses and can easily modify our procedures to take care of the odd problem. Those of you that use progressives will have to start another "station" in your procedure.
Have fun,
Gene"

I agree. I don't think brass manufacturers consider reloading as part of the design engineering of their product. Business is business, what they can sell the most of for the cheapest cost of manufacturing will be the item sold, not what's popular with secondary users. I believe the small pistol primed 45 ACP Leadfree was an attempt to get on the "green" bandwagon...

crowbeaner · April 29, 2011, 07:35 PM

I sort my brass anyway, so I come across them too. I use the large primer brass mostly, but if I HAVE to load the small stuff, I have 2 ways to go.
Titegroup and lead 200 grainers
Federal small pistol primers because they seem to be the hottest "standard" primer before moving to magnums.

April 25, 2011, 05:32 PM	#1
ShootingNut Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,475	Small Primer .45 ACP Running into more small primer .45's, Federal, Blazer, etc. If one wanted to mess around with the "mix", and changing out your Primer equipment, any reason one would need or want to go with a "magnum" (WSPM) rather than a regular Small Pistol Primer (WSP)? I'm sure the small would ignite the powder charge, just that I have not heard any discussion on a need for a "magnum" primer. Appreciate your thoughts! Regards, SN

April 25, 2011, 05:37 PM	#2
PawPaw Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Central Louisiana Posts: 3,137	Just ran into some an hour ago. I was decapping .45 ACP brass and decided to load a box. While installing primers, I noticed that the Winchester LP primers didn't want to go into the primer pocket and I turned the brass over. Great Galloping Jehosophat! Some idiot put a small primer pocket on this brass. Some things should not be tinkered with, and primer sizes is one of them. What idiot came up with that idea? I"ve got about 40 of them in the loading block, and who knows how many are in my .45 drawer? It's enough to make you want to throw your hat in the creek! Magnum primer? I think not! I light small charges of pistol powder in the .38 special with a standard primer. I am NOT using a magnum primer on the .45 ACP. __________________ Dennis Dezendorf http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com

April 25, 2011, 06:14 PM	#5
hogcowboy Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2010 Location: N33 32.941 W 97 53.546 Texas Posts: 231	Throw them away I tired to use brass with small primers when I first ran into them too. I used standard primers and they worked for me. But I since have found the small primer pocket brass to just be a pain in the butt. Sure you can reload them but why? Throw the suckers away. You will be glad you did. At least that's how I feel about them now. __________________ Do things as if your life depends on it. It COULD! American Legion Rider

April 26, 2011, 09:06 AM	#10
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Why toss them? As stated use them. I just put them aside until I'm done with the large primer 45's and then I primer up the small primer 45's. I prime by hand so its no big deal. All you folks that are tossing the small primer 45 acp brass please pm me and I'll give you my address and you can mail them to me. I'll use them. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

April 26, 2011, 02:33 PM	#12
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	I've seen this topic in nearly every forum I attend. IMO; the only problems from small primer 45 ACP brass is when they are not inspected and get into a progressive press' priming system. The larger flash hole is because the small primer rounds were originally "green" or lead free. Larger flash hole needed because of "green" primer compound needed less resistance (larger channel) to ignite powder. I read an article (Handloader I believe) and tests were done on Small Pistol Primed 45 ACP vs Large Pistol Primed 45 ACP. The only difference was a few fps slower for small pistol primers (same load only difference was primers). Bottom line seemed to be: No Big Deal... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

April 25, 2011, 05:42 PM	#3
ShootingNut Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,475	Pawpaw, I ran into these around here a few months ago. I had the same reaction as you, when I tried to press the large primer into the casing (I said what the hell is this also). I hear that it has been around for some time. For myself, I'm pitching all of these casings, more of a PITA watching for them and changing my priming equipment over. Not worth the effort in my personal opinion. Regards, SN

April 25, 2011, 05:47 PM	#4
Sky Master Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2009 Posts: 136	Not only do I have to look for crimped in primers, now I have to look for small primers in the 45 brass. Yea I've seen them

April 25, 2011, 06:39 PM	#6
ShootingNut Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,475	larry, Right on, I agree!

April 26, 2011, 01:48 AM	#8
kxkid Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2011 Posts: 207	I ran into it when I started came here and there was a post I found. The small primer is the new clean primer. I load 40 38/357 9 and 380 so I have small primers and they work fine for plinking never really noticed much difference in accuracy Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

April 26, 2011, 08:33 AM	#9
Nevmavrick Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2010 Location: Sparks, Nevada, near Reno Posts: 183	I sent a few handloads across my chronograph and couldn't find much difference. The flashhole is larger to make up for the smaller mix...I guess. When shooting at matches where I can't pick my cases up, or where someone else is too fast for me and gets MY brass...I use steel Wolf brass...hmmm, an oxymoron. EVERYBODY knows ya can't reload steel. The reason I insist on reloading it is I only shoot lead in my .45. The reason I only use lead? Purely to prove a point...I've several other handguns in which I use jacketed bullets. Have fun, Gene

April 26, 2011, 11:51 AM	#11
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	.45ACP should be small primer anyway. It's a 4-8gr charge in a short case. That said, this is probably the fault of the design engineers who decided to do the fun large primer/small primer trick with 7.62x39 brass. I think they just hate brassrats.

April 26, 2011, 03:01 PM	#13
PawPaw Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Central Louisiana Posts: 3,137	I concur that there is probably not a measurable difference in cartridge performance between small and large primers in the .45 ACP. Small charges of fast powder are easy to light up. That ain't the point. We hold to certain conventions in the gun hobby. One of those is that .45 ACP uses large primers. I remember back in the day, some brass manufacturers were making .357 magnum brass with large primer pockets. The industry decided to standardize with small pistol primers for the .38 special and .357 magnum. It's an industry convention that's been adhered to for many, many years. Personally, I don't care. It wouldn't bother me a bit if the industry decided to go with small primers for all handgun cartridges. Fine with me! That would be one less primer size I'd have to stock. Until then, they should adhere to industry standards, and that standard has long used the large primer in the .45 ACP. __________________ Dennis Dezendorf http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com

April 26, 2011, 08:54 PM	#14
Nevmavrick Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2010 Location: Sparks, Nevada, near Reno Posts: 183	Simply put, the standards are made for the industry, not us as handloaders. As important as WE think we are, we're not. For the most part, the industry looks at us as a buzzing horsefly....noisy but not a real problem. We have to use what they make. Prolly 98+% of us started so we could save some money for our shooting. Now...we adapt what we find to our guns. I used to reload so I could shoot...now, I shoot so I can reload!!! If you choose to throw the brass away, several board members will gladly accept them, and pay postage, myself included.Most of us use single-stage presses and can easily modify our procedures to take care of the odd problem. Those of you that use progressives will have to start another "station" in your procedure. Have fun, Gene

April 27, 2011, 01:11 PM	#15
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	"Simply put, the standards are made for the industry, not us as handloaders. As important as WE think we are, we're not. For the most part, the industry looks at us as a buzzing horsefly....noisy but not a real problem. We have to use what they make. Prolly 98+% of us started so we could save some money for our shooting. Now...we adapt what we find to our guns. I used to reload so I could shoot...now, I shoot so I can reload!!! If you choose to throw the brass away, several board members will gladly accept them, and pay postage, myself included.Most of us use single-stage presses and can easily modify our procedures to take care of the odd problem. Those of you that use progressives will have to start another "station" in your procedure. Have fun, Gene" I agree. I don't think brass manufacturers consider reloading as part of the design engineering of their product. Business is business, what they can sell the most of for the cheapest cost of manufacturing will be the item sold, not what's popular with secondary users. I believe the small pistol primed 45 ACP Leadfree was an attempt to get on the "green" bandwagon... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

April 29, 2011, 07:35 PM	#16
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	I sort my brass anyway, so I come across them too. I use the large primer brass mostly, but if I HAVE to load the small stuff, I have 2 ways to go. Titegroup and lead 200 grainers Federal small pistol primers because they seem to be the hottest "standard" primer before moving to magnums. __________________ If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk. Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it. I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.