Enfield JC sights

[BoogieMan]

I have a JC that has been modded long before my time. Original front sight and flash hider was replaced. Also the end cap and top wood cover is gone. My son is insisting on using this rifle for deer hunting this year. My question is how do I improve the sights. I have a full machine shop and I dont mind making some mild mods to the gun in the name of accuracy.
My considerations thus far:
1: Making a bushing to fill in some of the huge rear ring. This would require moving the front sight in order to bring the target to poa.

2: Installing a vintage Lyman 56 peep sight that I have laying around. This would require that I drill the side of the receiver

[wogpotter]

NDNT scope mount & a red dot?

[James K]

I think your best bet would be to use the Lyman sight on the rear, then concentrate on doing a good job on the front sight. Just MHO, of course.

Jim

[BoogieMan]

I found out that my front sight is my problem.


I have zero experience with battle sights and how to use them. What I am trying to do is center that tip of the front pin in the back ring. I am pretty sure that I need some type of a front ring in order to center the front sight. So adding the lyman or any other mod to the back sight will likely do very little to improve my poi.

[wogpotter]

OK I can help you here.

The "ring" at the back shouldn't even be directly visible. You get close enough to it & it "fuzzes out" as a periphery to your vision. That's fine it just means your eye has (automatically & subconsciously) found the center of the aperture in the ring. This gives you the eye/rear sight alignment you need, forget about it from then on.

Assuming you are zeroed correctly, just place the tip of the front sight where you want the bullet to strike & bingo, you're done.

I would use something to blacken the rear of the blade though the shiny wear marks are going to be distracting. Just use smoke from a match or candle or cigarette lighter to do it.

[BoogieMan]

How about the front sight not having the "legs" to center it? I shoot as you said wagspotter, but im all over the target at 100yds. IMO this isnt a hunting rifle if I or my son cant hold a 4" circle at 100yds

[wogpotter]

You mean the "ears" those things that stick up on either side of the barrel?
If so they have absolutely nothing at all to do with sighting. They are these solely to protect the front sight blade from damage during things like bayonet fighting in a war.

Your eye automatically centers behind the peep, the tip of the blade sits on the intended POI. Whats the ears got to do with it?

I don't honestly thing the sight is the problem, but ammo might be.
How does the bore look?
Have you done a "bullet test"?
Have you tried a different kind of ammo?

Bear in mind the average MilSurp is designed to do a 1 1/2X 3" 5-shot group at 100yds.

How big is the "Huge rear ring", it might be a ghost ring, designed for fast snap shooting. What mark of rear sight do you have, there were several.

[BoogieMan]

Going by the diagram you attached I think the ring has been opened up or just designed for very rapid fire, hole is about .200" dia, when flipped up its .100" dia. If I crank flipped sight all the way down (8 clicks below 200) is it fair to say its a 100yd sight?
As far as the ears are concerned I was under the impression that they are used to center up similar to the front hood on a target sight.
I was shooting mixed mill surp ammo. I will be shooting the PPU 150gr SP BT for deer and because of price all the time. Barrel is dark but smooth, I did notice some copper fowling that I need to address. I cant remember when if ever I have given this rifle a thorough cleaning.

[wogpotter]

Measuring my factory-issue unmessed with sight the "battle sight (the folded down one) is indeed 0.200", a combat ghost-ring style designed for rapid fire with "reasonable" (read hit a man sized target) accuracy! There sere several "flavours" of this sight & the hole size varied a lot.
Folding it up to use the click micrometer sight the hole in the slide is 0.097" so I guess yours is about right.

The "battle sight" is zeroed for a 300Yd zero with the bayonet fixed, or 400 without the bayonet, the micrometer should be dead on @ 100 yds with 4 clicks down from "2" on the slide, but only with 174Gr MkVII issue ball ammo.

You can change front sight blades to get a good zero. There should be a number stamped on the flat bit of the front sight just below the blade. they come in multiple different heights & the stamp tells you which height you have fitted. They're cheap enough I'd shoot a few rounds of the 150 Gr Prvi with the sight 4 down from "2", work out how far off you are & get the correct height sight for a real 100yd zero.

Regarding fouling.
I've "saved" several "shot out, cant hit a barn standing inside it" Enfields with a deep cleaning. If you have the Hoppes #9 (old or new, don't matter) try this. Brush out the bore (4~5 passes) with a brush & Hoppes. Patch out. Use a loose fitting patch to thoroughly wet the bore with Hoppes, don't try to scrub, just get a lot in the bore. Now stand the rifle MUZZLE DOWN VERTICALLY on some old newsprint & just go away overnight. In the morning there will probably be a big green/blue "flower" in the newsprint. Repeat the brush, patch soak every day until you get no more green flowers. Don't try this with a modern high-speed cleaner, the whole trick is the Hoppes slowly leeches under decades of crud & pulls it out. It might take 10 or even 15 days but it will rescue "dead" bores a lot of times.

[BoogieMan]

Wogpotter- Thank you for all your help. I will soak it with some hoppes tonight and follow the procedure like you posted. After that I will go with the micrometer sight and just practice with the PPU, or rather get my son to practice with it. Im more of a scope guy. I do ok with irons but when it comes to filling the freezer I dont take chances.

[wogpotter]

when it comes to filling the freezer I don't take chances.

I hear that, good luck with it.

[gyvel]

...but im all over the target at 100yds.

This sounds an awful lot like the famous "wandering zero" problem that was inherent in the No. 5s. Allegedly, the problem was from receiver (body) flex caused by too many lightening cuts.

[wogpotter]

*edited to fix typo*
I'm not sure. He's saying a 4~5" group @ 100yds. That's actually not terrible for a MilSurp.

Hey a light bulb just went on.
That's a No5 with a cut down flash hider. D'oh! why didn't I think of this.
What does the barrel crown look like? can you get a pic showing the front of the muzzle?

[gyvel]

I'm not sure. He's saying a 4~5" group @ 1000yds.

Actually, he said 100 yds.

Any good Lee-Enfield is capable of 2" groups or better at 100 yds. Even my No. 1 Mk I*** with a sewer pipe bore can beat 4 or 5".

[wogpotter]

Oops, typo.

[BoogieMan]

I will post a pick of the crown asap. The flash hider was not cut short enough to effect the crown if thats what your thinking. Its a shame that its modified at all seeing as the bore and all other parts of the rifle are superb. I thorough cleaning has really made it shine.

[wogpotter]

I was just wondering if the cut was square & clean. High pressure gas whacking the bullet on one side more than another can do some strange things to its path & stability.

[gyvel]

I doubt there is a problem with the crown. My own personal experiences with genuine jungle carbines emulate the experieces that the British Army had with a "wandering zero." It was, apparently, inherent in the design.

You could, as an experiment, drive the two pins out that hold on the remnants of the flash hider, and scope the rifle.

[BoogieMan]

I dont think its an issue with the rifle. Im pretty sure its an issue with my own technique or lack there of. I do pretty good with a pin and "V" notch type sight but I have not yet figured out the ring style battle sights. I want to learn and figure it out. But this is my sons choice for a hunting rifle. I am using a scoped 460xvr in PA and a CVA Accura also scoped in NJ. Prior to this I always used a scoped Remy 7600