using a spacer for changing between 38 and 357 ?

rebs · July 20, 2013, 06:24 PM

I have read about using a spacer on your dies when switching between 38 and 357 loading. Does anyone know about this and what thickness spacer is used ?

boondocker385 · July 20, 2013, 07:00 PM

Rcbs dies come with a spacer but they have enough length that I don't use it.

Jim Watson · July 20, 2013, 07:13 PM

.135"
Not an eighth of an inch, not a tenth of an inch, .135".
You would think all these internet and gunzine experts who are so clear on the difference between "clip" and "magazine" would be able to do the simple arithmetic of subtracting 1.155 from 1.290.

Redding sells a little kit with three spacers for the purpose.
A .135" that will let you go from .38 Special to .357 Magnum expanding and seating dies without changing the lockrings. (No need to space the sizing die, you want full length sizing anyhow.)
You get a .125" spacer because the difference between .44 Special and .44 Magnum case lengths IS an eighth of an inch.
There is also a .0625" spacer to back off the crimp shoulder if you want to go to a separate taper crimp die as for a plated bullet. Still have to make some adjustment in the seating die unless you could accommodate a sixteenth longer OAL.

BigD_in_FL · July 20, 2013, 07:48 PM

Call RCBS and they'll send you one for free

rebs · July 20, 2013, 08:04 PM

Thank you guys for the info, I appreciate it

Sport45 · July 27, 2013, 01:01 AM

IMHO spacers are overrated. I'll probably be adjusting the die anyway and I can turn the lock ring quicker than I can remove the die and install a spacer.

The die threads are 1:14 so 0.135 inches is ~1.9 turns. 0.125" is 1.75 turns. An index mark on the die body and a corresponding mark on the lock ring would take care of things easily, but I don't bother with that either. I just use a loaded dummy cartridge. I back off the lock ring a few turns every time I take the seating die out of the press. When I put it back in I run the die down snug on the dummy round and then run the lock ring down. My crimp is then set.

ljnowell · July 27, 2013, 01:38 AM

I have always just adjusted the dies, it doesnt take much time at all.

Misssissippi Dave · July 27, 2013, 07:57 AM

I have an RCBS die set and it came with the spacer. The spacer is close but not exact. I load on a progressive press and got tired of having to tweak it when I switched. My solution was to get another die set and head to set them up and leave them alone. Also the RCBS set seats and crimps in the same operation. I prefer to keep them separate. It allows me to make minor adjustments of one without changing the other.

buck460XVR · July 27, 2013, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ljnowell:

I have always just adjusted the dies, it doesnt take much time at all.

Same here.

Sevens · July 27, 2013, 11:59 AM

Here's a hint: if you didn't know about it, I'll bet someone benefits from it.

In a set of "carbide handgun dies", only the sizing die has carbide steel. It's the only one that needs it. The other two dies are just the same as they were in the 50s, 60s and 70s before carbide (no lube!) sizing dies hit the market to make handgun handloading so much quicker, easier and more enjoyable.

What this means for you?
At nearly every gun show, there's at least a table or two of old guys selling O-L-D handloading gear. Much of it looks like it was left over from the ice age. A lot of times they've got old steel handgun sets. Very much unloved, usually priced as such. And if they aren't priced where you want 'em, it's a gun show... almost every single thing is negotiable.

Find an old steel set that the same guy has been hauling to the same show for 15 years. He'll be thrilled to get rid of it.

When you get the die set home, forget the sizing die entirely, you don't ever need to touch it. The other two dies are as good today as they were when they were sold as new at retail decades ago. About the biggest difference I can find is that back in the day they often changed bullet seating "plugs" to better fit the shape of the bullet they wanted to use whereas today's dies do a better job of adapting to any shape of bullet.

At my bench I use old Lyman and Pacific dies for exactly this reason. I've got a different flare die set up to do .38 from .357, I never have to adjust ANYTHING, I just grab the proper die. And I use multiple seat/crimp dies for different bullets and tasks. All adjusted, just spin the right die in place.

I typically pay around ten bucks for one of these old, unloved, nearly unsellable old non-carbide die sets.

Peter M. Eick · July 28, 2013, 06:57 AM

Die sets are cheap. Save your self the aggravation and just buy another die set.

I am now to the point that I just buy used die sets and set them up for particular loads. It is far easier than resetting the dies all time. You can get used sets on ebay cheap.

**Mike Irwin** · July 28, 2013, 09:42 AM

I've never used the spacer. I simply invested in two sets of dies, and keep both mounted in turret heads.

m&p45acp10+1 · July 28, 2013, 11:18 AM

I just keep a dummy round of the rounds I use. I can reset my dies in a couple of minutes.

I do have a second set for .357 Mag though, All I do with my turret is back the flaring die out, change the seating die, and back the FCD out to the proper setting. Takes about two minutes for me to do. It takes me longer to change the cavity on my powder measure than to readjust the dies.

OkieCruffler · July 28, 2013, 09:50 PM

Yep, 357 dies are cheap. I even invested in 3 different seater dies, one for my jacketed bullets, one for my cast SWC and one for my 38 wadcutter loads. May have cost me an extra 20 bucks and no more aggrevation.

F. Guffey · July 30, 2013, 09:15 AM

rebs, I do not secure the lock ring to the die, I secure the die to the press with the lock ring, I have no fear of loosing my place, I adjust the dies every time. Rather that assume you have a reloading manual I have included a link to SAAMI, I suggest you navigate through the SAAMI site to find 38 Special and 357 Magnum, I suggest you compare the difference in length between the 38 Special and 357 Magnum case then subtract the length of the short case from the long case to determine how they came up with the thickness of the washer, then I suggest you do the same with the 44 Special and 44 Remington mag cases.

There are suppliers of reloading accessories that believe they invented ‘the shim’, after RCBS made a separate set of dies for the 38 Special and 357 Magnmum there were reloaders using the 38 Special dies to load both, they were reloaders that did not secure the lock ring to the die because they felt very comfortable with adjusting their dies. A few of them were able to transfer dimensions from the chamber to the die.

F. Guffey

F. Guffey · July 30, 2013, 09:53 AM

http://www.saami.org/specifications_...tion/index.cfm

F. Guffey

Jim Watson · July 30, 2013, 10:09 AM

Sevens is right. I have two sets of .38s and three of .45s, bought to get extra seating dies.

By the way, the seating plug on a Lyman die is 1/2x20 which makes a turn .050", easy to figure adjustments.

F. Guffey · July 30, 2013, 12:53 PM

Seater plug kits, not the answer for everyone. Then there were expander dies that were aluminum. Before progressive presses the expander die had the primer punch.

One of the other kits has sizer die parts.

F. Guffey

F. Guffey · July 30, 2013, 01:06 PM

"By the way, the seating plug on a Lyman die is 1/2x20 which makes a turn .050", easy to figure adjustments"

Then there is verifying, all of my seating plug stems are adjustable in thousandths. I use the dial caliper, rather make a guess then verify I go straight to the verifying tool, the dial caliper, some choose to use the seating die with the dial indicator, my dial caliper comes with a dial indicator, and it is portable.

F. Guffey

Paul B. · July 30, 2013, 01:38 PM

I made my own set of rings for the 38/.357 and .44Spl./.44 mag. years efore RCBS or anyon else I can think of ever made them. I don't doubt that many others did likewise. The only adjustment I have to make is for the seating stem, depending on the bullet I'm using.
Paul B.

David Bachelder · July 30, 2013, 03:57 PM

I used to load single stage on a RockChucker. At that time I used the spacers. Then I started using LNL bushings ansd skipped the washer most of the ime. then I got lazy an bought a second set of dies.

I'm still lazy, I load on a progressive now, and I still have the two sets of dies.

I also still have the RockChucker and use it for my rifle rounds and other single stage chores.

rebs · July 31, 2013, 07:04 AM

a friend just gave me a set of carbide 38/357 RCBS dies so I will have a set for 38 and a set for 357.
Thank you for the replies, I appreciate it.

BigD_in_FL · July 31, 2013, 07:43 AM

Since I load the same two bullets in both 38 and 357, on a single stage press, using the spacer works fine for me - the seating stems stay at the correct height with no further adjustments required

carl86 · July 31, 2013, 08:09 AM

I use the same style bullet with a lee four die set and a .135" spacer.
Works for me with no adjustment for the changeover.

July 20, 2013, 06:24 PM	#1
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	using a spacer for changing between 38 and 357 ? I have read about using a spacer on your dies when switching between 38 and 357 loading. Does anyone know about this and what thickness spacer is used ?

July 27, 2013, 01:01 AM	#6
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	IMHO spacers are overrated. I'll probably be adjusting the die anyway and I can turn the lock ring quicker than I can remove the die and install a spacer. The die threads are 1:14 so 0.135 inches is ~1.9 turns. 0.125" is 1.75 turns. An index mark on the die body and a corresponding mark on the lock ring would take care of things easily, but I don't bother with that either. I just use a loaded dummy cartridge. I back off the lock ring a few turns every time I take the seating die out of the press. When I put it back in I run the die down snug on the dummy round and then run the lock ring down. My crimp is then set. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter. Last edited by Sport45; July 28, 2013 at 04:34 AM. Reason: pour spelling

July 27, 2013, 11:59 AM	#10
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Here's a hint: if you didn't know about it, I'll bet someone benefits from it. In a set of "carbide handgun dies", only the sizing die has carbide steel. It's the only one that needs it. The other two dies are just the same as they were in the 50s, 60s and 70s before carbide (no lube!) sizing dies hit the market to make handgun handloading so much quicker, easier and more enjoyable. What this means for you? At nearly every gun show, there's at least a table or two of old guys selling O-L-D handloading gear. Much of it looks like it was left over from the ice age. A lot of times they've got old steel handgun sets. Very much unloved, usually priced as such. And if they aren't priced where you want 'em, it's a gun show... almost every single thing is negotiable. Find an old steel set that the same guy has been hauling to the same show for 15 years. He'll be thrilled to get rid of it. When you get the die set home, forget the sizing die entirely, you don't ever need to touch it. The other two dies are as good today as they were when they were sold as new at retail decades ago. About the biggest difference I can find is that back in the day they often changed bullet seating "plugs" to better fit the shape of the bullet they wanted to use whereas today's dies do a better job of adapting to any shape of bullet. At my bench I use old Lyman and Pacific dies for exactly this reason. I've got a different flare die set up to do .38 from .357, I never have to adjust ANYTHING, I just grab the proper die. And I use multiple seat/crimp dies for different bullets and tasks. All adjusted, just spin the right die in place. I typically pay around ten bucks for one of these old, unloved, nearly unsellable old non-carbide die sets. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

July 28, 2013, 06:57 AM	#11
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	Die sets are cheap. Save your self the aggravation and just buy another die set. I am now to the point that I just buy used die sets and set them up for particular loads. It is far easier than resetting the dies all time. You can get used sets on ebay cheap. __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

July 28, 2013, 09:42 AM	#12
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	I've never used the spacer. I simply invested in two sets of dies, and keep both mounted in turret heads. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 20, 2013, 07:00 PM	#2
boondocker385 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2013 Posts: 640	Rcbs dies come with a spacer but they have enough length that I don't use it.

July 20, 2013, 07:13 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	.135" Not an eighth of an inch, not a tenth of an inch, .135". You would think all these internet and gunzine experts who are so clear on the difference between "clip" and "magazine" would be able to do the simple arithmetic of subtracting 1.155 from 1.290. Redding sells a little kit with three spacers for the purpose. A .135" that will let you go from .38 Special to .357 Magnum expanding and seating dies without changing the lockrings. (No need to space the sizing die, you want full length sizing anyhow.) You get a .125" spacer because the difference between .44 Special and .44 Magnum case lengths IS an eighth of an inch. There is also a .0625" spacer to back off the crimp shoulder if you want to go to a separate taper crimp die as for a plated bullet. Still have to make some adjustment in the seating die unless you could accommodate a sixteenth longer OAL.

July 20, 2013, 07:48 PM	#4
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	Call RCBS and they'll send you one for free

July 20, 2013, 08:04 PM	#5
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Thank you guys for the info, I appreciate it

July 27, 2013, 01:38 AM	#7
ljnowell Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Posts: 274	I have always just adjusted the dies, it doesnt take much time at all.

July 27, 2013, 07:57 AM	#8
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	I have an RCBS die set and it came with the spacer. The spacer is close but not exact. I load on a progressive press and got tired of having to tweak it when I switched. My solution was to get another die set and head to set them up and leave them alone. Also the RCBS set seats and crimps in the same operation. I prefer to keep them separate. It allows me to make minor adjustments of one without changing the other.

July 28, 2013, 11:18 AM	#13
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	I just keep a dummy round of the rounds I use. I can reset my dies in a couple of minutes. I do have a second set for .357 Mag though, All I do with my turret is back the flaring die out, change the seating die, and back the FCD out to the proper setting. Takes about two minutes for me to do. It takes me longer to change the cavity on my powder measure than to readjust the dies. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

July 28, 2013, 09:50 PM	#14
OkieCruffler Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2001 Location: Denison Texas on the banks of Texhoma Posts: 1,556	Yep, 357 dies are cheap. I even invested in 3 different seater dies, one for my jacketed bullets, one for my cast SWC and one for my 38 wadcutter loads. May have cost me an extra 20 bucks and no more aggrevation. __________________ John A. Monroe, Never Forgive, Never Forget, Blood Pays Blood

July 30, 2013, 09:15 AM	#15
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	rebs, I do not secure the lock ring to the die, I secure the die to the press with the lock ring, I have no fear of loosing my place, I adjust the dies every time. Rather that assume you have a reloading manual I have included a link to SAAMI, I suggest you navigate through the SAAMI site to find 38 Special and 357 Magnum, I suggest you compare the difference in length between the 38 Special and 357 Magnum case then subtract the length of the short case from the long case to determine how they came up with the thickness of the washer, then I suggest you do the same with the 44 Special and 44 Remington mag cases. There are suppliers of reloading accessories that believe they invented ‘the shim’, after RCBS made a separate set of dies for the 38 Special and 357 Magnmum there were reloaders using the 38 Special dies to load both, they were reloaders that did not secure the lock ring to the die because they felt very comfortable with adjusting their dies. A few of them were able to transfer dimensions from the chamber to the die. F. Guffey

July 30, 2013, 09:53 AM	#16
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	http://www.saami.org/specifications_...tion/index.cfm F. Guffey

July 30, 2013, 10:09 AM	#17
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,542	Sevens is right. I have two sets of .38s and three of .45s, bought to get extra seating dies. By the way, the seating plug on a Lyman die is 1/2x20 which makes a turn .050", easy to figure adjustments.

July 30, 2013, 12:53 PM	#18
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Seater plug kits, not the answer for everyone. Then there were expander dies that were aluminum. Before progressive presses the expander die had the primer punch. One of the other kits has sizer die parts. F. Guffey

July 30, 2013, 01:06 PM	#19
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	"By the way, the seating plug on a Lyman die is 1/2x20 which makes a turn .050", easy to figure adjustments" Then there is verifying, all of my seating plug stems are adjustable in thousandths. I use the dial caliper, rather make a guess then verify I go straight to the verifying tool, the dial caliper, some choose to use the seating die with the dial indicator, my dial caliper comes with a dial indicator, and it is portable. F. Guffey Last edited by F. Guffey; July 30, 2013 at 01:07 PM. Reason: vhange O to I

July 30, 2013, 01:38 PM	#20
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	I made my own set of rings for the 38/.357 and .44Spl./.44 mag. years efore RCBS or anyon else I can think of ever made them. I don't doubt that many others did likewise. The only adjustment I have to make is for the seating stem, depending on the bullet I'm using. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

July 30, 2013, 03:57 PM	#21
David Bachelder Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2011 Location: Trinity, Texas Posts: 636	I used to load single stage on a RockChucker. At that time I used the spacers. Then I started using LNL bushings ansd skipped the washer most of the ime. then I got lazy an bought a second set of dies. I'm still lazy, I load on a progressive now, and I still have the two sets of dies. I also still have the RockChucker and use it for my rifle rounds and other single stage chores. __________________ David Bachelder Trinity, Texas I load, 9mm Luger, 38 and 40 S&W, 38 Special, 357Magnum, 45ACP, 45 Colt, 223, 300 AAC, 243 and 30-06

July 31, 2013, 07:04 AM	#22
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	a friend just gave me a set of carbide 38/357 RCBS dies so I will have a set for 38 and a set for 357. Thank you for the replies, I appreciate it.

July 31, 2013, 07:43 AM	#23
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	Since I load the same two bullets in both 38 and 357, on a single stage press, using the spacer works fine for me - the seating stems stay at the correct height with no further adjustments required

July 31, 2013, 08:09 AM	#24
carl86 Junior Member Join Date: July 15, 2012 Posts: 4	Works for me I use the same style bullet with a lee four die set and a .135" spacer. Works for me with no adjustment for the changeover.