Just looking for the worth of a gun.

dw · May 9, 2000, 02:12 PM

Hey guys i was at swap meet this past weekend and i was selling a few guns and a guy showed me a gun made by savage arms. I believe it was called the keel kamper or maybe keet kamper. Model kk2. Anyway the barrel was 18 3/4 and the stock was probably around 6-8 inches. THe guy said he had taken it to several gunsmiths who said no alterations had been made to the gun and that they had never seen one. None of them could find it in any of their books. I would like any and all info on this gun. I have the guys number and he is interested in selling it i would just like to know what it is worth first. thanks derek

fal308 · May 10, 2000, 08:17 AM

Could you supply some more information on the firearm? Is it a shotgun, rifle or handgun? Caliber or gauge? Action type - bolt, single shot, etc?

It could be a Savage from the old Cresent Firearms Company. Savage bought Cresent Firearms in 1931 and Cresent was known for building hardware or trade firearms.

dw · May 10, 2000, 02:47 PM

Sorry guys. It is chambered in .410 and it is a single shot. On the top of thebarrel it reads do fire from the shoulder. In the butt it stores i think 4 or 5 shells. THat is all i can remeber. thanks alot guys!

dw · May 12, 2000, 04:55 PM

Does anyone have any ideal on this gun. I would like absolutely any info. thanks again guys.

this is just for BTTT

thanks derek

James K · May 13, 2000, 03:11 PM

FWIW, I vaguely remember something like that being sold as a sort of defense shotgun. It barely met the minimum barrel and minimum overall legal length. It really was a commercially made "sawed off shotgun". It disappeared quickly. There could have been some pressure applied, but I don't know that for a fact.

I don't even remember that the maker was Savage, but your gun sounds a lot like it. If so, it should have a model number, as well as a serial number. I will do a little more checking and will let you know if I come up with anything.

Jim

dw · May 13, 2000, 06:20 PM

thanks jim i appreciate it!!!!

James K · May 14, 2000, 07:16 PM

Hi, dw,

I think I tracked it down. As far as I can tell, it was not made by Savage. It is called the Snake Charmer, and is listed in the books under that name. It came out about 1978, with the maker listed as H. Koon, Dallas, TX. Later, the maker was listed as Bob Meese Co, of Carrollton, TX, and then Sporting Arms, with an address near that given for Koon.

I don't know if those companies actually made the gun, or imported it, or had it made for them. Savage is not mentioned in my sources, although since it is listed in some alphabetical references right behind Savage and this could be misleading. The Blue Book indicates it is still made. It is a break open, single barrel shotgun, .410 only, with a kind of thumbhole stock. The basic gun is stainless steel with plastic stock, but there were other finishes. Overall length is 26 3/4 inches, barrel length is 18 3/4.

There were versions called the Night Charmer and Sea Charmer, though I don't know what the differences were.

The books list a price for NIB of around $175, 100% at about $150, and down to $25 for 60%.

Jim

dw · May 14, 2000, 08:20 PM

JIm
thanks for the great info. Although the gun said savage arms directly on it and it wasn't a thumbhole stock. However i do think you are the closest anyone has came yet to the gun. thanks alot
derek

fal308 · May 15, 2000, 08:40 AM

It's not the Snake Charmer series. That series has a polymer stock with brushed stainless barrel and action. The Night Charmer was essentially the same gun with a flashlight mounted on or in it (can't remember which).
Years ago there was a Kimel Kamper produced, I believe, by Firearms International Inc. This was produced in 12 gauge only IIRC. It was placed in production in the mid-1970s (1974?). It had a skeleton under-folding stock with the lockout button in the all metal pistolgrip assembly. The folder could also be legally removed as the OAL and barrel length were sufficient without the stock.
It was based on the Stevens Model 94 series and possessed the same features. Several of the parts are also apparantly interchangeable.

dw · May 21, 2000, 01:22 PM

bttt

dw

May 9, 2000, 02:12 PM	#1
dw Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 1999 Location: Bourbon, Indiana, USA Posts: 153	Hey guys i was at swap meet this past weekend and i was selling a few guns and a guy showed me a gun made by savage arms. I believe it was called the keel kamper or maybe keet kamper. Model kk2. Anyway the barrel was 18 3/4 and the stock was probably around 6-8 inches. THe guy said he had taken it to several gunsmiths who said no alterations had been made to the gun and that they had never seen one. None of them could find it in any of their books. I would like any and all info on this gun. I have the guys number and he is interested in selling it i would just like to know what it is worth first. thanks derek

May 10, 2000, 08:17 AM	#2
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	Could you supply some more information on the firearm? Is it a shotgun, rifle or handgun? Caliber or gauge? Action type - bolt, single shot, etc? It could be a Savage from the old Cresent Firearms Company. Savage bought Cresent Firearms in 1931 and Cresent was known for building hardware or trade firearms.

May 10, 2000, 02:47 PM	#3
dw Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 1999 Location: Bourbon, Indiana, USA Posts: 153	Sorry guys. It is chambered in .410 and it is a single shot. On the top of thebarrel it reads do fire from the shoulder. In the butt it stores i think 4 or 5 shells. THat is all i can remeber. thanks alot guys!

May 12, 2000, 04:55 PM	#4
dw Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 1999 Location: Bourbon, Indiana, USA Posts: 153	Does anyone have any ideal on this gun. I would like absolutely any info. thanks again guys. this is just for BTTT thanks derek

May 13, 2000, 03:11 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	FWIW, I vaguely remember something like that being sold as a sort of defense shotgun. It barely met the minimum barrel and minimum overall legal length. It really was a commercially made "sawed off shotgun". It disappeared quickly. There could have been some pressure applied, but I don't know that for a fact. I don't even remember that the maker was Savage, but your gun sounds a lot like it. If so, it should have a model number, as well as a serial number. I will do a little more checking and will let you know if I come up with anything. Jim

May 13, 2000, 06:20 PM	#6
dw Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 1999 Location: Bourbon, Indiana, USA Posts: 153	thanks jim i appreciate it!!!!

May 14, 2000, 07:16 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, dw, I think I tracked it down. As far as I can tell, it was not made by Savage. It is called the Snake Charmer, and is listed in the books under that name. It came out about 1978, with the maker listed as H. Koon, Dallas, TX. Later, the maker was listed as Bob Meese Co, of Carrollton, TX, and then Sporting Arms, with an address near that given for Koon. I don't know if those companies actually made the gun, or imported it, or had it made for them. Savage is not mentioned in my sources, although since it is listed in some alphabetical references right behind Savage and this could be misleading. The Blue Book indicates it is still made. It is a break open, single barrel shotgun, .410 only, with a kind of thumbhole stock. The basic gun is stainless steel with plastic stock, but there were other finishes. Overall length is 26 3/4 inches, barrel length is 18 3/4. There were versions called the Night Charmer and Sea Charmer, though I don't know what the differences were. The books list a price for NIB of around $175, 100% at about $150, and down to $25 for 60%. Jim

May 14, 2000, 08:20 PM	#8
dw Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 1999 Location: Bourbon, Indiana, USA Posts: 153	JIm thanks for the great info. Although the gun said savage arms directly on it and it wasn't a thumbhole stock. However i do think you are the closest anyone has came yet to the gun. thanks alot derek

May 15, 2000, 08:40 AM	#9
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	It's not the Snake Charmer series. That series has a polymer stock with brushed stainless barrel and action. The Night Charmer was essentially the same gun with a flashlight mounted on or in it (can't remember which). Years ago there was a Kimel Kamper produced, I believe, by Firearms International Inc. This was produced in 12 gauge only IIRC. It was placed in production in the mid-1970s (1974?). It had a skeleton under-folding stock with the lockout button in the all metal pistolgrip assembly. The folder could also be legally removed as the OAL and barrel length were sufficient without the stock. It was based on the Stevens Model 94 series and possessed the same features. Several of the parts are also apparantly interchangeable.

May 21, 2000, 01:22 PM	#10
dw Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 1999 Location: Bourbon, Indiana, USA Posts: 153	bttt dw