My Grandpa's M1 Carbine

Mosin-Marauder · July 10, 2014, 05:48 PM

My grandpa owns an M1 Carbine and what I think to be a later production model due to the Bayonet lug and graduated sights. Here are some pictures. I'd appreciate it if you guys could help me figure out the manufacturer and possibly a good price, as I intend tk buy it from him. There are some letters (which I presume to be words) underneath the rear sight the first letter that is visible is "U" and the last letter that I can see is "D". The U is the first letter and the D the last letter in the word, however I cannot see the entire word due to the rear sight blocking it. The only other things I can see on the rifle are "W" and the serial number. Any help you can provide would be appreciated. Thank you and sorry for rambling!

Jim Watson · July 10, 2014, 05:57 PM

Underwood was a carbine contractor, sounds like Grandpa's.

W is probably a Winchester part, whatever it is on. There was a lot of subcontracting and swapping around of parts, not to mention overhauls with whatever was available.

Mosin-Marauder · July 10, 2014, 06:00 PM

I heard there was a lot of that going on back then. I didn't see any import marks or anything so I assume it's a bring-back. Is there any way to define when It was made?

amd6547 · July 10, 2014, 08:42 PM

Made between July 1943 and March '44.

Cossack · July 10, 2014, 10:07 PM

Keep in mind that the late configuration, including sights, M2 stocks, and barrel band/bayonet lugs, doesn't mean that the carbine itself, as in the barrel and receiver, were built at a certain date. Carbines would be refurbished and outfitted with the latest parts, as Jim Watson pointed out.

I'd say this rifle would bring over $750. I've seen Blue Sky imported rifles (bought back from Korea) sell for between $650 and $750 this year, and your would be worth more, having no import mark. I don't think it would sell for more than $850...but I've seen carbines go crazy lately. Based on the last Gunshow here in Great Falls, I'd say $750-$800 would be fair, but $850 wouldn't be out of line.

It looks like a great gun! I love the carbine.

Mosin-Marauder · July 10, 2014, 10:54 PM

I've wanted to have it ever since I was a kid (listen at me talk like I'm an adult

). His rifle was really where I started becoming interested in Military history and later Military Surplus Rifles

.

9uc · July 10, 2014, 11:29 PM

Some what fond of the M1s myself. Carried one for a short while in early '69 when the AF M-16s were in short supply. Now own a '43 Inland that I have been correcting back to original as much as possible.

highpower3006 · July 11, 2014, 07:49 AM

Your Grandfathers carbine was made by Underwood early in 1944, probably in January or February. The barrel date would most likely be 11- 43 to 1-44 range. Sometime after the war, it was upgraded with the bayonet lug and adjustable rear sight.

The 'W' on the rear of the receiver indicates that the receiver was made by the Universal Winding Company in Cranston, RI, one of Universal's subcontractors.

Underwood made a total of 545617 carbines during the war. I believe that makes them the third largest producer behind Inland and Winchester.

Captains1911 · July 11, 2014, 08:01 AM

You might also want to ask over at the CMP forums, that's the best place for information regarding anything M1 Garand or Carbine.

smee78 · July 12, 2014, 09:10 AM

They are fun to shoot with no kick at all, my wife and I both have one and they are so fun. Surplus ammo is not out there like it use to be but can still be found, you may want to look into reloading to help keep the cost down. You can go through alot of ammo quick once the fun starts.

saitek · July 12, 2014, 02:47 PM

tell you what mosin marauder definitely it's a keeper 700.00 to 800.00 aintv out of the ball park just keep it in the family it's a proud piece of family heritage to not loose .

Mosin-Marauder · July 12, 2014, 03:10 PM

Oh, I should have mentioned. My grandpa (at least not this one) did not serve. He bought this rifle at a Rose's for $45 if I remember correctly. Nevertheless it still holds a lot of sentimental value.

Sevens · July 12, 2014, 03:33 PM

If your Grandpa is not destitute and you can absolutely agree with the idea that you'll keep it forever (keeping in mind that it's not simply a rifle, it's part of your family) then I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to pay him the "collectible" price that has been attached to M1 Carbine rifles in just the last 5+ years.

If Grandpa lives comfortably and doesn't eat at soup kitchens, give him $350 for that rifle with the absolute promise that as long as you are vertical, it stays in your family.

Mosin-Marauder · July 12, 2014, 03:47 PM

My grandma's grandpa's Remington 514 that she gave me a while back, she made me promise to never sell it and I plan to keep that promise. I plan to do the same if I get the M1.

My Grandpa is actually pretty well off, he owns his own business and everything. I've already got $200 saved up almost. I'll ask him about it eventually. I just don't really want to rush it, if you know what I mean. Anyeah, thanks for all your guys help. I'll be sure to tell everyone when I get it

.

RickB · July 12, 2014, 03:49 PM

That Carbine could use a good cleaning, no matter who owns it!
Loosen the screw on the barrel band (don't try to revove it, just loosen it enough that the band will slide forward and off the stock), lift the barreled action out, and if you don't want to mess with field-stripping it, hose it down with CLP and take a toothbrush to whatever you can reach.
There might be some letters stamped on the stock, where the sling would be recessed on the left side, indicating where it was rebuilt with the adjustable sight, bayo lug, M2 stock, etc., that were retrofitted after the war.
Mine is stamped "MR" for Mount Rainier Arsenal.

Mosin-Marauder · July 12, 2014, 03:59 PM

I'll ask him sometime if I can clean it. Any idea how to clean the bore?

10-96 · July 12, 2014, 09:16 PM

And just because it doesn't have an import mark doesn't mean it hasn't done time in Belgium, Germany, Italy, Greece, Austria(?), maybe even Korea (I think a very few of those came back to US control without going through an importer).

At the end of WWII we loaned M1 Carbines to various country's police, military, forestry services, etc. And upon their return sold off through DCM and possibly some other sources.

RickB · July 13, 2014, 10:07 AM

Quote:

I'll ask him sometime if I can clean it. Any idea how to clean the bore?

It has to be cleaned from the front, if you use a rod. A lot of Carbines do or did show a lot of muzzle wear, as a result. I'm just very careful, and use an old G.I. brass cleaning rod to try to reduce wear. You could also use a bore-snake or other pull-through system.

jrothWA · July 15, 2014, 10:09 AM

muzzle-guard.

Use a flashlight sideways under the rear sight, you should be able to read the maker.

Get a bolt takedown tool to DETAIL the bolt (clean and lube) this accounts for most firing / ejection problem.

Also, get a GI gas piston wrench and DETAIL the gas piston and gas housing to insure functioning. May need to run the proper number drill bit through the gas passage to remove fouling / jacket debris.

Lightly polish feed ramp to minimize "stuttering" of soft-nose ammo.

**4V50 Gary** · July 15, 2014, 10:28 AM

Get papers for it. Have your grandfather sign a statement describing it, when he got it, etc. and have it notarized. It'll be a family heirloom after that.

Mosin-Marauder · July 15, 2014, 10:46 AM

Would a Mosin muzzle guard work?

Also, where would I get Heirloom papers?

RickB · July 15, 2014, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Use a flashlight sideways under the rear sight, you should be able to read the maker.

If it starts with U and ends with D, it's pretty certainly made by Underwood.

Goatwhiskers · July 15, 2014, 12:21 PM

To protect the muzzle, get the barrel from a click type ball point pen. The inside is tapered just like the outside, so just cut back the small end until the cleaning rod will just pass thru. Put it on the rod and hold it against the muzzle while running the rod in and out. Did I mention that this is a free muzzle protector? GW

kilimanjaro · July 15, 2014, 12:30 PM

The heirloom paper is the document or letter you prepare, not a government form. Just write up the history and sign it. Name and service, how obtained, etc., are the things to attest.

It's just a family document so things don't become nebulous in 2114 AD.

sprouticus · July 16, 2014, 12:29 AM

I found this this website useful, plenty of good info.

http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/rifles.html

Better still, for good information are these two books.
http://www.amazon.com/Carbines-Warti...rds=m1+carbine

http://www.amazon.com/M1-carbine-own...rds=m1+carbine

Good luck with working on your Grandpa's rifle.
Before tearing into anything, study the procedures well.
You do not what to mess anything up.

One important point that I would pass on is this.
You should generally leave the gas piston alone.
Removal is neither required or recommended.

Carbines were designed to use non-corrosive ammo.
The nuts are staked in place and should only be removed if absolutely necessary.

I saw a post a while back where a guy attempted to remove the nut and cracked the gas block

Here is a thread from the CMP forum, talking about this.
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread....ght=gas+piston

Knowledge is power!

July 10, 2014, 05:48 PM	#1
Mosin-Marauder Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2014 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,320	My Grandpa's M1 Carbine My grandpa owns an M1 Carbine and what I think to be a later production model due to the Bayonet lug and graduated sights. Here are some pictures. I'd appreciate it if you guys could help me figure out the manufacturer and possibly a good price, as I intend tk buy it from him. There are some letters (which I presume to be words) underneath the rear sight the first letter that is visible is "U" and the last letter that I can see is "D". The U is the first letter and the D the last letter in the word, however I cannot see the entire word due to the rear sight blocking it. The only other things I can see on the rifle are "W" and the serial number. Any help you can provide would be appreciated. Thank you and sorry for rambling! __________________ Proud owner of three (four-ish) pieces of history! K-31, Mosin-Nagant M91/30, M24/47 Mauser, Norinco SKS. "You might as well appeal against a thunderstorm..." William Tecumseh Sherman Last edited by Mosin-Marauder; July 10, 2014 at 05:57 PM.

July 10, 2014, 06:00 PM	#3
Mosin-Marauder Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2014 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,320	I heard there was a lot of that going on back then. I didn't see any import marks or anything so I assume it's a bring-back. Is there any way to define when It was made? __________________ Proud owner of three (four-ish) pieces of history! K-31, Mosin-Nagant M91/30, M24/47 Mauser, Norinco SKS. "You might as well appeal against a thunderstorm..." William Tecumseh Sherman Last edited by Mosin-Marauder; July 10, 2014 at 07:24 PM.

July 10, 2014, 08:42 PM	#4
amd6547 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 2,313	Made between July 1943 and March '44. __________________ The past is gone...the future may never happen. Be Here Now.

July 10, 2014, 10:54 PM	#6
Mosin-Marauder Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2014 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,320	I've wanted to have it ever since I was a kid (listen at me talk like I'm an adult ). His rifle was really where I started becoming interested in Military history and later Military Surplus Rifles . __________________ Proud owner of three (four-ish) pieces of history! K-31, Mosin-Nagant M91/30, M24/47 Mauser, Norinco SKS. "You might as well appeal against a thunderstorm..." William Tecumseh Sherman

July 10, 2014, 11:29 PM	#7
9uc Member Join Date: July 8, 2014 Location: Republic of Texas Posts: 15	Some what fond of the M1s myself. Carried one for a short while in early '69 when the AF M-16s were in short supply. Now own a '43 Inland that I have been correcting back to original as much as possible. __________________ Then said He unto them.... he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36 RetiredUSAF, *Life Mrb NRA, DVA, VVA, VFW*

July 10, 2014, 05:57 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Underwood was a carbine contractor, sounds like Grandpa's. W is probably a Winchester part, whatever it is on. There was a lot of subcontracting and swapping around of parts, not to mention overhauls with whatever was available.

July 10, 2014, 10:07 PM	#5
Cossack Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2006 Posts: 260	Keep in mind that the late configuration, including sights, M2 stocks, and barrel band/bayonet lugs, doesn't mean that the carbine itself, as in the barrel and receiver, were built at a certain date. Carbines would be refurbished and outfitted with the latest parts, as Jim Watson pointed out. I'd say this rifle would bring over $750. I've seen Blue Sky imported rifles (bought back from Korea) sell for between $650 and $750 this year, and your would be worth more, having no import mark. I don't think it would sell for more than $850...but I've seen carbines go crazy lately. Based on the last Gunshow here in Great Falls, I'd say $750-$800 would be fair, but $850 wouldn't be out of line. It looks like a great gun! I love the carbine.

July 11, 2014, 07:49 AM	#8
highpower3006 Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2011 Location: Savannah TN Posts: 1,220	Your Grandfathers carbine was made by Underwood early in 1944, probably in January or February. The barrel date would most likely be 11- 43 to 1-44 range. Sometime after the war, it was upgraded with the bayonet lug and adjustable rear sight. The 'W' on the rear of the receiver indicates that the receiver was made by the Universal Winding Company in Cranston, RI, one of Universal's subcontractors. Underwood made a total of 545617 carbines during the war. I believe that makes them the third largest producer behind Inland and Winchester.

July 11, 2014, 08:01 AM	#9
Captains1911 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: West of the Blue Ridge, VA Posts: 684	You might also want to ask over at the CMP forums, that's the best place for information regarding anything M1 Garand or Carbine.

July 12, 2014, 09:10 AM	#10
smee78 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2008 Location: South Carolina Posts: 2,918	They are fun to shoot with no kick at all, my wife and I both have one and they are so fun. Surplus ammo is not out there like it use to be but can still be found, you may want to look into reloading to help keep the cost down. You can go through alot of ammo quick once the fun starts. __________________ We know exactly where one cow with Mad-cow-disease is located, among the millions and millions of cows in America, but we haven't got a clue where thousands of illegal immigrants and terrorists are

July 12, 2014, 02:47 PM	#11
saitek Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2011 Location: iowa Posts: 100	carbine tell you what mosin marauder definitely it's a keeper 700.00 to 800.00 aintv out of the ball park just keep it in the family it's a proud piece of family heritage to not loose .

July 12, 2014, 03:10 PM	#12
Mosin-Marauder Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2014 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,320	Oh, I should have mentioned. My grandpa (at least not this one) did not serve. He bought this rifle at a Rose's for $45 if I remember correctly. Nevertheless it still holds a lot of sentimental value. __________________ Proud owner of three (four-ish) pieces of history! K-31, Mosin-Nagant M91/30, M24/47 Mauser, Norinco SKS. "You might as well appeal against a thunderstorm..." William Tecumseh Sherman

July 12, 2014, 03:33 PM	#13
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	If your Grandpa is not destitute and you can absolutely agree with the idea that you'll keep it forever (keeping in mind that it's not simply a rifle, it's part of your family) then I don't think it makes a whole lot of sense to pay him the "collectible" price that has been attached to M1 Carbine rifles in just the last 5+ years. If Grandpa lives comfortably and doesn't eat at soup kitchens, give him $350 for that rifle with the absolute promise that as long as you are vertical, it stays in your family. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

July 12, 2014, 03:47 PM	#14
Mosin-Marauder Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2014 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,320	My grandma's grandpa's Remington 514 that she gave me a while back, she made me promise to never sell it and I plan to keep that promise. I plan to do the same if I get the M1. My Grandpa is actually pretty well off, he owns his own business and everything. I've already got $200 saved up almost. I'll ask him about it eventually. I just don't really want to rush it, if you know what I mean. Anyeah, thanks for all your guys help. I'll be sure to tell everyone when I get it . __________________ Proud owner of three (four-ish) pieces of history! K-31, Mosin-Nagant M91/30, M24/47 Mauser, Norinco SKS. "You might as well appeal against a thunderstorm..." William Tecumseh Sherman

July 12, 2014, 03:49 PM	#15
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	That Carbine could use a good cleaning, no matter who owns it! Loosen the screw on the barrel band (don't try to revove it, just loosen it enough that the band will slide forward and off the stock), lift the barreled action out, and if you don't want to mess with field-stripping it, hose it down with CLP and take a toothbrush to whatever you can reach. There might be some letters stamped on the stock, where the sling would be recessed on the left side, indicating where it was rebuilt with the adjustable sight, bayo lug, M2 stock, etc., that were retrofitted after the war. Mine is stamped "MR" for Mount Rainier Arsenal.

July 12, 2014, 03:59 PM	#16
Mosin-Marauder Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2014 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,320	I'll ask him sometime if I can clean it. Any idea how to clean the bore? __________________ Proud owner of three (four-ish) pieces of history! K-31, Mosin-Nagant M91/30, M24/47 Mauser, Norinco SKS. "You might as well appeal against a thunderstorm..." William Tecumseh Sherman

July 12, 2014, 09:16 PM	#17
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,159	And just because it doesn't have an import mark doesn't mean it hasn't done time in Belgium, Germany, Italy, Greece, Austria(?), maybe even Korea (I think a very few of those came back to US control without going through an importer). At the end of WWII we loaned M1 Carbines to various country's police, military, forestry services, etc. And upon their return sold off through DCM and possibly some other sources. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

July 15, 2014, 10:09 AM	#19
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,519	For Cleaning, try using a .22 rod (1-peice) with a muzzle-guard. Use a flashlight sideways under the rear sight, you should be able to read the maker. Get a bolt takedown tool to DETAIL the bolt (clean and lube) this accounts for most firing / ejection problem. Also, get a GI gas piston wrench and DETAIL the gas piston and gas housing to insure functioning. May need to run the proper number drill bit through the gas passage to remove fouling / jacket debris. Lightly polish feed ramp to minimize "stuttering" of soft-nose ammo.

July 15, 2014, 10:28 AM	#20
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	Get papers for it. Have your grandfather sign a statement describing it, when he got it, etc. and have it notarized. It'll be a family heirloom after that. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

July 15, 2014, 10:46 AM	#21
Mosin-Marauder Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2014 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,320	Would a Mosin muzzle guard work? Also, where would I get Heirloom papers? __________________ Proud owner of three (four-ish) pieces of history! K-31, Mosin-Nagant M91/30, M24/47 Mauser, Norinco SKS. "You might as well appeal against a thunderstorm..." William Tecumseh Sherman Last edited by Mosin-Marauder; July 15, 2014 at 10:56 AM.

July 15, 2014, 12:21 PM	#23
Goatwhiskers Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2009 Location: Batchelor, La. Posts: 579	To protect the muzzle, get the barrel from a click type ball point pen. The inside is tapered just like the outside, so just cut back the small end until the cleaning rod will just pass thru. Put it on the rod and hold it against the muzzle while running the rod in and out. Did I mention that this is a free muzzle protector? GW

July 15, 2014, 12:30 PM	#24
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	The heirloom paper is the document or letter you prepare, not a government form. Just write up the history and sign it. Name and service, how obtained, etc., are the things to attest. It's just a family document so things don't become nebulous in 2114 AD.

July 16, 2014, 12:29 AM	#25
sprouticus Member Join Date: September 17, 2011 Location: Minnesota Posts: 38	I found this this website useful, plenty of good info. http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/rifles.html Better still, for good information are these two books. http://www.amazon.com/Carbines-Warti...rds=m1+carbine http://www.amazon.com/M1-carbine-own...rds=m1+carbine Good luck with working on your Grandpa's rifle. Before tearing into anything, study the procedures well. You do not what to mess anything up. One important point that I would pass on is this. You should generally leave the gas piston alone. Removal is neither required or recommended. Carbines were designed to use non-corrosive ammo. The nuts are staked in place and should only be removed if absolutely necessary. I saw a post a while back where a guy attempted to remove the nut and cracked the gas block Here is a thread from the CMP forum, talking about this. http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread....ght=gas+piston Knowledge is power!