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Old August 28, 2013, 11:54 PM   #1
bledsoeG19
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357 mag and lead loads

How fast can you push a bare lead 158 gr bullet (92/6/2 with an average brinell of 15) before seeing leading or accuracy issues?
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Old August 29, 2013, 12:07 AM   #2
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The question is oversimplified, unfortunately. There are more variables than just BNH and velocity. Every gun is different with different dimensions. Leading can occur with too hot or too mild of a round. The variables go on and on.

On the hot side, it's not velocity, but pressure that causes leading. This is a huge subject and is not simple by any means.

That said, I have a 158g LSWC round that I load (BNH 18) that goes about 1050 fps. After about 60 rounds, the gun is leaded up a bit (considerable buildup at the breech) and it's time for a cleaning. I'm good with that. I have no desire to push any further.

Now there's going to be a ton of posts on this subject, most likely. Hold on tight lol.
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Old August 29, 2013, 04:42 AM   #3
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Like Nick said, there are a lot of variables. In a perfect world, to top end velocities for the caliber.

But throw in fit, lube, barrel roughness, powder used, such and so forth and all sorts of issues arise.

I'm shooting a 158gr over a load of Blue Dot to around 1300'ish with no issues what so ever. The alloy is a touch softer than what you posted in a 1.75/1.75/96.5 or pretty close to that anyway, and runs around a 12 on my scale.

To gather how fat YOU can run that one will simply be trial and error with the load development. IF everything is good, you should easily be able to hit the 1300 - 1400 area with some of the slower powders like AA5,7, or possibly 2400.
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Old August 29, 2013, 07:38 AM   #4
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I completely agree with Mike. BHN 15 should be good for 1300-1400 with minimal leading. I have pushed some 18-20 BHN Keith style bullets past 1600 out of a .44 Magnum with only a few lead streaks in the bore.

However, the BASE of the bullet makes a difference as well. In my experience, a flat base will handle more pressure and velocity without leading than a bevel base will, all other things being equal.
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Old August 29, 2013, 12:17 PM   #5
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I'll agree with the other guys with one exception--how long is the barrel on your revolver? I wouldn't expect 1300 - 1400 fps out of a 2.5" model 19 for example.

That said, I routinely push my 158 grain SWCs (aircooled wheel weight alloy) to 1300 - 1350 fps with my 4" model 28 and have no significant leading.
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Old August 29, 2013, 06:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
with an average brinell of 15
.... That is what I use 12-15. I haven't shot jacketed in along time now.... I don't push my .357 above 1100fps as I don't need too.... But have pushed .44Mag up to 1333fps with no significant leading with BHN of 15 or so.... As said above, there is a lot of variables. My guns have no problem, but your guns may have constrictions in the barrel, tight throats, forcing cone issues, bullet fit, etc.... All contributors to leading.
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Old August 29, 2013, 07:30 PM   #7
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With a BHN of 15 try around 1100 fps with a good alox lube and some Universal powder and see what happens. That's what I have luck with..Like said previously throats,chambers,forcing cones,and the biggie, bullet design all play a part. I use Hodgedon Alox but I've used others. I hear people say 900 fps or below ,but I know better.
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Old August 29, 2013, 07:47 PM   #8
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158gr +

1254 fps average over my old chronograph years ago. Using Alliant 2400 powder-14gr. This load may be to hot with some components. So i now use a slower loading of 12.5gr. How fast it goes, i dont know. Sold Chronograph. My home cast are on the heavy side, about 163 gr. S&W M28 with 6" barrel. [IMG][/IMG]

Last edited by 243winxb; August 29, 2013 at 07:52 PM. Reason: add photo
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Old August 29, 2013, 08:29 PM   #9
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+1 for 12.5 grains of 2400 and 158grn lswc. No leading in my revolver or lever action. I also use unique for my .357 mag lead rounds.
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Old August 29, 2013, 09:06 PM   #10
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OOoopps!
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Old August 29, 2013, 09:15 PM   #11
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243, 12.5 gr. should have ya in the 1100-1150 range & a good swc at that speed, by sheer design will do good at what needs shootin !

Now , any lead bullet will lead if it`s undersized ,I don`t care if it`s hard as woodpecker lips !! if gas gets by it`ll leave lead behind !!!

I run my isotope alloy with 1% tin added for 12-12.5 bhn & it`ll start skidding the riflin at `bout 1250fps or so & can turn the same bullet down to 850 fps with no leading , because they fit my revolvers !!

Luck of the draw on my GPs , I think not !!

First I completely remove all copper & polish throats/mop bore with either JB bore paste or FLITZ. check for ruffness with a patch, do the best i can to polish the forcing cone a bit ,but best done with a reamer.

Measure throats by sluggin & sluggin bore at both ends

Check the numbers , ream the throats to match or a bit over bore dia.
Size my fodder to as big as will reliably chamber !

Load em up & enjoy safely !!





Here`s a Barebottomed 358156 HP runnin at 1150 into wet sand ,seeing if the nose would shed off but it held !!& is soft enuff to do the same thing in water jugs at 900 fps.



These leading threads need pics ,so enjoy !!

GP
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Old August 29, 2013, 10:11 PM   #12
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I'm pushing a 200gr lead RN through my 30-06 to 1,950fps with simple Lyman
#2 (measured BHN: 14.9), so lead "hardness" is not the limiter, nor is speed
(within reason). Bullet fit relative to GROOVE dia and LUBE (I suggest ALOX)
ARE discriminators.

Revolvers get a little messy because the bullet gets re-sized coming through the
cylinder throat -- and if the cylinder throat is smaller than the bore -- you are in trouble.

Guess who invariably produces too-small cylinder throats for lead bullets ?
Right. You guessed it. Ruger.

I've just finished reaming out the cylinder* on my new(er) Ruger BH to 0.4525".
(Prior to that, the throats were as small as 0.450 (!)

So check the throats in your 357. A bore-sized bullet should pass through/out
the cylinder with just a slight hesitant push from a pencil. If it doesn't, that
bullet is going to get squeezed too small to seal the bore in transition to the
barrel, AND you'r going to strip lead off in chunks left in the cylinder itself
after a few rounds.

Ask me how I know....





* Brownells carries the required reamers.

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Old August 30, 2013, 05:38 AM   #13
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My 7.5" 357 Redhawk does not care how fast I push lead bullets.

My pair of 4" GP100s both do.
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Old August 30, 2013, 10:47 AM   #14
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May not be worth much, but I once overloaded my .357 Magnum with True Blue (yes, my mistake. I accept full responsibility, no excuses). I believe it was 1.3 gr. over max. Lachmiller cast 158 gr. plain base SWC from wheel weights. True Blue max. ran over 1300 fps, so my load was prolly 1400+ fps. I shot 6 in my 4" Taurus .357 Magnum (I had been shooting my .44 Magnum Ruger, so I didn't notice any extra recoil, just a bit more "bite"). The rounds fired and accuracy was average and when I opened the cylinder, the spent primers fell out. I had to use a mallet to remove the brass and quickly inspected the gun. NO LEADING in the barrel. I always size the bullets to fit my guns so that's why I got no leading, not from BHN or velocity...
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Old August 30, 2013, 09:50 PM   #15
bledsoeG19
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Wow. A bunch of posts on this one haha. Thanks to all for the help. Im buying these bullets sized and pre lubed from a local guy. Using them in 38 spl loads over 4 gr unique. No leading at all. But significantly slow compared to what you guys are saying for 357 loads. Guess I need to do some measuring and some test runs.
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Old September 1, 2013, 07:06 AM   #16
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Try loading them first.

If things go awry THEN measure and stuff (I always --as in WITHOUT EXCEPTION-- weigh and measure a sample from EVERY box I open.
I weigh them on a RCBS 505, calibrated first with check weights, and I measure diameter with a ten-thou mike. No guessing.).
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