1858 Rem for Hunting

[Huntzalittle]

After reading several of the posts on using BP pistols I am wondering "what practical value does a .45 cal, 1858 Remington revolver have for hunting purposes?"
It seems that many suggest it is marginal for most anything but small game and with a .45 cal bullet, it wouldn't seem practical for meat or fur harvest. While they sound like a bunch of fun to shoot targets with or play cowboy, what value would they be to the hunter or outdoor sportsperson?

[45Marlin carbine]

a max charge of powder and a cast slug will do the job when bullet placement is correct and range is limited. many states they aren't legal to hunt game aninals with but can be used on nuisance animals. In N.C. wild/feral hogs are classed as such and I have used my '58 and ROA for them.

[williamfeldmann]

I read in an earlier thread that at least someone has taken pigs with a buffalo 1858, and a couple people have taken whitetails with a regular 8 inch. I was wondering how much more energy the longer barrel provided.

I was looking at the long barrel Remington for hunting whitetails here in Iowa, the range would be to a max of about 40-45 yards. I have taken whitetails at that range with a .357 and 40 S&W. I can't believe that a Remington with a hot load would have less power than the .40 at that range. Plus the buffalo has adjustable sights and a longer sight radius for even better accuracy.

Does anyone have some ballistics info for buffalo model Remington with various loads they can give me? Or even better ,first hand information on what kind of a difference accuracy and power wise a buffalo model provides?

[Hawg]

"what practical value does a .45 cal, 1858 Remington revolver have for hunting purposes?"

IMHO none. It'll do the job if you're good enough and the range is short enough, say under 25 yds. There's those that will say it's fine up to 45-50 yds. but IMHO it's too chancy for a good kill.

[freedom475]

More and more people are mislead to think it takes a minimum of at least a 300RUM to harvest an animal cleanly. This is stupidity in action...The same states that say you are forbiden to waste any edible portion of a game animal also say its OK and sometimes mandatory to use a rifle that is big enough to Blow both shoulders off a game animal, rendering half of the animal unfit for food??????? Does this sound sensible???

We are loosing/giving up our rights to hunt with the guns that have cleanly killed and in some cases almost extincted entire species of amimals.

State Governments that know Nothing about hunting and guns are making laws that make no sense..... FT LBS. of energy have very little to do with a guns killing power.

Buffalo were shot and KILLED for sport from the back of a horse with CAP&BALL colts. Custer was known to have accidentaly killed a few of the horses he was ridding doing just that.

Don't be fooled.....The old 45 cap&ball will kill game just fine....especially something as small and soft as a Whitetail.

[tatso7]

Three years ago while bowhunting in Central Cali (Fort Hunter Ligget) me and my partner were stalking a group of of wild hogs in a watering hole. My partner took a shot at a 90 pounder but for some reason his arrow went wide and hit near the hogs butt. Then hell broke loss, hogs running in all direction. We ran to an elevated area as couples of huge hogs tried to charge at us. I was carrying an 1858 Remington with case hardened frame from Cabelas which I converted to 45 LC with Kirst cylinder that I loaded with Remington Express 45 colt. Midway USA website listed the ballistics of this ammo as 250 grains. 860 fps with 410 ft lbs of KE. Taking aim at one at about ten yards broadside below our elevated spot, first shot hit the hog in the kill zone and he hit the ground. He tried to get up as I follow up with two shots to the body and one to the head. The hog moved about 6 feet from his original position before he belly up. The processor weighted the hog at 204 lbs. He also recovered two fully expanded bullets.

[grymster2007]

Midway USA website listed the ballistics of this ammo as 250 grains. 860 fps with 360 ft lbs of KE.

360 sounded a bit low, so I calculated, then double checked Midway's site to find 410 ft/lbs energy. In any case I think 250 gr. of lead at 860 fps will put a hurt on any 200 lb. animal.

[mykeal]

many suggest it is marginal for most anything but small game and with a .45 cal bullet, it wouldn't seem practical for meat or fur harvest.

And for many that's true. For a few, those whose hunting skills include tracking and stalking and can get close to their prey, it's not true. As Hawg said, get within a practical range with the skill to shoot it and it will work.

[Osage]

Missouri lists the minimum caliber for BP hunting at 40. They don't list minimum charges so that leaves a pretty wide range of possibilities.

[Raider2000]

I've copied & pasted what I mentioned in a previous thread regarding this...

A C&B Revolver is quite capable of taking Deer size game at reasonable "40 yards or less" range but the weapon & person has to be in unison when taking on the challenge of hunting Game with a C&B Revolver.

Loads should be on the heavy side to achieve the most effective energy required to take these larger game & ofcorse practice, practice, & more practice is in order for the person to know what he/she & their weapon is capable of at those maximum distances.

Round ball is the most popular projectile with a charge of 35+ grains of powder would produce very positive results but a good conical like the ones cast from Lee's molds "of Pure Lead" with a charge of 28+ grains of powder will produce a slightly heavier striking energy than a Ball would but like mykeal mentioned they do not expand as much as a ball would.

With this information, the person has to have a little more patience, & reservation like an Archer to wait for the closest shots so that a clean Killing shot is possible, I hunt with Archery gear mostly with only on occasion with my Muzzle Loader & for over 25 years I have followed a simple but effective rule in taking game with my Bow & would be a good one for the Black Powder Pistol hunter.
20 Yard Rule.
I can keep my broad heads in a 3" group nearly all day at 60 yards at the target range.
I refuse to try a shot at any animal past 40 yards.
I know that my Archery gear & I am very capable of taking even Elk out at the 60 yard range but in the woods there are variables that cannot be controlled like can be at the target range & lessening the range by 20 yards will give me the confidence & the know that I can cleanly take an animal with no regrets of me making that bad shot that I could have avoided.
Following a similar rule in Black Powder Pistol hunting will not only make you a more ethical & responsible hunter but will also make the hunt that much more satisfying that you got that close to your quarry.

[BP pistol hunter]

A 44 or 45 cal good quality cap and ball pistol loaded with stout charges of 777 powder, a wad and ball have more than plenty of power to cleanly take deer and wild hogs out to 50 yards. I hunt in Florida with a stainless 1858 pietta bison revolver with a 12 inch barrel and I have chronographed 1200 fps out of my revolver with 35gr of 777 and a 141gr .454 ball. I have checked this with several of my friends chrony and it is an accurate reading. I invite you to chronograph this load and you will become a believer. This combo will produce 450 ftlbs of energy, it is extremely accurate out to 50 yards and has performed flawlessly. I have taken several nice wild hogs with this combo and none have gone more than 15 yards with most dead before they hit the ground. this load produces devastating impacts with massive wound channels due to the soft lead expanding and basically dumping all its energy on the target. 777 is a very powerful alternative to black powder but it does not liked to be compressed too much. I have loaded up to 40 gr of powder with an increase in power but accuracy starts falling off. 777 has boosted cap and ball revolvers to a whole new level.

[salvadore]

This is how I dispatched charging ground squirrels 30+ years ago, but I didn't think I had enough guns so I went to the 58 to stop viscious attacks of killer rodents.



I think a careful well practiced shooter could take a deer sized animal.