April 29, 2009, 05:24 AM | #1 |
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Pilot buying/flying with guns
Just thinking about this, and wanted to know where the law stood. I did a search and saw alot of stuff about staying out of Chicago and NYC, but didn't see anything about flying after buying. Can a pilot, just a normal pilot, no special licenses aside from a Texas Hunter's Education, buy a gun in another state, and bring it back to Texas with him/her? I know that flying with a gun is okay, but don't know about buying and flying.
Last edited by Dust; April 29, 2009 at 11:13 PM. |
April 29, 2009, 07:01 AM | #2 |
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Depends on the length of the gun as well as the state.
A long gun you probably could, depending on the state... a short / hand gun no.
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April 29, 2009, 08:29 AM | #3 |
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This one is addressed in Federal law:
A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-state source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's state of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer. [18 U. S. C 922(a)( 3)and (5), 922( b)(3), 27 CFR 178.29] A person may “sell” a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his or her state (you the visitor in another state), if the buyer is not prohibited by law from receiving or possessing a firearm, or to a licensee in any state. A firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector. [18 U. S. C 922(a)( 3) and (5), 922( b)( 3), 27 CFR 178.29] Link added: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/legal/interstate.htm |
April 29, 2009, 09:07 AM | #4 | |
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Federal law prohibits U.S. residents without a Federal Firearms License (FFL) from buying a handgun out-of-state. Handgun purchases must go through a FFL in your home state. If you want to buy a handgun at an out-of-state dealer, they must send it to a dealer in your home state, who will then transfer it to you.
An out-of-state dealer FFL may sell you a long gun (rifle or shotgun) as long as the transaction is conducted over-the-counter at their officially licensed place of business {27 CFR § 478.29(b)}. This usually means that you may not buy at a gun show. I have, however, heard of instances where a gun show purchase was arranged by sending the gun to the official business location for later pickup by the buyer, or arranging for the buyer to pick up an identical gun from inventory. An out-of-state collector or Curio & Relic (C&R) FFL may sell you a C&R-eligible long gun anywhere as long as the transaction occurs face-to-face. The license is granted to an individual, so that person is the "place of business". However, to reiterate, this rule is only valid for C&R-eligible firearms. Section 46.07 of the Texas Penal Code could theoretically be interpreted to prohibit a Texas resident from buying firearms in states that aren't contiguous, i.e. states other than LA, AR, OK, and NM. Quote:
Mandatory disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. This is not official legal advice. YMMV.
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April 29, 2009, 09:22 AM | #5 | |
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How does that get around the "firearm" verbage cited in 27 CFR 178.29. The chicken or the egg? Update? I'm just confused on that. |
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April 29, 2009, 10:51 AM | #6 | |
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April 29, 2009, 11:00 AM | #7 |
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Hmmm....I missed that up somewhere
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April 29, 2009, 11:11 AM | #8 | ||
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Quote:
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April 29, 2009, 07:06 PM | #10 |
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Lets clarify that the only guns being purchased will be by a lawabiding citizen with no record, and the guns will only be long guns.
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April 29, 2009, 09:34 PM | #11 |
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Clarify again. COmmercial pilot
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April 29, 2009, 09:38 PM | #12 |
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I'm trying to figure out what his profession has to do with purchasing guns.
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April 29, 2009, 10:21 PM | #13 |
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It is a felony to have any kind of gun (longgun, licensed CCW, anything) in a secure area of a Texas airport. I'm assuming there is some exception for armed pilots (I don't know the laws on that), as I'm sure they have to get the gun on the plane somehow. I had just messaged Dust to see if he knew the rules for commercial pilots carrying to and from the plane.
Not so much applicable for the buying, but possibly a consideration for the transporting. |
April 29, 2009, 10:43 PM | #14 | ||
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You can purchase a C&R long gun from a C&R FFL at any location. Certain states have regulations regarding firearms sales that affect everyone who comes in their door, including residents of other states. This includes several states on the East Coast, CA, and IL. The restrictions are too complex to easily explain here. If traveling to these areas, I recommend contacting the FFL in advance to learn what hurdles you may encounter. However, in most states near TX, you will be fine. Quote:
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April 29, 2009, 10:49 PM | #15 |
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I guess I just figured a pilot who wished to transport a personal firearm would do so in checked baggage just like a passenger.
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April 29, 2009, 11:06 PM | #16 |
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His profession has a lot to do with it. He has the ability to pick up a gun, and travel across several state lines in a single day. I am wondering what laws would apply to pilots, being that they travel all over the country/world. I would like to ask him to pick up something in another state and bring it back, instead of having to register the purchase with the government and pay to ship it. Put in in a case, with the gun unloaded.disabled, and checked as baggage, what problems would he have flying within the US?
Last edited by Dust; April 29, 2009 at 11:11 PM. |
April 29, 2009, 11:18 PM | #17 | |
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April 29, 2009, 11:22 PM | #18 |
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I'll talk to him and see what he knows. I don't know if he is willing to do it, just wanted to check legality before asking.
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April 29, 2009, 11:48 PM | #19 | ||
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April 30, 2009, 01:44 AM | #20 |
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Hmmm. A pilot huh. So...you're someone who piles in from one place to another.
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April 30, 2009, 06:34 AM | #21 |
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I think we've all of a sudden stepped deep into a lot of stuff
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April 30, 2009, 10:01 AM | #22 | ||
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In my earlier posts, I thought you were the pilot. Regardless of whether he flies with it or not, asking your friend to buy a gun for you is clearly illegal unless he gives you the gun as a gift and receives absolutely no compensation of any kind in return. Also, just FYI, the Form 4473 and the NICS check are not a form of government registration. The FFL normally keeps the 4473s and no records are kept of the NICS checks after they're done. Quote:
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April 30, 2009, 02:13 PM | #23 |
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Multiple felonies would be committed if the pilot bought the gun out of state on behalf of the OP. It would be a straw purchase - period. It does not matter if the final recipient of the gun was legal to purchase/possess that gun or not. So that would be felony number 1 comitted by the pilot.
Felony #2 would be the OP aiding and abetting the pilot making the straw purchase. Felony #3 would be the OP actually obtaining the gun from an out of source not exempted by 18 USC 922 (b)(3), via using a middle man to obtain that gun. Felony #4 would be the Pilot aiding and abetting the OP in his obtaining a gun from an out of state source illegally. I would be willing to bet $100 against a doughnut that the pilot would lose his commercial pilot's license. Even if he did not lose his license, I would bet that transportation of personal weapons by pilots (other than for official duty), except MAYBE in checked baggage, would be against airline policy and get him fired. Now that apparently it appears as if Dust wants the pilot to buy him a gun from out of state, that, of course, puts everything in new light. Of course, Dust wasn't going to be right up front at the beginning and say so. |
May 6, 2009, 08:51 AM | #24 |
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what about looking at it this way... and I'm sure there is some kind of
lawyering that will cause it not to work...
I send you the money for the gun... the 'Pilot' flies to your state and picks up the gun with proper documentation (What my FFL will require) ... he or she is now the 'common carrier' and they take it back to my state where I or they deliver it to my FFL for the transfer to me.... I know this does not meet the needs or question of the original poster... but is there some kind of rule that says out of state purchases have to be shipped / transported via UPS/ Fed ex or USPS? Why can't a 'citizen' do the transport? |
May 6, 2009, 01:52 PM | #25 | |
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Quote:
An individual or business that advertises to the public that it is available for hire to transport people or property in exchange for a fee. A common carrier is legally bound to carry all passengers or freight as long as there is enough space, the fee is paid, and no reasonable grounds to refuse to do so exist. A common carrier that unjustifiably refuses to carry a particular person or cargo may be sued for damages. The states regulate common carriers engaged in business within their borders. When interstate or foreign transportation is involved, the federal government, by virtue of the Commerce Clause of the Constitution, regulates the activities of such carriers. A common carrier may establish reasonable regulations for the efficient operation and maintenance of its business. West's Encyclopedia of American Law, edition 2. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved. The pilot is not a common carrier. I suppose it would be OK for him to act as a contract carrier, but I would want that contract to be in writing! And it would have to be a private sale, as you pointed out. |
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