Please check my loading

[Habaz72]

I loaded my first 20 rounds of .45 acp today to be used in my 5in barrel 1911 (RIA Tactical). My ultimate goal is to have a reloaded bullet that will feel the same (recoil/accuracy) as my SD ammo which is Federal Hydra shok 230gr. But I don't think I'll get there any time soon with the bullets and powder I purchased.

I'm using rainer 230 grain RN bullets and Bullseye powder. I found on the rainer site suggesting to use load data for lead bullets but the Alliant website doesn't give a load for lead in 230 grain. So I searched this forum and other sites (handloads.com) and found various loads in the 4.5 up to 5.0 range for this powder and an OAL of 1.2. When I checked a few federal FMJ bullets I have in the ammo can they were 1.26. So I used one of those bullets to set up my die.

The final load I have now is 4.6 of BE powder for the 230 FMJ (use Lead data) and an OAL of 1.26. This is probably going to be a very light recoil round but I'm trying to stay on the side of caution.

I broke the gun down and dropped each completed round in the barrel then inverted the barrel to watch them fall out freely and compared the fit with my factory ammo. I assembled the gun and loaded up a magazine and hand cycled my reloads to ensure they fed/extracted/ejected properly. On each round I flipped up the thumb safety to ensure the slide lock engaged.

I checked the OAL again and found that 4 of my rounds are now about 1.24 OAL, I think this must be not enough crimp? This is still longer than the 1.2 listed on handloads and on the chart that came with my Lee dies so I think they are still good to shoot.

I'm looking for any feedback or any glaring mistakes I may have made with these first handloads before I go to the range on Saturday to test them out.

[Kayser]

I checked the OAL again and found that 4 of my rounds are now about 1.24 OAL, I think this must be not enough crimp?

That should not be happening, crimp or no crimp. Did you resize your brass? How much did you bell the case mouth? If you belled it, you should just barely be able to see the flare when looking at the case in profile.

[Habaz72]

I did a full resize (lee 4 die carbide set using lee hand press) and flared the case mouth according to the instructions for the press/dies and the sticky thread about loading LRN bullets:

Now the case mouth should be expanded or "belled" until a bullet just starts in, and will set there without doing a balancing act.

Then I used the crimp die at the end of the process... only to remove the rest of that bell.

I've read (maybe an urban legend?) that repeated chambering of ammo could cause the bullet to recess into the case from hitting the feed ramp often enough. That's why I thought I may have not crimped quite enough

[Kayser]

Apologies, as I read it initially that you were seeing the setback from simply dropping the round into the disassembled barrel. That would be disturbingly loose.

0.02" of setback after a full force chambering seems a little high, but I honestly don't have a basis of comparison - I've never tried measuring it.

I use the Lee 4-die sets as well. I'd recommend maybe another 1/4 turn on the crimp die. It is difficult to actually determine how much you've crimped with a taper crimp, since by it's very nature it's just a big squeeze. My general criteria has always been - you get a reasonable amount of "stick" as you lower the ram, you can see a little metal brightening at the top, say 1/2 mm of case mouth along with a slightly perceptible decrease in radius that would indicate a good squeeze.

I would love to hear how others measure for "sufficient crimp" using a taper crimp die.

[Jim243]

Put a finished round as you have your dies setup now into the factory crimp die, bring your ram with a loaded round all the way up. by hand turn your factory crimp die till it is tight on the case lower the ram and turn the die down 1/8th of a turn, bring the ram back up all the way. Take your loaded round out and place it face (bullet) down on your bench and press your thumb on the case and push. If you can push the bullet into the case, it is still not crimped enough and you need to turn your die another 1/8th turn and try again.

The best way to do this is with a dummy round (no primer or powder in the case). Once you get the crimp set (where you can not push the bullet into the case), put the dummy round into your barrel and make sure that the mouth of the case will index properly and not fall into the barrel and is sitting properly in the chamber. (lock down your die, your crimp is now set).

If all else fails you need to get different bullets that will crimp properly. (bullets are cheap guns are not.)
Jim

[PA-Joe]

You did not say what the recommended COL is for the rainer 230 grain RN bullet. Use the manufacturer's COL.

[Habaz72]

@Kayser: Thanks, I'll look for that brightening around the case mouth, didn't think to look for that.

@Jim243: I press on the bullet as hard as I can to see if it sets back? I'll give that a try after work today.

@PA-Joe: What's the difference between OAL and COL? Rainer suggests using data for lead bullets but does not give their own load charts. The alliant website doesn't give load data for a 230gr LRN bullet for use with Bullseye powder. On handloads website it says OAL of 1.2 for LRN using 5gr of Bullseye. The ammo I made is a bit longer because I was trying to approximate the factory Federal ammo that feeds reliably through my weapon. As I understand it (please correct me if I'm wrong): The OAL in the loading charts is supposed to be a minimum so as not to cause too much pressure in the chamber. The max length should be determined by guaging the finished round in the chamber of the weapon to be used with the ammo to ensure proper headspace and to hand cycle the ammo to ensure it's not too long for the magazine.

[chris in va]

Then I used the crimp die at the end of the process... only to remove the rest of that bell.

The FCD isn't needed with 45acp. Just tweak the seating die to remove the bell back to straight wall. Loaded thousands for my Sig and Glock, no setback with LRN.

[Red Dog]

Single stage or progressive press? If progressive make sure to have shell plate full when setting OAL.

[Habaz72]

I now realize that I don't need the 4th die that came in the set but I have it so I'm going to put it to use. And I'm using the Lee Hand Press (giant stapler). When I'm sure I know what I'm doing with reloading and I've shown my wife that I can "save money" by reloading I plan on requesting additional funding to buy the Lee Classic Turet press. Add a set of dies for .38spl so I can fine tune a tame load for use in her LCR so she can get some quality practice time in and I'll be a happy camper.

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions and ideas. Really appreciate it.

[PA-Joe]

Each bullet has a different nose shape and therefore you cannot use one measurement to set the other. Particularly if you are comparing a factory jacketed bullet to a lead bullet. Lead bullets normally have a larger diameter to start with. I would try 10 at 1.2. OAL = COL

[Lost Sheep]

If you are really keen on tailoring your loads, a chronograph is definitely in your future. If not now, then you will get one later (and kick yourself for not doing it sooner).

They cost from $100 on up.

Get one with a remote readout (usually tethered to the main unit with a phone cord-like wire). That way, when you eventually shoot the instrument, it won't cost so much to replace (and also is easier to use).

Don't say "I won't shoot my instrument." My first one lasted exactly one day at the range. My friend (who is a better shot than I am, by the way) put a 22 rimfire right through the center of the readout screen. My current one has the remote readout and the detection instrument wears armor.

Lost Sheep