Model 617 6 to 10 shot conversion?

ChrisR · April 4, 2009, 05:12 PM

Hi all, I have a 6 shot M617, 6" (.22LR). I see one can buy a 10 shot cylinder which is drop in as far as I can tell? The thing is the timing of the arm which actuates the cylinder (I don't know the correct part names yet). Has anyone done a mod such as this? I'd be interested to know if it is straightforward to near impossible.

Hommbs · April 5, 2009, 01:24 AM

S&W will convert it to a 10 shooter. I recall reading it costs around $150 or so to have them do it.

ChrisR · April 5, 2009, 05:51 AM

Good to know it can be done. Having S&W do it is not an option though as I'm in New Zealand. I just need to get the parts. I have the cylinder assembly coming, I'm wondering what else I need.

kle · April 5, 2009, 09:48 AM

You'd need either to buy the appropriate 10-shot hand, or to shave-down a 6-shot hand to make it into a 10-shot hand, to get the cylinder to index right. The "hand" (or pawl, if we're talking Colts or Rugers) is the part that pushes on the ratchet (the teeth) in the extractor star to rotate the cylinder while the trigger/hammer is being worked.

(6-shot on the left, 10-shot on the right)

~~Everything else is the same, I believe.~~ Hmm...maybe the angles of the hands are slightly different; I wonder if you could shave the hand to a different width to compensate, or if it even matters (the 10-shot hand is 0.043" in this picture, but it's old and worn (2 years and 13000 rounds, when I was new and stupid and didn't really take care of my guns) and was causing slow timing, so it probably needs to be about 0.045" to work properly).

But aside from that, you shouldn't need any other parts.

Casimer · April 5, 2009, 09:48 AM

You'll need a new 'hand' - i.e. the arm which extends through the frame to drive the cylinder rotation. Apparently the hand used for a 6-shot can be modified for the 10-shot, but S&W may be able to provide one designed specifically for the 10-shot.

* kle beat me to it :P

abber · April 5, 2009, 11:09 AM

I doubt a new hand would cost very much. See if Numrich sells them. They give the best prices usually. Always better to use the part made for the application, unless you use a good smith (or are a good smith).

I have a 4 inch, 10 shot 617. It is a fantastic gun.

Dfariswheel · April 5, 2009, 05:44 PM

Fair warning.
Revolver cylinders DO NOT just "drop in". They have to be extensively fitted, adjusted, and gaged.
This is NO JOB for anyone but a true professional pistolsmith who's well trained on cylinder work if you want a properly functioning and accurate revolver.

Fitting a new cylinder starts out with fitting an ejector to the cylinder, then fitting that assembly to the cylinder yoke and then to the frame.

Among other adjustments and checks are:
Cylinder end shake.
Head space.
Timing (on converting to a 10 shot, this means new action parts, and adjusting for proper timing on all 10.
Barrel/chamber alignment on all 10 chambers.

ChrisR · April 5, 2009, 06:13 PM

Thanks for all the great answers. I'm not a smith though I do have some skills in that area and I know some smiths so I should be ok. I will try to get the replacement arm though having said that the amount of paperwork just to get the cylinder out of the States was bad enough. I'm not looking forward to having to do that again though hopefully this part is not something the US state department is likely to worry about.

ChrisR · April 5, 2009, 07:09 PM

I expect this is the part required. I'll order the pin and spring as well. Any other bits I may need?

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/Sch...px?schemid=618

30 210650000
940-210-650 Hand, Oversize
Fits $15.14

kle · April 5, 2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisR

I expect this is the part required. I'll order the pin and spring as well. Any other bits I may need?

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/Sch...px?schemid=618

30 210650000
940-210-650 Hand, Oversize
Fits $15.14

Er, what pin/spring? Oh, the Hand pin and Hand torsion spring? Nah, you don't need those--those are already installed in the trigger--the hand pin was for the "floating hands" which no one liked (and which you most likely don't have), and the spring is to keep the hand engaged in the ratchets--you already have this part, and it isn't very likely to break or wear down, so you shouldn't need to buy another...

kle · April 5, 2009, 10:08 PM

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...0-SHOT&s=34241 -- hand, 10-shot. It's listed for the S&W 17-8, which is a blued 10-shot .22. The 617-2, 617-4, and 617-6 are all stainless 10-shot .22s and should all use the same hand as the 17-8. It's listed as S&W part# 227330000, and according to the S&W revolver parts list, it's listed for both the 17-8 and 617-2, and should also be listed for the 617-4 and 617-6.

ChrisR · April 6, 2009, 02:14 AM

Right, that makes sense....I guess I order one of those then. Its a bit confusing with all the various hands listed, oversize, floating etc. Thanks.

ChrisR · April 29, 2009, 01:48 PM

So I have essentially completed this modification. Apart from the hand the other part required is a different center pin. I had to mill down the hand tip width to get it to index correctly and slip past the ejector rachet. I also had to shave a thou of the barrel using careful precision tooling as the new cylinder/ejector length was ever so slightly longer than the original.

kle · April 29, 2009, 02:28 PM

sounds about right--I've heard it said (and I completely believe it) that nothing on a revolver is a "standard" size; everything is fitted. What works in one revolver may not necessarily work in another.

It's cool that you got it to work--can you interchange the parts to go from 6-shot to 10-shot? Do you feel any difference in cocking the hammer for single-action between the two capacities? Trigger pulls any different?

I'm curious, because all of my S&W .22 revolvers are 10-shot (a 17-8, a 617-4, and a 617-6), and all of them feel easier to cock (SA) and pull the trigger (DA) than my 6-shot S&W centerfire revolvers (10-6, 19-3, 686-1, and 625-6), but I don't have any one gun with swappable cylinders like that to really compare...

ChrisR · April 29, 2009, 11:58 PM

Yes, to go back and forth between 6 and 10 shots is now just a matter of switching the parts out for their counter 'parts'. Can't say I noticed a real difference in trigger pull SA/DA.

BarkSlayer · April 30, 2009, 12:06 PM

Chris...I have a 10 shot 617 and find the only real difference is that it takes nearly twice as long to clean!

April 5, 2009, 09:48 AM	#4
kle Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2007 Location: NoVA, USA Posts: 419	You'd need either to buy the appropriate 10-shot hand, or to shave-down a 6-shot hand to make it into a 10-shot hand, to get the cylinder to index right. The "hand" (or pawl, if we're talking Colts or Rugers) is the part that pushes on the ratchet (the teeth) in the extractor star to rotate the cylinder while the trigger/hammer is being worked. (6-shot on the left, 10-shot on the right) ~~Everything else is the same, I believe.~~ Hmm...maybe the angles of the hands are slightly different; I wonder if you could shave the hand to a different width to compensate, or if it even matters (the 10-shot hand is 0.043" in this picture, but it's old and worn (2 years and 13000 rounds, when I was new and stupid and didn't really take care of my guns) and was causing slow timing, so it probably needs to be about 0.045" to work properly). But aside from that, you shouldn't need any other parts. Last edited by kle; April 5, 2009 at 10:15 AM.

April 5, 2009, 11:09 AM	#6
abber Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2008 Location: PRK Posts: 735	I doubt a new hand would cost very much. See if Numrich sells them. They give the best prices usually. Always better to use the part made for the application, unless you use a good smith (or are a good smith). I have a 4 inch, 10 shot 617. It is a fantastic gun. __________________ I ain't got no safe queens. I shoots em all...

April 30, 2009, 12:06 PM	#16
BarkSlayer Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2008 Location: Northwest Ohio Posts: 265	Chris...I have a 10 shot 617 and find the only real difference is that it takes nearly twice as long to clean! __________________ Northwest Ohio USA

April 5, 2009, 01:24 AM	#2
Hommbs Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2005 Location: La Puente, California Posts: 102	S&W will convert it to a 10 shooter. I recall reading it costs around $150 or so to have them do it.

April 5, 2009, 05:51 AM	#3
ChrisR Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Posts: 23	Good to know it can be done. Having S&W do it is not an option though as I'm in New Zealand. I just need to get the parts. I have the cylinder assembly coming, I'm wondering what else I need.

April 5, 2009, 09:48 AM	#5
Casimer Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2007 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 1,918	You'll need a new 'hand' - i.e. the arm which extends through the frame to drive the cylinder rotation. Apparently the hand used for a 6-shot can be modified for the 10-shot, but S&W may be able to provide one designed specifically for the 10-shot. * kle beat me to it :P

April 5, 2009, 05:44 PM	#7
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	Fair warning. Revolver cylinders DO NOT just "drop in". They have to be extensively fitted, adjusted, and gaged. This is NO JOB for anyone but a true professional pistolsmith who's well trained on cylinder work if you want a properly functioning and accurate revolver. Fitting a new cylinder starts out with fitting an ejector to the cylinder, then fitting that assembly to the cylinder yoke and then to the frame. Among other adjustments and checks are: Cylinder end shake. Head space. Timing (on converting to a 10 shot, this means new action parts, and adjusting for proper timing on all 10. Barrel/chamber alignment on all 10 chambers.

April 5, 2009, 06:13 PM	#8
ChrisR Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Posts: 23	Thanks for all the great answers. I'm not a smith though I do have some skills in that area and I know some smiths so I should be ok. I will try to get the replacement arm though having said that the amount of paperwork just to get the cylinder out of the States was bad enough. I'm not looking forward to having to do that again though hopefully this part is not something the US state department is likely to worry about.

April 5, 2009, 07:09 PM	#9
ChrisR Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Posts: 23	I expect this is the part required. I'll order the pin and spring as well. Any other bits I may need? http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/Sch...px?schemid=618 30 210650000 940-210-650 Hand, Oversize Fits $15.14

April 5, 2009, 10:08 PM	#11
kle Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2007 Location: NoVA, USA Posts: 419	http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...0-SHOT&s=34241 -- hand, 10-shot. It's listed for the S&W 17-8, which is a blued 10-shot .22. The 617-2, 617-4, and 617-6 are all stainless 10-shot .22s and should all use the same hand as the 17-8. It's listed as S&W part# 227330000, and according to the S&W revolver parts list, it's listed for both the 17-8 and 617-2, and should also be listed for the 617-4 and 617-6.

April 6, 2009, 02:14 AM	#12
ChrisR Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Posts: 23	Right, that makes sense....I guess I order one of those then. Its a bit confusing with all the various hands listed, oversize, floating etc. Thanks.

April 29, 2009, 01:48 PM	#13
ChrisR Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Posts: 23	So I have essentially completed this modification. Apart from the hand the other part required is a different center pin. I had to mill down the hand tip width to get it to index correctly and slip past the ejector rachet. I also had to shave a thou of the barrel using careful precision tooling as the new cylinder/ejector length was ever so slightly longer than the original.

April 29, 2009, 02:28 PM	#14
kle Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2007 Location: NoVA, USA Posts: 419	sounds about right--I've heard it said (and I completely believe it) that nothing on a revolver is a "standard" size; everything is fitted. What works in one revolver may not necessarily work in another. It's cool that you got it to work--can you interchange the parts to go from 6-shot to 10-shot? Do you feel any difference in cocking the hammer for single-action between the two capacities? Trigger pulls any different? I'm curious, because all of my S&W .22 revolvers are 10-shot (a 17-8, a 617-4, and a 617-6), and all of them feel easier to cock (SA) and pull the trigger (DA) than my 6-shot S&W centerfire revolvers (10-6, 19-3, 686-1, and 625-6), but I don't have any one gun with swappable cylinders like that to really compare...

April 29, 2009, 11:58 PM	#15
ChrisR Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Posts: 23	Yes, to go back and forth between 6 and 10 shots is now just a matter of switching the parts out for their counter 'parts'. Can't say I noticed a real difference in trigger pull SA/DA.