Wrongly labeled .50 in at cabelas

cloud8a · May 29, 2009, 02:39 PM

I bought a box of what said were .50 cal balls for my hawken. they seem smaller. I could drop them down my barrrel and they would roll down to the bottom without a patch. Is this right? they looked more like .45's

dmickey · May 29, 2009, 02:46 PM

Yes. That would be normal. The ball diameter should be .490.

Pahoo · May 29, 2009, 04:07 PM

As stated, this is normal. Mic them and slip a patch under that ball and see what you get. I really think you are okay !!!

Be Safe !!!

cloud8a · May 29, 2009, 04:39 PM

next question where can I find correct powder load info. I am using American Pioneer FFFG in a .50 cal 28 inch barrel in a CVA Hawken Frontier.

mykeal · May 29, 2009, 06:34 PM

You find correct load info at the firing range. Start with 50 grains measured by volume. Shoot a group of 3 rounds at 50 yards from a rest swabbing between shots with one wet then one dry patch. DO NOT adjust the sights. DO note the group size. Add 5 grains (to 55 grains by volume) and repeat the shots. Continue until you reach 90 grains by volume. Your 'correct' load will be the smallest group of 3 shots.

Pahoo · May 29, 2009, 07:47 PM

The best advice to give on loading, is to read the manual. CVA will provide you with one. Now, assuming your rifle is sound, the general rule of thumb, is on a .50Cal. the min load is 50 and the max load is 2 X 50, or 100. on a .45, general rule of thumb is 45min and 2 x 45 or 90. On cap and ball revolvers, it's different.
mykeal has replied with great advice. While we are at it, start out with a .015 patch and then experiment with those as well. Again, mykeal is telling you to put in some range-time and have some fun. Personally I think your choice of FFFG is just fine, although there are some that will disagree.

Be Safe !!!!

olyinaz · May 29, 2009, 08:02 PM

I hope you have better luck with American Pioneer powder than some of us have had. Frankly, I suggest either black powder or Pyrodex for better consistency.

Regards,
Oly

cloud8a · May 29, 2009, 10:21 PM

I already had Pioneer on hand from awhile ago. As far as sound well I spent three days cleaning a barrel someone fouled up bad. It is in between minor and major pitting so I just do not want the thing to explode.

It is my first time firing BP weapon so im nervous.

Hawg · May 30, 2009, 03:52 AM

It's not going to explode. Shoot the thing with a variety of charges and try different patch thicknesses. It takes some doing to work up a patched ball load. I don't know what the rate of twist on those barrels are, probably 1:48 but if it's faster you'll never get it to shoot round balls decently.

mykeal · May 30, 2009, 06:21 AM

Well, if you don't mind, a slight disagreement. Depending on how much faster (say 1:36, or even up to 1:20, perhaps) you can actually do fairly well with a round ball using lighter loads. It becomes a shorter range gun with such loads, but quite good accuracy can be achieved. Obviously one would rather have the slow twist for a round ball, but if that's not an option there's no reason to eschew them completely. I'd have no problem sighting in a 28" 1:36 barrel for whitetail at 50 yards with 70 grains, or probably even better, 60 grains. It's worth trying.

MacGille · May 30, 2009, 07:36 AM

you might have better results with ffg black. fffg is for pistols and burns faster.

Noz · May 30, 2009, 09:33 AM

mykeal, My experience was that the faster twists do not lend themselves to HUNTING loads with a patched ball. I have a CVA .50(1 in 48") that I tried every combination known to man because I wanted to shoot a patched ball. My best group at 35 yards was about 12". I bought a box of the 285 gr Maxi Hunters and my first attempt was a clover leaf. All charges I tried produced the same results up to and including 110 grs of FFg. That was more punishment than I desired so I settled on a hunting load of 90 grs.

arcticap · May 30, 2009, 03:34 PM

Considering that the barrel is pitted, APP produces less fouling that will accumulate and get trapped in the small pits and should be easier to clean.
Have fun shooting it cloud8a.

simonkenton · May 30, 2009, 03:55 PM

I have a TC Hawken with the 1:48 twist.
Shooting 80 grains of black powder and the patched round ball, I get 4 inch groups at 100 yards.
I have killed 5 deer, and 3 hogs with this rifle.
Great hunting rifle.

mykeal · May 30, 2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

I tried every combination known to man

Guess I can't argue with that. My species will remain unrevealed.

cloud8a · May 30, 2009, 08:36 PM

well it fired. I did not though make sure the barrel was dry and put a little too much super lube in it. wound up having to pull the ball out. The range owner told me everything I did wrong and I learned a-lot of new things. I decided after pulling the ball out and pulling the gun apart not to continue. I am starting over the a little more wiser and will try again latter in the week. The two times it did fire it was awsome. That plume of smoke and custom loading your own weapon seems so much more fun that shooting AK's like the other guys were doing.

darkgael · May 31, 2009, 05:06 AM

Quote:

so much more fun than shooting AK's like the other guys were doing.

Ain't that the truth. And you can hit something other than the berm.
Pete

aussiemaletuber · June 8, 2009, 06:48 AM

Goodday cloud8a and all
I have different size balls, patches, and one size of conical bullets for our .50 Hawken. I found the side-lock manual from CVA online very helpfull in working out boundaries and approaches http://www.cva.com/pdfs/Side.pdf (to muzzleloaders).

Cheers. David.

robhof · June 8, 2009, 01:24 PM

Welcome to the Hawkins world. I got a 54 kit a few years back and have since added a 50 with a Green Mtn barrel for hunting at longer ranges and a flinter that I built from parts for fun. They all are a hoot to fire and are cheaper than 22's with a lot more bang for the buck. Check your local Wally World the day after B/p season in your area for deeep discounts on powder and caps. I usually load up then.

May 29, 2009, 02:39 PM	#1
cloud8a Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 399	Wrongly labeled .50 in at cabelas I bought a box of what said were .50 cal balls for my hawken. they seem smaller. I could drop them down my barrrel and they would roll down to the bottom without a patch. Is this right? they looked more like .45's

May 30, 2009, 07:36 AM	#11
MacGille Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2006 Location: Planet Earth Posts: 976	you might have better results with ffg black. fffg is for pistols and burns faster. __________________ If ye love wealth better than Liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animated contest of Freedom, go from us in Peace. We ask not your counsel or Arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. --Samuel Adams--<*ixoye><

May 30, 2009, 03:34 PM	#13
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Considering that the barrel is pitted, APP produces less fouling that will accumulate and get trapped in the small pits and should be easier to clean. Have fun shooting it cloud8a. Last edited by arcticap; May 30, 2009 at 09:59 PM.

June 8, 2009, 01:24 PM	#19
robhof Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2007 Posts: 712	robhof Welcome to the Hawkins world. I got a 54 kit a few years back and have since added a 50 with a Green Mtn barrel for hunting at longer ranges and a flinter that I built from parts for fun. They all are a hoot to fire and are cheaper than 22's with a lot more bang for the buck. Check your local Wally World the day after B/p season in your area for deeep discounts on powder and caps. I usually load up then.

May 29, 2009, 02:46 PM	#2
dmickey Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2006 Posts: 124	Yes. That would be normal. The ball diameter should be .490.

May 29, 2009, 04:07 PM	#3
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	As stated, this is normal. Mic them and slip a patch under that ball and see what you get. I really think you are okay !!! Be Safe !!!

May 29, 2009, 04:39 PM	#4
cloud8a Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 399	next question where can I find correct powder load info. I am using American Pioneer FFFG in a .50 cal 28 inch barrel in a CVA Hawken Frontier.

May 29, 2009, 06:34 PM	#5
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	You find correct load info at the firing range. Start with 50 grains measured by volume. Shoot a group of 3 rounds at 50 yards from a rest swabbing between shots with one wet then one dry patch. DO NOT adjust the sights. DO note the group size. Add 5 grains (to 55 grains by volume) and repeat the shots. Continue until you reach 90 grains by volume. Your 'correct' load will be the smallest group of 3 shots.

May 29, 2009, 07:47 PM	#6
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	The best advice to give on loading, is to read the manual. CVA will provide you with one. Now, assuming your rifle is sound, the general rule of thumb, is on a .50Cal. the min load is 50 and the max load is 2 X 50, or 100. on a .45, general rule of thumb is 45min and 2 x 45 or 90. On cap and ball revolvers, it's different. mykeal has replied with great advice. While we are at it, start out with a .015 patch and then experiment with those as well. Again, mykeal is telling you to put in some range-time and have some fun. Personally I think your choice of FFFG is just fine, although there are some that will disagree. Be Safe !!!!

May 29, 2009, 08:02 PM	#7
olyinaz Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 877	I hope you have better luck with American Pioneer powder than some of us have had. Frankly, I suggest either black powder or Pyrodex for better consistency. Regards, Oly

May 29, 2009, 10:21 PM	#8
cloud8a Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 399	I already had Pioneer on hand from awhile ago. As far as sound well I spent three days cleaning a barrel someone fouled up bad. It is in between minor and major pitting so I just do not want the thing to explode. It is my first time firing BP weapon so im nervous.

May 30, 2009, 03:52 AM	#9
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	It's not going to explode. Shoot the thing with a variety of charges and try different patch thicknesses. It takes some doing to work up a patched ball load. I don't know what the rate of twist on those barrels are, probably 1:48 but if it's faster you'll never get it to shoot round balls decently.

May 30, 2009, 06:21 AM	#10
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Well, if you don't mind, a slight disagreement. Depending on how much faster (say 1:36, or even up to 1:20, perhaps) you can actually do fairly well with a round ball using lighter loads. It becomes a shorter range gun with such loads, but quite good accuracy can be achieved. Obviously one would rather have the slow twist for a round ball, but if that's not an option there's no reason to eschew them completely. I'd have no problem sighting in a 28" 1:36 barrel for whitetail at 50 yards with 70 grains, or probably even better, 60 grains. It's worth trying.

May 30, 2009, 09:33 AM	#12
Noz Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 643	mykeal, My experience was that the faster twists do not lend themselves to HUNTING loads with a patched ball. I have a CVA .50(1 in 48") that I tried every combination known to man because I wanted to shoot a patched ball. My best group at 35 yards was about 12". I bought a box of the 285 gr Maxi Hunters and my first attempt was a clover leaf. All charges I tried produced the same results up to and including 110 grs of FFg. That was more punishment than I desired so I settled on a hunting load of 90 grs.

May 30, 2009, 03:55 PM	#14
simonkenton Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 891	I have a TC Hawken with the 1:48 twist. Shooting 80 grains of black powder and the patched round ball, I get 4 inch groups at 100 yards. I have killed 5 deer, and 3 hogs with this rifle. Great hunting rifle.

May 30, 2009, 08:36 PM	#16
cloud8a Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 399	well it fired. I did not though make sure the barrel was dry and put a little too much super lube in it. wound up having to pull the ball out. The range owner told me everything I did wrong and I learned a-lot of new things. I decided after pulling the ball out and pulling the gun apart not to continue. I am starting over the a little more wiser and will try again latter in the week. The two times it did fire it was awsome. That plume of smoke and custom loading your own weapon seems so much more fun that shooting AK's like the other guys were doing.

June 8, 2009, 06:48 AM	#18
aussiemaletuber Junior Member Join Date: June 8, 2009 Location: Canberra ACT Posts: 10	Goodday cloud8a and all I have different size balls, patches, and one size of conical bullets for our .50 Hawken. I found the side-lock manual from CVA online very helpfull in working out boundaries and approaches http://www.cva.com/pdfs/Side.pdf (to muzzleloaders). Cheers. David.