Pricing on Ammo?

[AK103K]

Back when surplus was cheap, and actually, ammo in general, with things like Norinco/China Sports, etc, it was cheaper to buy them, than it was just to buy the components, but that time is long, long gone. I still buy some things by the case, but reloading is still the cheapest option when it comes to volume.

As far as the equipment, like anything else, you can spend a little, or spend a lot. Most of it lasts forever, so cost pretty much works its way down to nothing before to long. Over the years, Ive picked up odds and ends at yard sales, flea markets, off friends and family, etc, for dirt cheap, and sometimes for nothing at all. If you keep your eyes open, there are still plenty of deals out there. EBay is also a good place for some good deals.

I first started loading on my parents coffee table back in high school with a "Lee Loader". After I got married, I loaded for a number of years on my own coffee table in a couple of different apartments, with a RCBS Rock Chucker my wife gave me for Christmas one year, and a Lee 1000 Progressive. I still have the Rock Chucker, and loaded up about 300 rounds of 9mm with it last night. It paid for itself years ago.

If you mount things on a piece of 2x6, and have a couple of big "C" clamps, you can load pretty much anywhere if you want.

[Lee6113]

If you mount things on a piece of 2x6, and have a couple of big "C" clamps, you can load pretty much anywhere if you want.

This is what I'm thinking for us as space for us is limited.

I don't see ammo getting cheaper, so I think reloading as an option sounds better and better the more I think of it. I heard Seattle is trying to impose a $.05 tax per round but I heard that from another customer in line so I don't know the validity of the statement. That would be ridiculous if it were true.

[skizzums]

reloading takes almost no space if you don't want it to. i load on a very portable table, less than 24 inches on each side, and clamp it to whatever table i feel like working on. i do have a large storage cabinet in my basement that i store all my ammo/bullets/powders/dies etc. but i really don't need it to be half the size it is, and if i wasnt doing a dozen calibers, i wouldnt need it at all. as for hundred of dollars of equipment.....as i said in my earlier post, everything i needed cost less than 200$. but reloading isnt for everyone, i only reccomend it to people that will shoot at least 3000 rounds a year, if your in it to save any money anyways. i would also reccomed it to people that want to shoot lots of premium ammo, if your into precision rifle shooting, it's almost mandatory to reload if your pulling less than a 100k a year, IMO

[Lee6113]

I want to shoot between 300-500 rounds a month if possible, so that's definitely within your suggested range. Even if it's just in 9mm.

300*12= 3600 shots per year and at $0.20/ round that's at least $720, and that's not even what my local stores are charging. More like $0.24 at least after tax. And I figure the online pricing is gonna be a little higher for actual brass (I don't know if I want to shoot a lot of steel cases ammo) and I'm sure there's a shipping charge on top of that.

So if I can reload, startup costs being maybe $200, plus initial stocking of components, and if I can shoot under $0.15 per shot, than that saves me about $180 in a year. Sounds like a break even under those circumstances.

In terms of time spent at the bench, I figure it'll be enjoyable provided I get the right press and take the proper time to learn it. Again I'll have my wife learning with me so it'll be a fun hobby we both can pick up. Sounds like I've pretty much talked myself into it, eh? Looks like it.

[WVMountaineer]

If you intend to shoot anymore than just a clip or two a year, save your money on bargin priced ammo, put it into a reloading setup and components, and save money.

Say you get 1000 rounds for $230. $230 will buy you a pound of powder, (enough to load 1200 or so 9mm bullets), a brick of small pistol primers, a thousand coated lead bullets, and a Lee Classic Turret set. Spring an extra $55 for dies and a 1000 pieces of once fired brass and, you are good to go for a thousand rounds. The next thousand will cost you $90. That's .09 per round. 2.5 times cheaper than cheapo bulk ammo. It's a no brainer. God Bless

[kilimanjaro]

Brass cases are 'green', since they can be reloaded many times before recycling. Steel ammo goes straight to recycling, provided it gets picked up off the ground. It's not green.

Whether you decide to reload or not, do pick up the cases. Save the brass and scrap the steel with your other household metal waste.

Second the recommendations for the Lee Classic press, I use a Dillon progressive, but got three Lee presses for little money and set them up for two rifle calibers and 38 Special. You'll put out 500 rounds in about three hours total time, for about seventy bucks.

[Prof Young]

Today I loaded 50 rounds of 45 colt for my "cowboy" gun. Off the shelf they are 80 cents to a dollar per shot. Re loading my own they are about 30 cents. At the very least I saved $25 today alone. I've loaded thousands of rounds and my equipment has been paid for over and over and over. You do save money reloading. If you shoot a lot you pay for your equipment quickly. The argument that you don't save money because you shoot more is a nonsequitor. On a shot per shot basis you save a bundle. I can load 9mm for 8.5 cents a shot. Beats the snot out of 27 cents.

As for the suggestions to use cheaper steel case ammo . . . travel cautiously. My first foray into the steel ammo world lead to a bolt that took a hammer to open as the steel bullet had expanded so much as to jam the works tight. On the other hand steel is all I shoot out of my mosin nagant.

Live well, be safe.
Prof Young

[Boncrayon]

I look at availability first, and the best price after that...case in point is the .22LR. When I find a brick and it's reasonable, and my hobby budget is complementary, I buy since I shoot various rounds in pistol and long guns regularly. Another case is 45-70 that I cannot find at Academy any more...in this case, prices vary and I know the prices of my other vendors so I am unlikely to purchase a foolish price. Go for the good buy on brass cased ammo, and determine if it is to be for range practice firing or self-defense. Indoor ranges do not like the cheap non-brass casings (aluminum and steel). Most carry reasonably priced brass rounds if you run low at the range. Other markets like TulAmmo are imports, but I would rather have American-made, and prefer full jacket to prevent lead build up in my rifling's. Hording is not my intent...but readied supply for my practice at the range, and I empty my self defense rounds be for I punch holes in the bull's eye!

[leadcounsel]

Say you get 1000 rounds for $230. $230 will buy you a pound of powder, (enough to load 1200 or so 9mm bullets), a brick of small pistol primers, a thousand coated lead bullets, and a Lee Classic Turret set. Spring an extra $55 for dies and a 1000 pieces of once fired brass and, you are good to go for a thousand rounds. The next thousand will cost you $90. That's .09 per round. 2.5 times cheaper than cheapo bulk ammo. It's a no brainer. God Bless

With this mentality, why would you bother wasting money on purchasing an airline ticket when you can just walk across country for free.

TIME IS MONEY FOLKS. If the analysis is what is cheaper, the answer is that you must factor in the value of your time. If it's a hobby, then that's a different analysis.

I grant you it may be more fun, educational, interesting, etc... but this constant argument that it's cheaper is not always true. To say that it is cheaper is not universal, just as walking across country probably isn't cheaper than flying.

I want to be clear, I don't really care or have a dog in the fight. But as an economist of sort, it bugs me when people don't understand simple economic principles like supply and demand, economic incentives, and things like this opportunity costs...

[leadcounsel]

I wrote post 23 when I was tired and my math was off significantly. Here I'm going to clarify.

I'm speaking as an individual with multiple college level courses in economics which comprised a portion of my honors degree Bachelor of Arts, a Juris Doctor, a private entrepreneur, while I'm carrying nearly a 4.0 grade point average and 1/2 through my Masters of Business Administration degree, with "A's" in Accounting and Economics courses at graduate level:

If it's a hobby, then the cost is mostly irrelevant if you enjoy it and can afford it. All hobbies are costly - skiing, camping, skydiving, etc. My snowboarding hobby is expensive and offers zero return. It's not for economics, it's fun.

If this is to SAVE MONEY, you must factor in the value of:

-Cost of time - economic term is "opportunity costs." This is not just as you sit at the press. Factor in time setup, building bench, researching loads, ordering components online, measuring, weighting, testing loads, etc.
-Cost of floor space - your presumably rent or pay mortgage on square footage of your home. That is a factor X/sq. ft.
-Cost of startup equipment, which you can depreciate or amortize out over X years.

Reloaders conveniently forget the hundreds of dollars spent on all the equipment, the many square feet of floor space (each square foot in your home represents somewhere around $XXX/ft that you pay rent or mortgage on - so if reloading requires you to upscale the size of your home to accommodate reloading, for increased costs, you must factor that in), storage space, the cash outlay for all components, the constant hunt for brass, lead, primers, and powder, the hazards of having that stuff around... (a recent article in one of these reloading forums about a guy who had a massive amount of gunpowder and it ignited and blew up his house) and the hours of sitting in front of what is effectively a little press in your home - like a little Chinese sweat shop...

And just peruse the reloader section. I see frequent posts about serious mistakes that reloaders make resulting in blowing up their guns or causing injuries. And by the way, nobody will shoot or buy your reloaded ammo - that's how much reloaded ammo is trusted. So you could make 100,000 reloads that are worthless to anyone but you. Conversely, in a pinch you could recoup your investment in a purchase of 100,000 factory rounds if you needed to.

Let's reasonably assume you can earn $30 an hour at your profession or a side-job, moonlighting, etc. Let's also assume that the outlay for a good reloading setup, dies, accessories, workbench, etc. is $1000. (A Dillon Square Deal is $400, and advertises 300-500 rounds per hour, but does not factor in the "down time" for measuring, weighing, testing, pulling mistakes, shopping for components, setup, tear down, which cut deep into that hourly rate).

Let's say you can make a sustainable average 100 rounds an hour for 10 cents per 9mm round (accounts for bathroom and food breaks, setup, measuring, weighing, replenishing raw materials, etc.). It would take you 1000 hours + $10,000 in materials to make 100,000 rounds (100 rds/hr x 1000 hours = 100,000 rounds). 1,000 hours of foregone work @ $30/hr is $30,000 + $10,000 in raw materials + $1000 for the setup. Total economic cost of this 100,000 rounds is $41,000. The hand loaded ammo also has no economic value to anyone but you, so nearly zero resale value (there is a thread on one of these reloading sites about a reloader that died and the family could barely give away piles of his ammo due to the dangers and hassles of pulling the bullets or shooting it). And this doesn't factor the learning curve, floor storage space/cost, inconvenience, and risks of rolling your own.

*Note you lose money with each bullet using this very reasonable example. Even if you increased production and cut the time to 300 rounds per hour, that brings the labor to $10,000 + $10,000 materials + $1,000 for the setup = $21,000 for 100,000 rounds (which have no resale value).

Conversely, let's say you buy 100,000 factory rounds at 20 cents per round, for $20,000 with the click of a button. http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/Feder...-p/cal9115.htm Right here is 115 grain Federal 9x19 for $19 cents per round. It took me 10 seconds to find it. You could probably get a better price if you bought a pallet of it.
And you work those 1000 hours at a profession or side-job, earning $30,000. Total cost is $30,000 earned minus $20,000 spent on ammo, so you come out AHEAD $10,000 cash PLUS the factory ammo will retain 100% of it's value and probably increase over time.

The analysis may be different for exotic or particularly expensive ammo, or ammo that needs special tweaking, or the opportunity costs of a person's earning potential...
In my mind, it's clear that for most people, buying factory is the way to go unless you just absolutely love reloading as a hobby or are otherwise on a fixed income or unemployed - which is a different analysis.

From a purist economic standpoint, if you're gainfully employed and could otherwise be working, you may never reach an economic "break even" point. If fact, you could actually lose money for each bullet you make versus just buying a pallet of ammo and working at your job instead.

[AK103K]

After all that, I still somehow seem to be able to shoot more reloading, than I do if I dont. Except for that period of time, when surplus and Chinese import ammo was cheaper to buy than the components.

No matter how I try to stretch my paychecks out, I cant afford to by the 3-500 rounds I shoot each week, buying factory ammo, even if I were buying by the case.

[Limnophile]

Prior to Newtown I was paying $10.50/50 (21¢/round) for remanufactured (mixed brass, rounds loose in the box) 115-gr 9 Luger FMJ. I haven't seen prices drop back to that level yet, so I think you did well.

[leadcounsel]

Prior to Newtown I was paying $10.50/50 (21¢/round) for remanufactured (mixed brass, rounds loose in the box) 115-gr 9 Luger FMJ. I haven't seen prices drop back to that level yet, so I think you did well.

You're not looking. http://www.ammunitiondepot.com/Feder...-p/cal9115.htm

19 cents per round, 115 grain FMJ, in stock.

I just bought 1500 rounds of 7.62x54R for .25cents/round. It took me 1 minute. (Apparently we're not factoring in "labor" to earn the money.)

[Lee6113]

How much time would you say it takes to "learn" hand loading? 500rounds? More? And what kind of time would it take?

And once proficient how many hours to pump out 500 rounds? Assuming a single stage press.

I'm curious to see my "time investment" and calculate the cost with it.

[skizzums]

most of us single stage users will do bulk brass prep. thats cleaning, decapping, resizing and then toss in a bucket of "ready to be loaded brass". you can expect to easily knock out a thousand rounds of once fired brass to "ready to load" brass in about 4-5 hours. after that, you can sit down and load whenever you feel the hankering and crank out about 200 rounds in a little more than an hours time. your simply just priming, powdering and seating a bullet, very quick and stress free. for example, sometimes ill be invited to go shoot on a sunday morn at noon. ill jus wake up an hour early and load my ammo before i leave in an hours time, no biggie, not time consuming. not nearly as time consuming as people want to make you believe.

[bungiex88]

Yeah commimart has the perfecta for around 10. I buy the 308 and 357 all the time for plinking rounds and you still get the brass casings for reloading it works and shoots good for price

[Maverick36]

Just picked up a case at targetsportsusa.com. Free shipping

[KEYBEAR]

The cost savings in reloading is only part of it for a lot of us . Yes it is cheaper but you will shoot more . So it will end up costing as much or more . If time is that important reloading is not for you .

Reloading is a time you spend doing what you like to do . I do it on rainy days and in the winter it is the time to catch up with the shooting of last spring . I started reloading in about 1968 and now it is as much enjoyment as shooting . (ALL MOST) But if your time is limited it is not anything you can rush . As for speed I can load most handgun ammo at around 300/400 per hour with a progressive press . I no longer use the progressive much but use a single stage most .

I shoot mostly 44 Mag and shoot 400 to 500 rounds a week in good weather .
My range is a short walk from the back door .