Firing Both Barrels Simultaneously?

[WmMunny]

I'm reading a novel in which a character deliberately fires both barrels of a two-trigger double barrel shotgun (brand/configuration not described) simultaneously

I know it's just a fictional novel-- but is it that possible?

[Jim Watson]

Sure, you will be sorry, but it is mechanically possible.
Sorry because of the doubled recoil, and sorry where the second load might end up, you probably didn't pull both triggers precisely at the same instant.

[NHSHOOTER]

It is possible and I have been there done that but just once and i was shooting at a very high sand bank with low base loads..

[NHSHOOTER]

duplicate message

[44 AMP]

Entirely possible with any double barrel double trigger gun (if both hammers are cocked).

BAD IDEA
Dramatic, but STUPID.
(which is why they do it so often in movies and other fiction)

Double the recoil (and even if not exactly firing in the same microsecond) its close enough together to be felt as one double strength jolt.

If you are foolish enough to do it from the hip, odds are real high you'll get your fingers bashed.

Tactically speaking, if one shot doesn't do it, firing your only other shot at the same instant, probably won't, either, and worse, then you're "out" until you reload.

[Pahoo]

Dramatic, but STUPID.

True and when I was dumber than a day-old boot, I did this but only a couple of times. My first double was a Savage-311, in 12ga. It kicked and cannot understand, how they did this, in the movies ........

But now that I recall, we did much dumber things than this. Been shot four times but I still have all my fingers !!!!

Be Safe !!!!

[HiBC]

It also puts extreme stresses on the stock in the wrist area. The gunmaker tries to make them slim and light. Its a brutal thing to do to a shotgun.

Would you do extreme "G" force Aerobatic maneuvers with a Piper Cub or Luscombe ?

[mehavey]

Yes, my Valmet LION 12g O/U fired both barrels simultaneously.

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So I took it to my gunsmith and got it fixed

[jmr40]

My first double was a Savage-311, in 12ga.

I started with grand dads 20 ga double. It was an old hammer gun. I never tried both barrels at the same time with it. The 1st shotgun I bought was a Savage/Stevens BSE. Same gun as the 311, but with a little better wood, a single trigger and ejectors instead of extractors. It fired the right barrel with the 1st pull, then the left barrel with the 2nd pull.


Every now and then the recoil from the 1st shot would cause the 2nd barrel to fire. I'm sure there was a fraction of a second between the 2 shots, but I couldn't detect it.

The 1st time it happened I had an Oh $%&@ moment. I didn't realize both barrels had gone off until I opened the breach. That recoil was brutal, and it was more likely to do it with more potent high brass loads which made it even worse.

I bought that gun new in 1974 and it was nothing but trouble. I kept it about 10 years and gladly sold it.

[The Happy kaboomer]

For kicks and giggles we did it our youth with a Stevens 311 12 ga.. Didn't hurt us or the gun.

[FrankenMauser]

It is possible with many SxS shotguns, but not all.
Some have inertia safeties that, when operating correctly, block the other firing mechanism under recoil.

Manufacturers are aware of the fact that people want light, crisp triggers; but also the fact that people don't care for both chambers firing at the same time.

The inertia safeties were a product of the days when guns were slim, light, and properly balanced, 10 ga was normal, 12 ga was for dove and pigeon sized game, 16 ga was for little birds, 20 ga was for sissies, and a common load was something like 1-3/8 oz of shot on top of a *minimum* of 90 gr of BP.

I have read many reports from the 1870s and 1880s, in which the writers claim to have managed 1-3/4 oz of shot and up to 140 gr of 3F in a 12 ga shell. (Probably brass - but it is almost never specified.)

...Which is why there is so much 'dead' space in modern shells, and cushioning in modern wads. All of our shotgun gauges were built for heavy payloads and large charges of black powder, except .410 bore. .410, as we know it today, was introduced as a smokeless shell. Its predecessors, the various .44 shot cartridges and the ~1901 ".410" were BP; but .44 shot was pretty much gone by 1930, and the early ".410" almost instantly disappears from advertisements, correspondence, and articles after the introduction of the .410 that we have today.
Which I find strange and fascinating. En masse, people adopted a longer, clunkier, more expensive 'garden gauge' (which was given the 2.5" length purely to look more powerful), and abandoned a whole family of compact, effective cartridges that were already in use.

[44 AMP]

Some have inertia safeties that, when operating correctly, block the other firing mechanism under recoil.

Hadn't heard of that not sure how it would work, can't see how it could work, if the gun has two triggers....


What I have heard of is single trigger guns where the second barrel firing mechanism gets cocked by the recoil of the first barrel. OR possibly the mechanism is already cocked, but needs the recoil of the first barrel firing to "switch" the trigger to the second barrel.

Not an ideal situation, in my opinion.

[ligonierbill]

My Dad did it unintentionally. He used to run beagles in his teens, but during the Depression, a shotgun was a problem. This day he had a borrowed 10 ga. double hammer gun. When the dogs got a rabbit going, he cocked both and waited. The rabbit appeared, and he fired. The owner of the gun neglected to mention that one sear was a little shaky. Yep, dropped both hammers. He picked himself up and never found the rabbit. Probably missed.

[stinkeypete]

It's not that big a deal. Two one ounce loads are still less than a max turkey load. If it was point blank and a velociraptor was about to eat you, why not?

I've done it with lighter 12 gauge loads. 2 20 gauge? easy. Two triggers.

[HiBC]

I understand SOME single trigger doubles have issues. My first gun was a Stevens Model 530 A -ST made in Chicopee Falls . I was in Middle School when my Brother sold it to me for the small money I had as he left for Vietnam.
He also left Ruark's "The Old Man and the Boy"

Later I bought a SKB model 100 SXS .

Both of these SXS shotguns had single triggers that used inertia/recoil to trip to the other barrel. The SKB was selective at the safety. The Stevens was non-selective, Modifoed barrel first,then full. Both were 20 gauge.

I never had any reliability issues with the triggers on either gun. They just worked.

For bird hunting, the stakes are not too high. I prefer the single trigger,.

If it was a dangerous game double rifle,I'd opt for double triggers.

Back to the OP: If you take the buttstock off of a fine old somewhat irreplaceable sidelock LC Smith lightweight bird gun...You will see delicate wood that gains some strength from being skillfully inletted to the steel and carefully layed out to grain structure. Olde School Craftsmanship.

Everything is enough,but its not an overengineered brick. You do you,but I'd never pull both barrels . Not on MY shotgun.

For myself,there is a state of mind that comes with a fine old double. Its a bit preservationist,

No Jackass moves,no hacksaws, no steel shot, and moderate loads.

But you do you.

[WmMunny]

Update: Got further into the novel-- it was a side by side.

What I didn't mention in the OP is that it was an apparent suicide...with the triggers pulled by his toes with socks on.

The book is one of the Bosch novels by Michael Connellly-- The Black Ice.

[44 AMP]

Fictional characters can, literally, do anything......

[L. Boscoe]

did it my youth-my best friend had a sealed tin of WW II 12 ga, this was in the early 50's, and we went to the dump and blasted rats until we ran out of
shells, must have been a hundred in the tin- we only did the two at a time once-mangled fingers taught the lesson about that.

[bladesmith 1]

Frank may have things a little mixed up. I have shot and studied SxSs for over 60 years and have never seen the term " inertia safeties " or any safety that blocks the other firing mechanism under recoil. During the Golden Age of shotgunning [ SxSs ] many European gun manufactures made their locks with two sears and both had to be actuated for the gun to fire. In other words, just a bump, or jar from the other barrel going off wouldn't be enough to fire the second barrel, both sears would have to be pushed up to release the tumbler allowing the the hammer to rotate and strike the firing pin. What they had in mind was more a safety issue with worn parts. The second sear was called " an intercepting sear " . American manufactures never made a side lock this way thinking they were unnecessary and too costly. Now, as a young shooter I fired both barrels at once with my first shotgun. I put my second finger on the back trigger thinking I could get a quicker shot off. I most certainly did.

[HiBC]

I never suggested it was an inertial safety.

My single trigger SKB was selective.The tang thumb safety would be moved left or right to select the first barrel. It had nothing to do with being a safety but the control of selecting the first barrel was integrated into the safety selector.

The Stevens was a non selective single trigger, The tang thumb safety had nothing to do with selecting the barrel. It always fired the right,or modified,barrel first. That would be followed by the left full choke barrel.

Both of these guns required recoil or simulated recoil to reset the single trigger to the next barrel. If the plan was to lower the hammers down on snap caps,the trigger could be pulled,snapping the first barrel. Next recoil could be simulated by (the way I did it) gently bumping the butt on a carpeted floor. NOT a hard surface floor,and just enough to reset. Its maybe 20% if the bump your shoulder might take in recoil or less, Go easy till you get a feel for it. To say it another way,about a 4 inch drop onto a PADDED surface should work. An original hard rubber or Tenite buttplate might be brittle. Go easy! A hard bump on the buttplate with the heel of the hand should do. Then a pull of the trigger should snap the second barrel.

Use snap caps. The old gun does not like the firing pins smacking steel rather than primers. And its best the hammer springs are not stored compressed.

[GE-Minigun]

Some Merkel shotguns have the ability to fire both at the same time, why I have no idea, but the option is there.

[44 AMP]

Double barrels and a single trigger cannot fire both barrels at the same time, UNLESS the gun is broken or just the "right parts" are worn/defective.

Double barrels with double triggers can be. SHOULDN'T BE DONE, but can be done.

In the old days, double barrel guns, both shotguns and rifles had two triggers, two hammers, sears, etc. The were, essentially two separate lockworks independent of each other, housed in one common receiver.

This was a major selling point for the "African stopper" class double rifles. Not so much for shotguns where a failure rarely resulted in the hunter being killed by an angry beast.

So, single trigger mechanisms eventually became the usual for "modern" double barrel shotguns.

Personally, I prefer two triggers when a gun has two barrels.

[FrankenMauser]

I'll have to dig through my locks and see if I still have an example (hopefully a pair) with inertia safety.
Most common on backaction locks, but I've seen it elsewhere.

[bladesmith 1]

What I tried to describe is a method to stop either barrel from accidentally from going off. The trigger has to be pulled for the gun to fire. And these guns have two triggers, two locks, two hammers, and two barrels, the way a SxS should be.

[darkgael]

Twice. I had it happen twice. The first was with a double trigger vintage 12 gauge. Pulling the front trigger first was ok. Pulling the rear trigger first resulted in a double.
The second was a 12 gauge Baikal SXS. Single selective trigger. I was walking through a patch of barberries when a bird popped up from, literally, under my feet. Scared the heck out of me. Gun came up. Pulled the front trigger. Kablooey. Both barrels.