First Gun Help?

[joshgoshR]

G22 may be your best bet

[steelbird]

Hello again, dafl -
If you can't find a CZ75, you might want to check out the CZ P07 or P09. My opinion, of course, but the P07's ergonomics felt somewhat similar to the 75 ( had the opportunity to try both at the Lake Mary Gander Mountain during one of their firearm expos ). Shot them both very nicely. The difference is that the P07, being a polymer gun, weighs less. I wound up getting the P07 - and I shoot that better than any other 9 that I've tried. There are others on TFL who will also wholeheartedly endorse the P07. Good luck on your search!

[Cosmodragoon]

... Glock, which I wasn't really a fan of, just didn't feel like I had a good hold on the gun.

You're not alone. I know a lot of people who love their Glocks but some of us just hate the way they point or feel in hand. I think it's the grip angle. I tried and tried but just could never warm up to it.

... it's basically coming down to the M&P vs cz75 (which might be out of my price range, unless i can find a good deal) 2022, or FNX...

I never tried the FNX in 9mm but see my earlier praise of the FNX-45. The M&P is decent but never got me excited. Now that you've brought up the CZ 75, that's another gem. There are several different models with all kinds of features but in general: amazing. It's definitely worth exploring what CZ has to offer.

BTW, here's a valuable note on gun purchases: A couple hundred bucks difference is nothing to worry about! Yeah, it seems like a lot up front but don't think about it that way. A quality firearm is likely to outlast you with proper care. Think of all the times you'll take it out to the range in your lifetime. Think of all the times you'll trust it with your life. It'll eventually be pennies a day. Plus, it pales in comparison to what you'll spend on ammo over that same time. So figure out what you really want and get it. If it means saving up and maybe going without a few other amenities in life for a few weeks or even months, so be it.

[Cheapshooter]

Don't be in a big hurry. Get more experience before you actually buy. First off, 40 S&W over 9MM, and 14 rounds over six, seven, or eight are more important to internet discussions, and gun magazine articles than actual civilian SD.
Comfortable, and concealable in a gun you shoot well is much more important.
There are plenty of good quality 9MM defense ammo offerings that are quite capable for defensive shooting.
Accuracy by volume is not an acceptable practice in civilian CCW.
I am not a 40 S&W hater by any means. I carry a Springfield Arms XD40 Sub Compact in clod weather when an attacker may be wearing heavy cloths. Other times it could be a Kahr Arms CM9 (6+1 9MM), Ruger LCR 5 shot 38 Special revolver, or a Charter Arms Bulldog 44 Special 5 Shot revolver, and always a Ruger LCP 380acp (6+1) in my pocket

[BigBL87]

As mentioned about the CZ, there are lots of different models to consider, virtually all are derived from the basic design of the CZ75. The P-07 and P-09 would probably be better carry options due to their decreased weight if that is a concern. You also have the P-01 which is even smaller but similar design. There is also the compact series of CZ75's which are still all metal but are more compact. So, when we say CZ75, really look at CZ pistols in general rather than just the CZ-75B (the grandaddy of them all). In fact, here's all the handguns they offer:

http://cz-usa.com/product-category/handguns/

[Cosmodragoon]

BigBL87 wrote:

As mentioned about the CZ, there are lots of different models to consider, virtually all are derived from the basic design of the CZ75. The P-07 and P-09 would probably be better carry options due to their decreased weight if that is a concern. You also have the P-01 which is even smaller but similar design. There is also the compact series of CZ75's which are still all metal but are more compact.

While this is easily a topic in itself, how do you feel the alloy-framed CZs stack up against the polymer for a lightweight option?

[DeadEyeJack]

Personally, I would go for the Glock.

With that said, I'm not one of those people who simply advocate Glocks because they are supposedly perfect. In fact, I've found that Glock pistols are just about anything but. The grips aren't exactly comfortable and both my Berettas and just about all of my revolvers shoot tighter groups than my G22. What Glock does make however, is what I feel to be one of the toughest and safest striker fired autoloading pistols on the market today.

When I first purchased my 22 I was very reluctant to trust it due to its complete lack of any manual safeties. It actually made me nervous enough that I refused to carry it if I was going to be anywhere near my young nieces and nephews. This went on for about a month until one day I was getting ready to clean the pistol and I set it on a shelf, roughly 6 feet high, while I grabbed my cleaning supplies. What I had forgotten was that a few days prior the shelf had collapsed and I had yet to secure it back to the wall. No sooner had I let go of the pistol did the shelf shift and the gun fell to the floor, landing muzzle up, and with enough force to chip a piece of material off the rear sight. As I said before, I didn't have much faith in the weapon at the time and, knowing it was loaded, thought I was done for the second I saw it heading for the ground. Needless to say, the weapon did not accidentally discharge, the internal safeties worked as intended, and I'm sitting here today with a lot more trust and respect for Glock engineering.

As a bit of a side note, I said earlier the grips on the Glock are nowhere near comfortable and I still stand by that however, they do work and are something you can easily get used to. Doesn't even make it onto my list of concerns when considering the level of safety inherent in a Glock pistol as well as it's near inability to malfunction in any way whatsoever.

I'd also like to mention that one of these pistol had been dropped 10,000 feet(I believe) from an airplane, retrieved, and fired so it's not like you ever really have to worry about damaging the thing either.

[Frankly]

DAFL, nothing conceals better than a subcompact. Best deal on the planet right now in a subcompact, in my humble opinion, is the M&P Shield. Superbly engineered and ruggedly built, yet priced below other subcompacts of certainly no better design or build quality. You can surf the Internet and find numerous threads where folks are singing its praises. You can get it in either 9mm or 40 S&W. I recommend the .40 version because the felt recoil is not significantly greater but the terminal ballistics potential clearly is. You give up a whopping one round in the mag. Nothing wrong with getting it in 9 either. But do check it out before making a final decision.

[bullet0114]

Originally Posted by DAFL

Please don't kill me about posting a thread that has probably killed the horse, beat it with a bat, went to its funeral, dug it up and left it on it's families font porch.

Hey everyone, I'm getting my CCW here in FL (no open carry )next weekend. When I go to the shop I want to have a couple guns in my head that I know are good guns so the owner doesn't try to pull a fast one and try to sell me a $250 gun for $400. I've also researched striker vs DA/SA and I don't think I'd mind the learning curve.

I'll answer your questions, "why don't you just go and shoot some?" The closest gun range that rents guns is 45 minutes away and I have a busy schedule so that's going to be after I get my CCW and actually when I go to buy the gun (I hope then it'll just click and the one that feels the best will stick out to me). I started out with a bunch of polymer guns (PPQ, 2022, FNX, XD, etc.) after some nit picking over clip size, weight, (too many)safeties, and other features, I've eliminated some.

What I'm left with, and what I need help with is figuring out the main differences between my remanding choices. I'm looking for a good build quality, good quality control, something that's solid and a great shooter out of the box, something with longevity, and most importantly, most reliable in a stressful situation, something that I can trust will go bang as I'm getting my armed security guard license.

Now, without shooting anything yet, I've pre-concluded that the .40 S&W would be a decent round to start with, it seems you get a good compromise (not too much of a sacrifice on ammo with a little more power, also seems like its more available down here) If you feel the need to tell me that I NEED to start on 9mm then feel free, please redirect yourself to the former sentence of me stating I don't mind a learning curve.

These are all full size, but I'm a big framed (still fat) guy so I don't THINK it will affect me much (6' 285 lbs.)

The finalists are:

M&P 40
I feel like this would be a great choice because of the aftermarket support and not to mention this guns is made by the same people that designed the .40 caliber and this gun was made around the round, not vice versa.

G22
The only reason I'm considering this gun is because almost EVERYONE is suggesting that its a gun to consider, idk if there is anything that really sticks out to me about this gun. Definitely doesn't look the most comfortable.

FNX
Here is the DA/SA! I feel like I would like the DA/SA system more so than the Striker, just because it would be more open, mentally settling because I could see what's going on. Not to mention is comes with three clips.

SR40
Nothing really sticks out to me about this gun, I just had no reason to take it off the list..


So what do you experts think?

Scrap the 40 cal ideal to snappy for first time shooters. I carry a 1911 desert eagle 4 inch 45cal I've shot Kimbers colts para ordinance all 1911 4 and 5 inch and this 1911 desert eagle has been the best one yet. I once read never shoot a large caliber man with a small caliber gun. 9mm guns are good for a pocket gun.

Originally Posted by Blindstitch

I bought an SD9ve for $330 and like the way it works. The only thing I don't like is the trigger. After adding an apex trigger kit it got way better. I didn't want to spend a lot of money so that's why I got it but it causes me to wonder if I should have got the M&P9 for the better options right from the start.

Originally Posted by Amegatek

My first carry gun was a Glock 19 (9mm). 11 years later, still in my carry rotation. My other carry gun is a Ruger SR1911LW CMD (.45 ACP). Both are great. Try a few out, maybe add some to your list just for comparison sake. Then make your decision. Hopefully, one will stick out for you.

Originally Posted by Joe_Pike

I'm a 9mm guy. Let's face it, handguns are pretty anemic when it comes to power. We carry them because they are convenient. So, I'll take capacity coupled with +p ammo every day if I think I want to carry a bigger firearm (I prefer pocket carry personally). The firearms you have listed should have 9mm counterparts (SR9, Glock 17, etc.). For me I would consider the Glock 19 with 15+1 capacity (or a G23 and get a 9mm barrel so you have choices) or something from Springield Armory's XD/XDM lineup as there are plenty of reliable choices in their catalog that are very comfortable in the hand and won't break the bank. Plus 9mm ammo is cheaper IF you stock up when there isn't panic buying going on.

[Oysterboy]

I know that 9mm ammo has gotten better so it wouldn't be a bad choice but the 40sw doesn't recoil much more than the 9mm. This is just from my own experience. I had a 9mm Sigma (sold it) and have my Sig P250c 40sw.

I shoot Win PDX1 124+P for 9mm and Hornady FTX 165 for 40sw. They are a pretty good match up but the FTX is only 5 FPS slower than the PDX1+P and the FTX hits harder by 110 fpe. The recoil was slighly more than the PDX1 yet the FTX is bigger and heavier.

Both the 9mm and the 40sw are high pressure rounds.

Since you have large hands I figured you have strong wrists and handle the 40sw pretty well. You've considered a revolver have you considered the P250? As a modular pistol you can tailor the pistol that suits you to a tee. Also it has less moving parts so that makes it pretty darn reliable.

My P250c hadn't failed me after thousands of rounds of various ammo.

[SARuger]

E; None of the above

I think the LC9s is hard to beat for a concealed carry firearm that has some decent firepower. Try one out before you buy anything. It is light and easy to conceal.

[jmhyer]

To those who are recommending smaller guns (Shield, LC9, etc.), those are great ones, but...
I realize the OP was talking about concealed carry for now, but he also mentioned getting a security guard license. I suspect he was thinking of a gun that would serve both purposes.

[BigBL87]

While this is easily a topic in itself, how do you feel the alloy-framed CZs stack up against the polymer for a lightweight option?

I personally do not have enough experience to comment with any certainty. In general, in guns that I've handled it seems that polymer is the best for reducing weight (no surprise), but alloy is a good middle ground between cutting weight and not increasing recoil too much.

That being said, the B6P that I have is not bad on recoil AT ALL. I can only imagine how minimal the recoil is on the B6 (steel framed version). I have thought about selling the B6P now that I have a dedicated carry gun and using what I get to buy a steel framed handgun, still haven't decided yet.

Personally, I would go for the Glock.

With that said, I'm not one of those people who simply advocate Glocks because they are supposedly perfect. In fact, I've found that Glock pistols are just about anything but. The grips aren't exactly comfortable and both my Berettas and just about all of my revolvers shoot tighter groups than my G22. What Glock does make however, is what I feel to be one of the toughest and safest striker fired autoloading pistols on the market today.

When I first purchased my 22 I was very reluctant to trust it due to its complete lack of any manual safeties. It actually made me nervous enough that I refused to carry it if I was going to be anywhere near my young nieces and nephews. This went on for about a month until one day I was getting ready to clean the pistol and I set it on a shelf, roughly 6 feet high, while I grabbed my cleaning supplies. What I had forgotten was that a few days prior the shelf had collapsed and I had yet to secure it back to the wall. No sooner had I let go of the pistol did the shelf shift and the gun fell to the floor, landing muzzle up, and with enough force to chip a piece of material off the rear sight. As I said before, I didn't have much faith in the weapon at the time and, knowing it was loaded, thought I was done for the second I saw it heading for the ground. Needless to say, the weapon did not accidentally discharge, the internal safeties worked as intended, and I'm sitting here today with a lot more trust and respect for Glock engineering.

As a bit of a side note, I said earlier the grips on the Glock are nowhere near comfortable and I still stand by that however, they do work and are something you can easily get used to. Doesn't even make it onto my list of concerns when considering the level of safety inherent in a Glock pistol as well as it's near inability to malfunction in any way whatsoever.

I'd also like to mention that one of these pistol had been dropped 10,000 feet(I believe) from an airplane, retrieved, and fired so it's not like you ever really have to worry about damaging the thing either.

Glocks aren't indestructible, but they are definitely among the more durable handguns out there. When it comes down to it, Glock is really a jack of all trades and a master of none, IMO. They are all around good guns, just not really excelling at one particular thing.

[DeadEyeJack]

"Glock is really a jack of all trades and a master of none, IMO. They are all around good guns, just not really excelling at one particular thing." - BigBL87

This is probably the closest thing to a perfect summation of the Glock pistol line I have ever heard.

And just wanting to clarify one thing. I was in no way attempting to insinuate that Glocks are some mystically indestructible handgun. I mean, almost half my rear sight chipped off after a 6 foot drop to a hardwood floor. They're simply very difficult to render inoperable.
DEJ

[davem]

DAFL: well if you have thought about a revolver.....I don't think they are a bad "first hand gun" Swing out the cylinder and load. That's pretty safe. You can practice at a range with a bench and place the spent shells aside for reloading-otherwise you'll have to go running around trying to find the cases tossed about from a semi-auto. On the reloading, with a revolver you can shoot light target loads and then use heavy loads for carry. The semi-auto needs a stable load because the load's force is needed to re-cycle the slide.
If you are going to keep the gun in a night stand you can keep the cylinder slightly ajar to make it plain the cylinder is loaded and snap it shut as you grab the gun. That may be better than wondering if a Semi auto has a live round in the chamber.
With a semi-auto the force of the recoil reloads the gun and you need to keep a stiff wrist so the gun can do its job. "Limp wristing" or just letting the gun flop back will lessen the force of the slide moving back and on rare occasion cause a stove top jam. Most folks figure they know how to shot a semi-auto but if you are in a gun fight and get hit, or panic, you might accidentally limp wrist- it happened to a friend of mine but fortunately for him his first shot did the trick.
We all want to report being attacked and firing in self defense. The only trouble is legal hassles for the rest of your life. A revolver doesn't leave any spent cases lying around. Not the way you should do it but a thought.
With a revolver you can get grips in all sorts of sizes and you may be able to hold and shoot the revolver better than a semi-auto.
So.....what's my favorite? Actually a 1911 and 45 ACP. It just fits my hand well and the trigger is great. But a revolver is a close second, probably a 357 magnum.

[FITASC]

The closest gun range that rents guns is 45 minutes away and I have a busy schedule so that's going to be after I get my CCW and actually when I go to buy the gun

Just a thought, perhaps I missed it, but if you do not have the gun now, what are you going to use for your CWL test? There is a live fire requirement.

[DA/SA Fan]

If you're open now to 9mm and CZ then don't neglect the CZ clones! Luv my TriStar T-120. Great light weight full size gun for carry. If the dust cover isn't your cup o' whiskey they also have an L-120. The C-100 is like the CZ compact but has an alloy frame in 9mm. The TriStars are good for larger hands. Even the compact version has a grip and trigger reach tailor made for larger mitts.

If you still think you might like .40 S&W (I wouldn't dissuade you. It's easy enough to get used to) All of these models should be available in .40 soon. The C-100 is good to go in .40 right now as is the P-100 (if you can find one) These are all steel guns though.

The TriStars are very close to the same as CZs at a very nice savings. The fit and finish are not quite the same although it's pretty close. The function is pretty much there though. I couldn't be happier with mine.

[Pond, James Pond]

I'd heavily endorse the CZs as others have done. Some really nice guns there. I had a G19. Personally didn't get on with the grip angle thing, but the gun ran beautifully and was accurate.

The Sig 2022 also seems to have one of those "best kept secret" followings!

Not massively insightful, but my thoughts.

[Cyanide971]

Nothing that I can really add that hasn't been already said, but from personal experience and, if I knew then what I know now and was brand new in the market, these would be my three choices for a 9mm/.40, semi auto pistol per firing/ignition method, and leaning more towards compact size:

Striker-fire:
• Glock 19/23
• Sig P320C
• FNH FNS-9/FNS-40
*Honorable mention to Steyr C9-A1/C40-A1, Walther P99 AS and PPQ, S&W M&P 9C.

Hammer-fired:
• CZ P-07
• Sig P250C (even though it's DAO)
• HK P2000 V2 LEM
*Honorable mention goes to CZ P-01/P-06/PCR, Sig P229 DAK, HK P2000 V3, Beretta PX4 Storm Compact.

[raimius]

There are lots of good 9mm and .40 full-sized pistols out there.

How much experience do you have? If it is not a ton, make sure you can afford to practice a bunch. 9mm helps for cost, unless you reload (in which case, the difference is less).

Ballistics wise, the .40 has some advantages, but they are not terribly much. You are still talking about a roughly 0.6 inch hole, if the hollowpoint expands correctly. Handguns are notoriously bad at killing or incapacitating with one shot, so train to deliver several good hits at a quick pace. 9mm has a slight advantage here, but not a whole lot.

Personally, I would recommend a 9mm, so long as you carry good hollowpoints. Looking at test statistics, Federal HST is the one I would pick, but there are several others the perform well and consistently. The 9mm tends to recoil less (quicker, accurate follow up shots become easier), and it is cheaper (more practice for the money).

That said, I'm not you, and I don't know all your criteria and the weights they receive. You have to make the right choice for you.

[marine6680]

Since CZ was brought up...

The CZ P-07 is about g19 sized. If you want a DA/SA for concealed carry and possible duty use, it is the one I would pick. It's lighter than the all steel and alloy framed CZs.

It would make a good all purpose pistol... Big enough for duty carry, and compact enough to not need much extra thought in concealment use.

Get the new gen 2 version. It has an angular looking hammer rather than a rounded looking hammer. It's just general improvements/refinement over the original, but the original is still good to go.

CZ makes good pistols.

The P-07 can be found for $400-450... While the metal framed CZs will be $500-600.

The P-07 Wil be a little cheaper than your other options you listed, except for the Ruger. While the ruger is a good pistol, it is not my first choice. Though if budget is a concern I always tell people to give them a look. The ruger is good but a bit rough around the edges... I would say spending a little more on a quality pistol is never a bad thing, you do get some improvements in fit and finish. There is a limit to this, as around the $500-600 range you get a very nice pistol, with decreasing returns as you spend more. (in the duty pistol category anyway)


So I think a g19 gen 4 or P-07 are good all around sized. (I like the CZ grip better)

The Sig 320 compact is a good option of similar size to the g19 as well, and it has a very good striker trigger.

The 320 carry model, puts the larger full sized grip on the compact sized slide, it was a requested configuration by some police agencies. You may like it better with large hands. (I am talking about the new version "carry", Sig renamed the old carry model the "compact", and introduced the new carry model... A little confusing if you don't know what to look for)

If you want full sized, I highly recommend the M&P with a trigger job or Apex kit... A VP9, a PPQ, or the Sig 320 full size or new version carry is close to full size.

For DA/SA the CZ P-09 is good, it has a lot of capacity, 19 in the magazine...

If you are willing to spend more the Sig P series are excellent options, in a variety of sizes. (around $800-1300 depending on model and options) I really like mine a lot.

[Frankly]

The price difference between 9mm and .40 S&W ammo is negligible.

[TunnelRat]

For some reason, there are folks who are so insecure about their 9mms that they have to invoke myths that deny the laws of physics. Chronies and ballistic gel don't lie. I have both.

Or maybe they've just seen the results of ballistic testing that don't show significant differences between 9mm, 40SW, or 45ACP. But no, let's just assume they're all making it up.

[Frankly]

Instead of alluding to unspecified reports, maybe they should work up their own best loads and go find out first hand whether a lighter bullet moving slower is the equal of a heavier bullet moving faster.

[TunnelRat]

The last refuge of those who spend their time online pretending to be smarter than everyone else rather than walking their talk.

Sounds oddly familiar to this current situation.

Have you ever chronoed a round or shot into ballistic gel? I've been doing so on a weekly basis for many decades, son.

Lol, "son"? Aww thanks.

Do you really expect to be taken seriously with an attitude such as that, or are you just trolling? Insulting others and immediately assuming your superiority in no way encourages anyone to give you your due, even if you have valuable information to share.