Interested in a Remington .44 conical mold?

maillemaker · October 27, 2015, 03:11 PM

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....41.0;topicseen

If you are interested in getting a conical, heeled bullet in .44 here is your chance. Noe needs 10 people to commit before pulling the trigger on the mold.

Steve

DD4lifeusmc · October 27, 2015, 05:22 PM

didn't see anything on price. with or without handles?

Id he making them himself or having them custom made?

Accurate moulds will make you almost any bullet you design.
But they are at about $190

swathdiver · October 27, 2015, 05:39 PM

Looks like a copy of an old Rapine but they were .452.

These picket type conicals with the pointy head punch small holes coming and going through whatever they hit which is why the Johnny Rebs preferred round ball. One looking for a historical round, this is it.

Today, we have the Elmer Keith inspired hard hitting conicals made for cap and ball sixguns by Kaido Ojamma.

DD4lifeusmc · October 28, 2015, 09:10 AM

Actually I don't much care for his.
Mostly too big to be easily loaded and since they are quite a bit taller than others, leave less powder room.

Yeah I know others claim they are good and like them and are hard hitting. To each his own on that.

He contacted me once about the ones I cast. Then he got beligerant with me
and I've read reports where he got beligerant with other also.

Either of these two are quite good
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=45-190R-D.png

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=45-195R-D.png

I used to cast both. But had the 190 modified a bit. Now I just cast the 190.
It's a bit shorter so is easier to pass under the frame at the loading window.
Because of the tapered wall design is easier to start straight keep straight and to press into place.

swathdiver · October 29, 2015, 02:39 PM

The Kaido conical is a proven killer on big game. I load the 240 grain, .44 caliber conical, off the gun on my Big Lube cylinder loading stand. Not caring to enlarge the opening. If I were to hunt with it, there's no need to reload on a day hunt.

The Kaido conicals are basically Elmer Keith bullets modified for cap and ball revolvers. That 190 of yours is a good looking round, nice big lube groove too!

All that being said, nothing outperforms a pure lead round ball inside of 25 yards anyhow!

maillemaker · October 29, 2015, 02:43 PM

I think the point of having a bullet like this is to make historically-correct cartridges more than anything else.

Steve

swathdiver · October 29, 2015, 05:06 PM

Then it is perfect and one can never have too many moulds anyhow!

rodwhaincamo · October 29, 2015, 05:39 PM

Like DD4 I feel Kaido's 240/255 grn bullets are a bit too long taking up precious powder capacity. I don't feel a large lube groove is necessary with a barrel no longer than 8", and I prefer a very wide meplat since expansion cannot be counted on which is why I had Accurate Molds work with me on a few designs.

bedbugbilly · October 29, 2015, 06:05 PM

Steve - if I had any 44 C & B I would be but I don't . . . .

As far as NOE molds - they are the blocks only - you can buy handles from them or sometimes use other's if you have them and they fit. That is a fairly well known thing for those that deal with any mold company whether it be NOE, Accurate, Lyman, RCBS or whatever . . . . .

I've been a part of a NOE "group buy" before and it's been a very positive experience - they are good folks to deal with. Before prices are thrown out there you need to be a little bit better informed on what they will run. The $190 figure thrown out there as far as Accurate Molds is not NOE . . . . if I remember correctly, the group buy I was in on was for a .325 - 130 grain bullet for a 8mm Mauser - I'm thinking that I paid about $85 for a two cavity aluminum set of blocks . if you are designing your own bullet . . then maybe Accurate Mold does charge $190l - I don't know but there is a big difference between designing your own bullet and ordering one mold and a guaranteed group buy of 10 or more. Anyway, all you have to do is go to the NOE site and take a look at their molds to get an idea of what prices are. And . . . before anyone mentions what a Lee 2 cavity mold runs . . . there is no comparison between a cheapie Lee mold and a NOE set of blocks . . . worlds apart!

Everybody has their own opinion and some can get along with others where others can't. All I know is that my experience with them is that they are very helpful in answering questions you might have. I have no personal connection with NOE whatsoever but they have an excellent reputation within the cast bullet community.

This looks like a nice authentic style bullet for a .44 and in the end, it's up to the individual as to whether it's worth the money for their use . . . just remember that the NOE molds are top notch and very high quality. As far as bullet design for any handgun or rifle . . . decide for yourself. Like anything on the Internet, you will get a wide variety of opinions on what is "best".

Steve . . . . good luck with your group buy! I can't help but think that enough will sign up for this to "get 'er done"!

swathdiver · October 29, 2015, 06:59 PM

Powder capacity can be made up by simply changing powder.

rodwhaincamo · October 29, 2015, 07:04 PM

Accurate Molds doesn't charge extra for custom designs.

Mine was a little over $200 for a 5 cavity aluminum mold with 3 different designs which costs a little bit extra.

DD4lifeusmc · October 29, 2015, 10:10 PM

Accurate moulds has a pretty much flat rate right at $190.
The OP didn't state any kind of price for the NOE moulds and before I would commit to buying a mould I would want a confirmed price.

Accurate moulds are in the higher dollar and quality category using steel not cheap aluminum.
I've had aluminum moulds and when casting 20,000 or so, they rend to warp and gall.
lee's are nice but too cheaply made.
Lyman are good and by being a much larger company are able to bring their prices down to about 1/2 of Accurate, but they also don't have near the selection. They say they will make you a custom one, but one I checked was over $300..
As to the wide lube groove I see no functional difference between it and the multiple skinny ones.

Many states don't allow the taking of big game with a percussion revolver, so be sure to check your state regs carefully.
As another poster said the NOE design is likely meant to be more historically correct.

Personally I wouldn't use a standard percussion revolver (1858 Remington / 1860 Army) for big game unless it was 25 yd or less. Too much chance of missing a vital spot, and possibly not deep enough penetration to vital areas.

A Dragoon or a Walker then yes maybe. an ROA again maybe.
I would stick with rifle (bp) for big game. The revolver if needed for the final dispatch.

Part of hunting ethics is the quick humane non suffering kill. For me too many what if variables in using a bp revolver even though they are capable.

My normal target is normally about 20 yd away a 8 inch or so long piece of 4x4 stuck vertically on an iron rod.

Very rarely miss it, and these 190's will tear chunks off. Not necessarily every time but they do.

maillemaker · October 30, 2015, 08:12 AM

Quote:

The OP didn't state any kind of price for the NOE moulds and before I would commit to buying a mould I would want a confirmed price.

If you go to their web site and look at their online store you will see that 2-cavity molds run about $100.

I bought 2-cavity .566 and .550 Pritchett molds. They are the only vendor I know of that can do a multi-cavity hollow-base minie-style bullet mold.

They are aluminum, but light-years ahead of Lee. The core pins are steel.

Steve

DD4lifeusmc · October 30, 2015, 08:49 AM

mailemaker
per the original post

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....41.0;topicseen

If you are interested in getting a conical, heeled bullet in .44 here is your chance. Noe needs 10 people to commit before pulling the trigger on the mold.

Steve
------------------
the link takes you to what appears to be another forum, until you mentioned the website, i stopped there. Now I clicked on the ad "visit our store"
and now after the fact I see it is a "store" and clicking on the various bullet calibers I see prices.
But to me that wasn't obvious in the OP.
But still Aluminum is aluminum. Much softer than Steel. so over time it will deform much easier. But I guess it would depend on how many bullets you realistically expect to cast.
When I was casting the 195 and 190's regularly I would do an average of a 1000 at a time. As I was selling quite a few of them. But health issues have made me slow down now.
As I stated, I stopped the 195's. And have stayed with just the 190's
Loading off the gun is quite acceptable, many do it, I have.
But you should be able to reload on the gun especially in the field.
Too that the much larger bullets just really can't be, unless one does modify the frame. And I have done that too.
I personally will stick with the smaller and lighter one.
Any game / varmits I would care to hunt with a BP percussion revolver the 190 is more than adequate if I do my part. But unless I was starving. I would not be hunting big game with it.
But as I said, to each his own on that.

rodwhaincamo · October 30, 2015, 01:35 PM

Not sure how you figure an Accurate Molds mold has a flat rate of $190. Looking now a .45 cal aluminum 2 cavity mold with one design is $92 + shipping.

DD4lifeusmc · October 30, 2015, 08:14 PM

I probably should of clarified that statement.
I meant for any mould that you order that you make changes to the basic design or make your own design from scratch.

The $190 average price there is equal too or even better priced than several other custom makers I have used over the years.

rodwhaincamo · October 30, 2015, 10:10 PM

He charges nothing to create your own design.

My 5 cavity mold used 3 different designs I made and each change increased the price by something like $15. But he charges nothing to make what I designed.

From the FAQ on his site:

"Does a custom design cost extra?
No, all orders are considered custom, since you can choose the diameter. Other changes such as different nose length, changed weight, or a whole new profile are all the same price as any cataloged design of that caliber."

DD4lifeusmc · October 31, 2015, 06:34 PM

Well I ordered four moulds from him.
Each one I did some minor modifications to the existing blue print.
Each one of them cost me right at $190.

So if the average as is mould is around $90, then he is indeed charging extra for custom.

taihrsot

rodwhaincamo · November 1, 2015, 10:43 AM

The cost is ONLY dependent on metal used and number of cavities. The only additional charges are for additional designs within a single mold. The price I gave was an aluminum mold with 2 cavities.

Of course I have no idea what all you purchased but I can garauntee that you weren't charged extra over his stated price which clearly states there is no additional fee for creating anything custom. It's all spelled out in black and white on his site.

Are you implying he is dishonest?

October 27, 2015, 03:11 PM	#1
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	Interested in a Remington .44 conical mold? http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....41.0;topicseen If you are interested in getting a conical, heeled bullet in .44 here is your chance. Noe needs 10 people to commit before pulling the trigger on the mold. Steve

October 27, 2015, 05:39 PM	#3
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	Looks like a copy of an old Rapine but they were .452. These picket type conicals with the pointy head punch small holes coming and going through whatever they hit which is why the Johnny Rebs preferred round ball. One looking for a historical round, this is it. Today, we have the Elmer Keith inspired hard hitting conicals made for cap and ball sixguns by Kaido Ojamma. __________________ “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” - Job 38:3

October 29, 2015, 02:39 PM	#5
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	The Kaido conical is a proven killer on big game. I load the 240 grain, .44 caliber conical, off the gun on my Big Lube cylinder loading stand. Not caring to enlarge the opening. If I were to hunt with it, there's no need to reload on a day hunt. The Kaido conicals are basically Elmer Keith bullets modified for cap and ball revolvers. That 190 of yours is a good looking round, nice big lube groove too! All that being said, nothing outperforms a pure lead round ball inside of 25 yards anyhow! __________________ “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” - Job 38:3

October 29, 2015, 05:06 PM	#7
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	Then it is perfect and one can never have too many moulds anyhow! __________________ “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” - Job 38:3

October 29, 2015, 06:05 PM	#9
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	Steve - if I had any 44 C & B I would be but I don't . . . . As far as NOE molds - they are the blocks only - you can buy handles from them or sometimes use other's if you have them and they fit. That is a fairly well known thing for those that deal with any mold company whether it be NOE, Accurate, Lyman, RCBS or whatever . . . . . I've been a part of a NOE "group buy" before and it's been a very positive experience - they are good folks to deal with. Before prices are thrown out there you need to be a little bit better informed on what they will run. The $190 figure thrown out there as far as Accurate Molds is not NOE . . . . if I remember correctly, the group buy I was in on was for a .325 - 130 grain bullet for a 8mm Mauser - I'm thinking that I paid about $85 for a two cavity aluminum set of blocks . if you are designing your own bullet . . then maybe Accurate Mold does charge $190l - I don't know but there is a big difference between designing your own bullet and ordering one mold and a guaranteed group buy of 10 or more. Anyway, all you have to do is go to the NOE site and take a look at their molds to get an idea of what prices are. And . . . before anyone mentions what a Lee 2 cavity mold runs . . . there is no comparison between a cheapie Lee mold and a NOE set of blocks . . . worlds apart! Everybody has their own opinion and some can get along with others where others can't. All I know is that my experience with them is that they are very helpful in answering questions you might have. I have no personal connection with NOE whatsoever but they have an excellent reputation within the cast bullet community. This looks like a nice authentic style bullet for a .44 and in the end, it's up to the individual as to whether it's worth the money for their use . . . just remember that the NOE molds are top notch and very high quality. As far as bullet design for any handgun or rifle . . . decide for yourself. Like anything on the Internet, you will get a wide variety of opinions on what is "best". Steve . . . . good luck with your group buy! I can't help but think that enough will sign up for this to "get 'er done"! __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

October 27, 2015, 05:22 PM	#2
DD4lifeusmc Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2012 Location: Wyoming Posts: 351	didn't see anything on price. with or without handles? Id he making them himself or having them custom made? Accurate moulds will make you almost any bullet you design. But they are at about $190

October 28, 2015, 09:10 AM	#4
DD4lifeusmc Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2012 Location: Wyoming Posts: 351	Actually I don't much care for his. Mostly too big to be easily loaded and since they are quite a bit taller than others, leave less powder room. Yeah I know others claim they are good and like them and are hard hitting. To each his own on that. He contacted me once about the ones I cast. Then he got beligerant with me and I've read reports where he got beligerant with other also. Either of these two are quite good http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=45-190R-D.png http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=45-195R-D.png I used to cast both. But had the 190 modified a bit. Now I just cast the 190. It's a bit shorter so is easier to pass under the frame at the loading window. Because of the tapered wall design is easier to start straight keep straight and to press into place.

October 29, 2015, 02:43 PM	#6
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	I think the point of having a bullet like this is to make historically-correct cartridges more than anything else. Steve

October 29, 2015, 05:39 PM	#8
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	Like DD4 I feel Kaido's 240/255 grn bullets are a bit too long taking up precious powder capacity. I don't feel a large lube groove is necessary with a barrel no longer than 8", and I prefer a very wide meplat since expansion cannot be counted on which is why I had Accurate Molds work with me on a few designs.

October 29, 2015, 06:59 PM	#10
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	Powder capacity can be made up by simply changing powder. __________________ “Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.” - Job 38:3

October 29, 2015, 07:04 PM	#11
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	Accurate Molds doesn't charge extra for custom designs. Mine was a little over $200 for a 5 cavity aluminum mold with 3 different designs which costs a little bit extra.

October 29, 2015, 10:10 PM	#12
DD4lifeusmc Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2012 Location: Wyoming Posts: 351	Accurate moulds has a pretty much flat rate right at $190. The OP didn't state any kind of price for the NOE moulds and before I would commit to buying a mould I would want a confirmed price. Accurate moulds are in the higher dollar and quality category using steel not cheap aluminum. I've had aluminum moulds and when casting 20,000 or so, they rend to warp and gall. lee's are nice but too cheaply made. Lyman are good and by being a much larger company are able to bring their prices down to about 1/2 of Accurate, but they also don't have near the selection. They say they will make you a custom one, but one I checked was over $300.. As to the wide lube groove I see no functional difference between it and the multiple skinny ones. Many states don't allow the taking of big game with a percussion revolver, so be sure to check your state regs carefully. As another poster said the NOE design is likely meant to be more historically correct. Personally I wouldn't use a standard percussion revolver (1858 Remington / 1860 Army) for big game unless it was 25 yd or less. Too much chance of missing a vital spot, and possibly not deep enough penetration to vital areas. A Dragoon or a Walker then yes maybe. an ROA again maybe. I would stick with rifle (bp) for big game. The revolver if needed for the final dispatch. Part of hunting ethics is the quick humane non suffering kill. For me too many what if variables in using a bp revolver even though they are capable. My normal target is normally about 20 yd away a 8 inch or so long piece of 4x4 stuck vertically on an iron rod. Very rarely miss it, and these 190's will tear chunks off. Not necessarily every time but they do.

October 30, 2015, 08:49 AM	#14
DD4lifeusmc Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2012 Location: Wyoming Posts: 351	mailemaker per the original post http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index....41.0;topicseen If you are interested in getting a conical, heeled bullet in .44 here is your chance. Noe needs 10 people to commit before pulling the trigger on the mold. Steve ------------------ the link takes you to what appears to be another forum, until you mentioned the website, i stopped there. Now I clicked on the ad "visit our store" and now after the fact I see it is a "store" and clicking on the various bullet calibers I see prices. But to me that wasn't obvious in the OP. But still Aluminum is aluminum. Much softer than Steel. so over time it will deform much easier. But I guess it would depend on how many bullets you realistically expect to cast. When I was casting the 195 and 190's regularly I would do an average of a 1000 at a time. As I was selling quite a few of them. But health issues have made me slow down now. As I stated, I stopped the 195's. And have stayed with just the 190's Loading off the gun is quite acceptable, many do it, I have. But you should be able to reload on the gun especially in the field. Too that the much larger bullets just really can't be, unless one does modify the frame. And I have done that too. I personally will stick with the smaller and lighter one. Any game / varmits I would care to hunt with a BP percussion revolver the 190 is more than adequate if I do my part. But unless I was starving. I would not be hunting big game with it. But as I said, to each his own on that.

October 30, 2015, 01:35 PM	#15
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	Not sure how you figure an Accurate Molds mold has a flat rate of $190. Looking now a .45 cal aluminum 2 cavity mold with one design is $92 + shipping.

October 30, 2015, 08:14 PM	#16
DD4lifeusmc Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2012 Location: Wyoming Posts: 351	I probably should of clarified that statement. I meant for any mould that you order that you make changes to the basic design or make your own design from scratch. The $190 average price there is equal too or even better priced than several other custom makers I have used over the years.

October 30, 2015, 10:10 PM	#17
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	He charges nothing to create your own design. My 5 cavity mold used 3 different designs I made and each change increased the price by something like $15. But he charges nothing to make what I designed. From the FAQ on his site: "Does a custom design cost extra? No, all orders are considered custom, since you can choose the diameter. Other changes such as different nose length, changed weight, or a whole new profile are all the same price as any cataloged design of that caliber."

October 31, 2015, 06:34 PM	#18
DD4lifeusmc Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2012 Location: Wyoming Posts: 351	Well I ordered four moulds from him. Each one I did some minor modifications to the existing blue print. Each one of them cost me right at $190. So if the average as is mould is around $90, then he is indeed charging extra for custom. taihrsot

November 1, 2015, 10:43 AM	#19
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	The cost is ONLY dependent on metal used and number of cavities. The only additional charges are for additional designs within a single mold. The price I gave was an aluminum mold with 2 cavities. Of course I have no idea what all you purchased but I can garauntee that you weren't charged extra over his stated price which clearly states there is no additional fee for creating anything custom. It's all spelled out in black and white on his site. Are you implying he is dishonest?