Plated bullets in 30 carbine? Load data?

Crosshair · February 22, 2007, 01:57 AM

I am getting an M1 carbine and plan on loading ammo for it. Search has not given me a whole lot of info so I figured I would ask.

I plan on using Berrys plated bullets, using the 110 grain 30 carbine bullet.

1. The M1 carbine has a "low" SAAMI max pressure of 40,000 PSI. Can I use regular jacketed 30 Carbine load data for plated bullets and get good performance?

2. Is there any significant advantage/disadvantage to using plated bullets in the 30 Carbine?

3. Dumb question but I know that someone MUST have tried it. Can I get away with using the .312", 90 grain bullet intended for the 32 Auto? I figure I would get better velocity using this bullet IF using it would no present any special risk.

4. I have heard that the 30 carbine operates at near proof levels for the M1's action, would I be best off by not using top end loads and sticking to mid range loads? (I normaly don't use max loads in my guns anyway, but I figured I would ask.)

5. I was planing on using either AA#9 or AA1680 powder to for my loads since I can get both as bulk surplus. (Yet another reason I don't go higher than mid-range loads, just in case it is a little out of spec.) Any problems or special notes when using these powders?

Thanks for any input.

Hotdog1911 · February 23, 2007, 02:02 AM

Plated bullets are a bad choice. I wouldn't. It's not that the people who make them are bad or anything, it's just that in the manufacturing process plated bullets just never come out any good. The diameters are off, length is off. They can not be crimped properly like a cast or true jacketed bullet can. Accuracy? Ha!

What kind of powder do you have picked-out? H110? WIN296?

cheygriz · February 23, 2007, 12:50 PM

I must repectfully disagree strongly with Hotdog's assessment of plated bullets. I've used tens of thousands of them in .38, 9MM, .40, 10MM, .45 (both ACP and Colt.)

However, I do agree with him about using them in the carbine, or any other rifle. Keep the velocity below 1300 FPS, and lightly taper crimp and they work fine. Roll crimp or drive to rifle velocities, and the plating strips of and causes you grief.

Crosshair · February 23, 2007, 01:07 PM

If I loaded them to that level would it still cycle the action?

cheygriz · February 23, 2007, 03:36 PM

Doubtful, but it might be worth a try.

jsflagstad · February 25, 2007, 08:33 AM

I have a Wildcat based on a 30 carbine and I use H110. Mine is basically just the 30 carbine necked down to .257 cal.

JSF

Hotdog1911 · March 2, 2007, 03:40 AM

Try this test:

Take your loaded, completed (plated) round and then assemble an identical round, same bullet weight & OAL, using a cast or FMJ bullet, and do the following comparison. Measure the OAL of the round. Then press the nose of the bullet back into the case with just the pressure of your fingertips and the side of your work bench. Then come back here and tell me about crimp. Oh! You say you can't crimp it as good? Really. I wonder why?

Yea, but but but but but...

Did you say chronograph. O.K. Now take your reloads to the range and run them over the Chrono. Did those run of the mill cast bullets have just a little tiny winnie bit better consistent velocity?

Yea, but but but but but....

Lets see...you can't crimp them worth beans, velocity isn't consistent...but now I'll hear all about how accurate they are. Sure.

Crosshair · March 2, 2007, 01:54 PM

You are welcome to your views and oppinion Hotdog1911. But do you have to be so arrogant and condescending about it?

I have used Plated bullet in my revolvers and have been able to crimp them just fine, velocity is consistant enough for me, and yes they are accurate. Mabee not to competition specs, but they do what I want. These are gona be plinking loads. I want something inexpenive that works.

azredhawk44 · March 2, 2007, 03:48 PM

I shoot .308 diameter 150gr flatpoint plated bullets from Berry's MFG out of my 30-30.

They aren't as consistent as the 170gr jacketed bullets I prefer, but they do OK. For ruining the day on a soda can at 50-75 yards they do just fine. I certainly wouldn't use one to plan a hunt on though.

I've never recovered one to see how well the jacket held up, but I have to be driving them around 2000fps. I'll use a minimum load of IMR4895 or H110.

I crimp them good and tight, never had one get shorter while in a tubular magazine.

Hotdog1911 · March 2, 2007, 11:21 PM

The 30 cal carbine has been out for a few years and there is already a couple of thousand guys who have successfully reloaded said cartridge(s) with a range of cast bullets that are (A) less expensive & (B) more apt to making an accurate and reliable reloaded cartridge than those loaded with anything plated.

I hear you on saving money. North Dakota doesn't have any unattended full & ripe money trees. None that I know about anyway. I've already been looking. Real hard. All the plated bullet makers that I know of also make an good cast bullet in the same configueration. These people arn't evil. They are just making something they think the market will buy & maybe plated does sell. But has in your case, plated bullets are inferior to cast and cost more than cast. How do I know this? I've already tried it. I liked the look of FMJs and I thought that I'd get the same performance out of a plated bullet as I would with a FMJ while saving some money. That's the hype. It doesn't work.

Back in the 60's & 70's they called the bullets 'Copper-Wash' instead of plated. The desire was there. Winchester fell for it & produced thousands of .357's, 158 grain, ~1,100 fps using them. Nothing but problems. Winchester would have saved themselves more money & time & disgruntuled customer complaints had they stayed with cast or jacketed.

Shooting & Reloading is old hat. There isn't anything new about the basics. Shooting performance is or it isn't. Period. It's all happening in front of you. Watch out for words like "sometimes, maybe, just-a-little, now and then" B.S. That kind of talk belongs in sports and liberals and will relieve you of your shooting dollar real quick like.

T. O'Heir · March 3, 2007, 02:39 AM

Copper washed bullets are just that. A bullet with a very thin coating of copper mostly just to change the colour. A plated bullet has the copper electroplated on. Tain't the same thing.
"...Can I get away with using..." Nope. Wrong bullet diameter.
Get a Lyman cast bullet manual if you insist upon using cast bullets. It has loads for the carbine. So does my old Lyman manual. You'll have to keep the velocities way down though.
A 110 grain HP with IMR4227 works well. Work up a load.
Beginning with the starting load, load 5 rounds only. Go up by half a grain of powder, loading 5 of each keeping them separate until you get to the max load in your manual.
Then go shooting. Shoot at 100 yards, for group only, slowly and deliberately off a bench. Change targets between strings of 5 and allow time for the barrel to cool.
When you find the best group, sight in.

Hotdog1911 · March 3, 2007, 12:35 PM

Taint the same thing. But the result is the same. NFG.

During the plated bullet manufacturing process they start with an undersized cast bullet and electoplate on the copper plating on to the bullet. As I understand it, the manufactures can't get an exact finished bullet diameter. It's not thru a lack of desire & trying; it's just than with the present technology they cannot get the diameter exact like they can with a cast or a traditional copper jacket. A plated bullet cannot be run thru a traditional sizer like a cast and exspect to get the same result. Same for bullet OAL & weight.

I don't want to upset anyones applecart. If the buyer & seller are happy who am I to interfear. It's just that if one is looking give-up some appearance a cast bullet will work just fine and give you better performance and you can save some bucks too boot. Remember, the same people who make the plated bullets all still have a hand in selling & making some profit if you buy cast from them.

I still have a couple of thousand of plated .45s, .44s, .38s, 9s all in different weights & configurations kicking around the reloading supply cabinet. I too thought I was buying champagne at beer prices. I don't have the heart to return the bullets because I know it would hurt their feelings. And I know their is someone out there that doesn't believe me and will all too glad to buy them.

James A. Mullins · March 16, 2007, 08:11 PM

I know nothing about plated bullets in a carbine. I use 110 gr serria soft points with H110. These are are .308 Dia. and are cheap as plated bullets.
As for sizing plated bullets both rainer and berrys state that their bullets are sized after plating. I

have shot many thousands of both brands in hand guns and have had excellent results. Using .312 Dia. bullets will strip the plating. Hard cast 115 or 125 gr cast and sized to .308 or .309 work great in a carbine. Best wishes.
James

February 22, 2007, 01:57 AM	#1
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	Plated bullets in 30 carbine? Load data? I am getting an M1 carbine and plan on loading ammo for it. Search has not given me a whole lot of info so I figured I would ask. I plan on using Berrys plated bullets, using the 110 grain 30 carbine bullet. 1. The M1 carbine has a "low" SAAMI max pressure of 40,000 PSI. Can I use regular jacketed 30 Carbine load data for plated bullets and get good performance? 2. Is there any significant advantage/disadvantage to using plated bullets in the 30 Carbine? 3. Dumb question but I know that someone MUST have tried it. Can I get away with using the .312", 90 grain bullet intended for the 32 Auto? I figure I would get better velocity using this bullet IF using it would no present any special risk. 4. I have heard that the 30 carbine operates at near proof levels for the M1's action, would I be best off by not using top end loads and sticking to mid range loads? (I normaly don't use max loads in my guns anyway, but I figured I would ask.) 5. I was planing on using either AA#9 or AA1680 powder to for my loads since I can get both as bulk surplus. (Yet another reason I don't go higher than mid-range loads, just in case it is a little out of spec.) Any problems or special notes when using these powders? Thanks for any input. __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

February 23, 2007, 02:02 AM	#2
Hotdog1911 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2006 Posts: 282	Crosshare... Plated bullets are a bad choice. I wouldn't. It's not that the people who make them are bad or anything, it's just that in the manufacturing process plated bullets just never come out any good. The diameters are off, length is off. They can not be crimped properly like a cast or true jacketed bullet can. Accuracy? Ha! What kind of powder do you have picked-out? H110? WIN296?

February 23, 2007, 12:50 PM	#3
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	I must repectfully disagree strongly with Hotdog's assessment of plated bullets. I've used tens of thousands of them in .38, 9MM, .40, 10MM, .45 (both ACP and Colt.) However, I do agree with him about using them in the carbine, or any other rifle. Keep the velocity below 1300 FPS, and lightly taper crimp and they work fine. Roll crimp or drive to rifle velocities, and the plating strips of and causes you grief. __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

February 23, 2007, 01:07 PM	#4
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	If I loaded them to that level would it still cycle the action? __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

February 23, 2007, 03:36 PM	#5
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	Doubtful, but it might be worth a try. __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

February 25, 2007, 08:33 AM	#6
jsflagstad Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Up Nort Posts: 419	H110 I have a Wildcat based on a 30 carbine and I use H110. Mine is basically just the 30 carbine necked down to .257 cal. JSF

March 2, 2007, 03:40 AM	#7
Hotdog1911 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2006 Posts: 282	Think plated bullets are good... Try this test: Take your loaded, completed (plated) round and then assemble an identical round, same bullet weight & OAL, using a cast or FMJ bullet, and do the following comparison. Measure the OAL of the round. Then press the nose of the bullet back into the case with just the pressure of your fingertips and the side of your work bench. Then come back here and tell me about crimp. Oh! You say you can't crimp it as good? Really. I wonder why? Yea, but but but but but... Did you say chronograph. O.K. Now take your reloads to the range and run them over the Chrono. Did those run of the mill cast bullets have just a little tiny winnie bit better consistent velocity? Yea, but but but but but.... Lets see...you can't crimp them worth beans, velocity isn't consistent...but now I'll hear all about how accurate they are. Sure.

March 2, 2007, 01:54 PM	#8
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	You are welcome to your views and oppinion Hotdog1911. But do you have to be so arrogant and condescending about it? I have used Plated bullet in my revolvers and have been able to crimp them just fine, velocity is consistant enough for me, and yes they are accurate. Mabee not to competition specs, but they do what I want. These are gona be plinking loads. I want something inexpenive that works. __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

March 2, 2007, 03:48 PM	#9
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	I shoot .308 diameter 150gr flatpoint plated bullets from Berry's MFG out of my 30-30. They aren't as consistent as the 170gr jacketed bullets I prefer, but they do OK. For ruining the day on a soda can at 50-75 yards they do just fine. I certainly wouldn't use one to plan a hunt on though. I've never recovered one to see how well the jacket held up, but I have to be driving them around 2000fps. I'll use a minimum load of IMR4895 or H110. I crimp them good and tight, never had one get shorter while in a tubular magazine.

March 2, 2007, 11:21 PM	#10
Hotdog1911 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2006 Posts: 282	I'm with you on the 'inexpensive' & 'it works' theory. The 30 cal carbine has been out for a few years and there is already a couple of thousand guys who have successfully reloaded said cartridge(s) with a range of cast bullets that are (A) less expensive & (B) more apt to making an accurate and reliable reloaded cartridge than those loaded with anything plated. I hear you on saving money. North Dakota doesn't have any unattended full & ripe money trees. None that I know about anyway. I've already been looking. Real hard. All the plated bullet makers that I know of also make an good cast bullet in the same configueration. These people arn't evil. They are just making something they think the market will buy & maybe plated does sell. But has in your case, plated bullets are inferior to cast and cost more than cast. How do I know this? I've already tried it. I liked the look of FMJs and I thought that I'd get the same performance out of a plated bullet as I would with a FMJ while saving some money. That's the hype. It doesn't work. Back in the 60's & 70's they called the bullets 'Copper-Wash' instead of plated. The desire was there. Winchester fell for it & produced thousands of .357's, 158 grain, ~1,100 fps using them. Nothing but problems. Winchester would have saved themselves more money & time & disgruntuled customer complaints had they stayed with cast or jacketed. Shooting & Reloading is old hat. There isn't anything new about the basics. Shooting performance is or it isn't. Period. It's all happening in front of you. Watch out for words like "sometimes, maybe, just-a-little, now and then" B.S. That kind of talk belongs in sports and liberals and will relieve you of your shooting dollar real quick like.

March 3, 2007, 02:39 AM	#11
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Copper washed bullets are just that. A bullet with a very thin coating of copper mostly just to change the colour. A plated bullet has the copper electroplated on. Tain't the same thing. "...Can I get away with using..." Nope. Wrong bullet diameter. Get a Lyman cast bullet manual if you insist upon using cast bullets. It has loads for the carbine. So does my old Lyman manual. You'll have to keep the velocities way down though. A 110 grain HP with IMR4227 works well. Work up a load. Beginning with the starting load, load 5 rounds only. Go up by half a grain of powder, loading 5 of each keeping them separate until you get to the max load in your manual. Then go shooting. Shoot at 100 yards, for group only, slowly and deliberately off a bench. Change targets between strings of 5 and allow time for the barrel to cool. When you find the best group, sight in.

March 3, 2007, 12:35 PM	#12
Hotdog1911 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2006 Posts: 282	Agreed. Taint the same thing. But the result is the same. NFG. During the plated bullet manufacturing process they start with an undersized cast bullet and electoplate on the copper plating on to the bullet. As I understand it, the manufactures can't get an exact finished bullet diameter. It's not thru a lack of desire & trying; it's just than with the present technology they cannot get the diameter exact like they can with a cast or a traditional copper jacket. A plated bullet cannot be run thru a traditional sizer like a cast and exspect to get the same result. Same for bullet OAL & weight. I don't want to upset anyones applecart. If the buyer & seller are happy who am I to interfear. It's just that if one is looking give-up some appearance a cast bullet will work just fine and give you better performance and you can save some bucks too boot. Remember, the same people who make the plated bullets all still have a hand in selling & making some profit if you buy cast from them. I still have a couple of thousand of plated .45s, .44s, .38s, 9s all in different weights & configurations kicking around the reloading supply cabinet. I too thought I was buying champagne at beer prices. I don't have the heart to return the bullets because I know it would hurt their feelings. And I know their is someone out there that doesn't believe me and will all too glad to buy them.

March 16, 2007, 08:11 PM	#13
James A. Mullins Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2006 Location: Vancouver Washington Posts: 124	I know nothing about plated bullets in a carbine. I use 110 gr serria soft points with H110. These are are .308 Dia. and are cheap as plated bullets. As for sizing plated bullets both rainer and berrys state that their bullets are sized after plating. I have shot many thousands of both brands in hand guns and have had excellent results. Using .312 Dia. bullets will strip the plating. Hard cast 115 or 125 gr cast and sized to .308 or .309 work great in a carbine. Best wishes. James