Rainier vs Berry's vs Zero

MikeRussell · April 29, 2007, 05:40 PM

Anyone have experience loading all 3 of these types of plated bullets? I had some Berry's 124gr PFP that I loaded up for my 9mm (over 4.1gr Vv N320 for those interested). They perform very well and give the accuracy I need for the type of shooting that I do (USPSA/IPSC)...actually they give better accuracy than I need, but I digress. I'd tried out some of the Moly/Poly coated bullets, but kept getting buildup in my barrel and I don't feel like having to scrub like crazy to get it out every time I shoot. So, I'm going back to plated bullets.

Is there really any difference between the brands? I can get the Zero's cheaper, but they don't have FP (only RN & HP). Rainier and Berry's have the 124gr FP, but the cost before shipping is what I'd pay for the Zeros INCLUDING shipping. I'm in a dilemma as to whether I should go with RN Zeros (HPs are sold out) or stick with Berry's or Rainier because I can get the FPs. Any input?

Bullet94 · April 29, 2007, 10:35 PM

I think the Zero’s are jacketed not plated. You might look here -

http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/

They list - Zero 9mm 125 Flat Point FMJ

shooter_john · April 29, 2007, 11:04 PM

I had very BAD luck with a box of Zero 10mm 165gr's, they were not uniform at all and crushed several cases.
I bought a box Berry's next, and I can't say anything but GOOD about Berry's, I didn't change anything on my dies or press from the Zero's and the Berry's went in fine.
No experience with Rainier, but a friend just ordered a few thousand of them, so I'll know soon enough!

CrustyFN · April 30, 2007, 06:43 AM

I use Berry's and Ranier and have had good luck with both. Zero is jacketed but I have never used them.
Rusty

VonFatman · April 30, 2007, 09:38 AM

Besides Zero's FMJ bullets...

Zero also makes some fine shooting swaged bullets. I use their 158gr SWCs and 148gr. HBWCs all the time and find they make wonderful inexpensive range bullets.

Bob

HSMITH · April 30, 2007, 09:40 AM

Zero jacketed bullets are awesome and then some. The only bullet I like better are the Hornady XTP's and they are only marginally more accurate at about twice the price.

Zero bullets shoot great out of my guns, well under an inch at 25 yards in a 9mm with optical sight and easily under 2 out of a couple different 40's.

Plated bullets just suck compared to plain lead or real jacketed bullets. If you are just plinking or shooting short range they work OK but I don't use them at all anymore.

PeteQuad · April 30, 2007, 09:52 AM

Excuse my ignorance but can someone tell me the difference between plated and jacketed bullets?

Is one harder on your gun or easier to clean than the other, and what other differences might there be?

I've been eyeing the Rainier bullets from midway, but haven't seen the zero ones. Can someone tell me where they can be found?

Overhill · April 30, 2007, 10:51 AM

I have been using Precision Delta jacketed bullets for some time with great success. They seem to be the same cost as plated and shipping is free. They have always been uniform in size and weight, and accurate.

layusn1 · April 30, 2007, 09:18 PM

Plated bullets use less copper than jacketed so they are often cheaper than name brand jacketed bullets but they afford you little to no leading in your barrel. They are a good compromise between price and performance but some say the sizes of plated bullets can vary because of the plating process and difficulty controlling how much metal gets on the bullet.

Bullet94 · April 30, 2007, 10:11 PM

Quote:

PeteQuad
I've been eyeing the Rainier bullets from midway, but haven't seen the zero ones. Can someone tell me where they can be found?

See my post above.

Jim Watson · April 30, 2007, 10:17 PM

I have been shooting Zero .45 FMJ for some time now.
I did not have good results from Rainier plated, have not tried Berry's.

8ring · April 30, 2007, 11:23 PM

In reply to Peterquad, plated bullets begin with a soft lead wire in the approximate diameter of the caliber. A swaging machine cuts the wire and forms the shape of the bullet. It then goes into an electroplating device which coats the entire bullet with a copper covering that may be around .002" thick. Sometime the bullet is "restruck" (resized) after the plating is attached.

(Frontier plated bullets are an expection. They use a hard-cast lead core and then add the copper plating. They give very good accuracy in .45 acp. I'm going to try some of their 147gr 9mm bullets.)

Plated bullets are cleaner than lead bullets because there is no exposed lead. However, plated bullets can be very sensitive to overcrimping (which can break through the plating) and high speeds/high pressures.

Jacketed bullets are made by forming the jacket out of copper, gilding metal, or brass. I think the lead core is poured into the jacket although I may be wrong. Jacketed bullets are harder, less senstive to crimping, and may be used at higher speeds and higher pressures. They are generally considered to be the most accurate pistol bullet. In most "full metal jacket" bullets, the lead base is exposed which can cause lead fumes in the air, a concern if shooting indoors.

Jackets bullets are probably "harder" on the bore than plated or lead bullets. However, with the quality of modern barrels and rifling, it could take tens of thousands of rounds to notice any difference.

Chris

PeteQuad · May 2, 2007, 08:08 AM

Thanks for the excellent information re: plating vs. jacketing. I checked powder valley and it looks like zero bullets are not available for .38spl and .44spl which is mainly what I shoot.

I typically use jacketed or semi-jacketed bullets mainly to cut down on the amount of lead I have to clean up, and for generally less exposure to lead. But I do not like that they are rougher on my barrels (I've heard this before, and I am beginning to buy older and older revolvers these days). I am less concerned with accuracy since I doubt they are less accurate than I am

It sounds like the plated bullets would have a similar effect on reducing lead as the jacketed bullets, and be easier on my barrels; would I be accurate in saying this?

Bullet94 · May 2, 2007, 08:27 AM

Powder Valley lists Zero .357 bullets(38 Special).

PeteQuad · May 2, 2007, 08:55 AM

Oh right, thanks

That's what I get for looking early in the morning.

PeteQuad · May 2, 2007, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Frontier plated bullets are an expection. They use a hard-cast lead core and then add the copper plating.

I've been looking into this plating stuff. The frontier bullets are made by a South African company and the only people I can find that sell them are Black Hills Shooters supply, who only sell to someone with a FFL. Is there anywhere else that sells them? Can someone give me a general idea of what the pricing is like so I can see if I am interested (possibly speak to my local FFL about them if they are cheap enough).

Thanks!

epr105 · May 3, 2007, 11:33 PM

I get the Frontier from T and T reloading in PA LINK http://216.15.64.227/
Phone call (610) 759-1449 for hours
I have been geting my stuff from him for years Good People.

ECLIPSE45ACP · May 4, 2007, 12:00 PM

I use Ranier exclusively, and have had nothing but good luck.

skydiver41 · March 16, 2008, 10:52 PM

This is an old thread but I wanted to share what I learned today in hopes that I may help to prevent an injury or damaged gun to others. I own 3 Glock 9mm's...a 34, 17 and a 26. Titegroup is my powder of choice. Hodgdon lists a 4.8 grain max for 115 grains bullets. I had safely worked up to 4.7 grains with both Winchester 115 JHPs and 115 FMJs. Not knowing much about the difference between jacketing and plating I assumed that there wasn't much of a difference. You all know what happens when we assume. I loaded up 200 rounds of 4.7 Titegroup over Rainier 115 JHPs.

I went to the range with trusty chronograph in hand expecting to see some nice, juicy 1200 plus readings and an effective new carry round. What I got was a stung hand and 3 case blowouts. DO NOT TRY THIS! All I can say is that the plated bullets must be causing pressure spikes well before the jacketed bullets so beware.

Sevens · March 16, 2008, 11:35 PM

Well, the Ranier website itself will warn you against trying to push these bullets too fast. "Plated bullets occupy a space between lead bullets and jacketed bullets." I think they recommend 1000 fps or less.

Plated bullets are definitely not jacketed. Compared to jacketed, the plating is micro-thin.

skydiver41 · March 17, 2008, 12:12 AM

You are right...they do warn against this. Basically I am admitting in public that I am a dumba$$ for not doing my research before loading up. I was lucky that I didn't get hurt or destroy my pistols in the process. As a form of self-punishment and also an attempt at heroics I sacrifice my pride in an attempt at saving another fellow shooter from the fate that I narrowly escaped!

Be safe out there! DON'T TRY TO PUSH PLATED BULLETS TO THE VELOCITIES THAT JACKETED BULLETS ARE CAPABLE OF!!! I am actually a fairly experienced reloader. Complacency got the best of me this week. I won't let it happen again.

Sevens · March 17, 2008, 01:09 AM

Appreciated!

I think we oughta start a thread where we all admit to something we've done at the bench that wasn't bright in the hopes of helping the next guy.

skydiver41 · March 17, 2008, 01:48 AM

That's pretty much what I was thinking when I decided to share this screwup. Up until now the only signs of approaching pressure limits I ever witnessed were a couple of pierced primers in my HP Silhouette rifle. Today was humbling.

In skydiving we often remind one another that "complacency kills". It can happen in this sport too. Pay attention or pay the price.

Bullet94 · March 19, 2008, 12:32 AM

I think I read when using plated bullets to use the loading data for lead bullets and work up from there.

freakshow10mm · March 19, 2008, 01:10 AM

Yes, use lead data or back off jacketed by 10%.

I've ran Rainier 155gr FP to 1400fps in 10mm with no issues.

April 29, 2007, 05:40 PM	#1
MikeRussell Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2006 Location: Carencro, LA Posts: 335	Rainier vs Berry's vs Zero Anyone have experience loading all 3 of these types of plated bullets? I had some Berry's 124gr PFP that I loaded up for my 9mm (over 4.1gr Vv N320 for those interested). They perform very well and give the accuracy I need for the type of shooting that I do (USPSA/IPSC)...actually they give better accuracy than I need, but I digress. I'd tried out some of the Moly/Poly coated bullets, but kept getting buildup in my barrel and I don't feel like having to scrub like crazy to get it out every time I shoot. So, I'm going back to plated bullets. Is there really any difference between the brands? I can get the Zero's cheaper, but they don't have FP (only RN & HP). Rainier and Berry's have the 124gr FP, but the cost before shipping is what I'd pay for the Zeros INCLUDING shipping. I'm in a dilemma as to whether I should go with RN Zeros (HPs are sold out) or stick with Berry's or Rainier because I can get the FPs. Any input? __________________ Mike Russell

April 29, 2007, 10:35 PM	#2
Bullet94 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Location: Kansas Posts: 723	I think the Zero’s are jacketed not plated. You might look here - http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/ They list - Zero 9mm 125 Flat Point FMJ __________________ PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT - Live Free or Die

April 29, 2007, 11:04 PM	#3
shooter_john Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2002 Location: ALABAMA Posts: 1,472	I had very BAD luck with a box of Zero 10mm 165gr's, they were not uniform at all and crushed several cases. I bought a box Berry's next, and I can't say anything but GOOD about Berry's, I didn't change anything on my dies or press from the Zero's and the Berry's went in fine. No experience with Rainier, but a friend just ordered a few thousand of them, so I'll know soon enough! __________________ TROTAC.com

April 30, 2007, 06:43 AM	#4
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	I use Berry's and Ranier and have had good luck with both. Zero is jacketed but I have never used them. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

April 30, 2007, 09:38 AM	#5
VonFatman Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2000 Location: Kansas City Posts: 587	Besides Zero's FMJ bullets... Zero also makes some fine shooting swaged bullets. I use their 158gr SWCs and 148gr. HBWCs all the time and find they make wonderful inexpensive range bullets. Bob __________________ "Onward thru the Fog"

April 30, 2007, 09:40 AM	#6
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	Zero jacketed bullets are awesome and then some. The only bullet I like better are the Hornady XTP's and they are only marginally more accurate at about twice the price. Zero bullets shoot great out of my guns, well under an inch at 25 yards in a 9mm with optical sight and easily under 2 out of a couple different 40's. Plated bullets just suck compared to plain lead or real jacketed bullets. If you are just plinking or shooting short range they work OK but I don't use them at all anymore.

April 30, 2007, 09:52 AM	#7
PeteQuad Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2007 Posts: 198	Excuse my ignorance but can someone tell me the difference between plated and jacketed bullets? Is one harder on your gun or easier to clean than the other, and what other differences might there be? I've been eyeing the Rainier bullets from midway, but haven't seen the zero ones. Can someone tell me where they can be found?

April 30, 2007, 10:51 AM	#8
Overhill Member Join Date: March 1, 2007 Location: PA Posts: 96	I have been using Precision Delta jacketed bullets for some time with great success. They seem to be the same cost as plated and shipping is free. They have always been uniform in size and weight, and accurate.

April 30, 2007, 09:18 PM	#9
layusn1 Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 54	Plated bullets use less copper than jacketed so they are often cheaper than name brand jacketed bullets but they afford you little to no leading in your barrel. They are a good compromise between price and performance but some say the sizes of plated bullets can vary because of the plating process and difficulty controlling how much metal gets on the bullet. __________________ www.ammobrasstrader.com

April 30, 2007, 10:17 PM	#11
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	I have been shooting Zero .45 FMJ for some time now. I did not have good results from Rainier plated, have not tried Berry's.

April 30, 2007, 11:23 PM	#12
8ring Member Join Date: October 26, 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 84	In reply to Peterquad, plated bullets begin with a soft lead wire in the approximate diameter of the caliber. A swaging machine cuts the wire and forms the shape of the bullet. It then goes into an electroplating device which coats the entire bullet with a copper covering that may be around .002" thick. Sometime the bullet is "restruck" (resized) after the plating is attached. (Frontier plated bullets are an expection. They use a hard-cast lead core and then add the copper plating. They give very good accuracy in .45 acp. I'm going to try some of their 147gr 9mm bullets.) Plated bullets are cleaner than lead bullets because there is no exposed lead. However, plated bullets can be very sensitive to overcrimping (which can break through the plating) and high speeds/high pressures. Jacketed bullets are made by forming the jacket out of copper, gilding metal, or brass. I think the lead core is poured into the jacket although I may be wrong. Jacketed bullets are harder, less senstive to crimping, and may be used at higher speeds and higher pressures. They are generally considered to be the most accurate pistol bullet. In most "full metal jacket" bullets, the lead base is exposed which can cause lead fumes in the air, a concern if shooting indoors. Jackets bullets are probably "harder" on the bore than plated or lead bullets. However, with the quality of modern barrels and rifling, it could take tens of thousands of rounds to notice any difference. Chris

May 2, 2007, 08:08 AM	#13
PeteQuad Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2007 Posts: 198	Thanks for the excellent information re: plating vs. jacketing. I checked powder valley and it looks like zero bullets are not available for .38spl and .44spl which is mainly what I shoot. I typically use jacketed or semi-jacketed bullets mainly to cut down on the amount of lead I have to clean up, and for generally less exposure to lead. But I do not like that they are rougher on my barrels (I've heard this before, and I am beginning to buy older and older revolvers these days). I am less concerned with accuracy since I doubt they are less accurate than I am It sounds like the plated bullets would have a similar effect on reducing lead as the jacketed bullets, and be easier on my barrels; would I be accurate in saying this?

May 2, 2007, 08:27 AM	#14
Bullet94 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Location: Kansas Posts: 723	Powder Valley lists Zero .357 bullets(38 Special). __________________ PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT - Live Free or Die

May 2, 2007, 08:55 AM	#15
PeteQuad Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 2007 Posts: 198	Oh right, thanks That's what I get for looking early in the morning.

May 3, 2007, 11:33 PM	#17
epr105 Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2005 Location: Sullivan County, New York Posts: 241	I get the Frontier from T and T reloading in PA LINK http://216.15.64.227/ Phone call (610) 759-1449 for hours I have been geting my stuff from him for years Good People. __________________ Two to the chest and one to the head

May 4, 2007, 12:00 PM	#18
ECLIPSE45ACP Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 177	I use Ranier exclusively, and have had nothing but good luck. __________________ GLOCK 17 9MM KIMBER ECLIPSE CUSTOM II .45 ACP COLT PYTHON 6" STAINLESS .357 MAGNUM "SPEAK SOFTLY AND CARRY A BIG GUN!"

March 16, 2008, 10:52 PM	#19
skydiver41 Junior Member Join Date: March 16, 2008 Posts: 8	Rainiers must be too soft This is an old thread but I wanted to share what I learned today in hopes that I may help to prevent an injury or damaged gun to others. I own 3 Glock 9mm's...a 34, 17 and a 26. Titegroup is my powder of choice. Hodgdon lists a 4.8 grain max for 115 grains bullets. I had safely worked up to 4.7 grains with both Winchester 115 JHPs and 115 FMJs. Not knowing much about the difference between jacketing and plating I assumed that there wasn't much of a difference. You all know what happens when we assume. I loaded up 200 rounds of 4.7 Titegroup over Rainier 115 JHPs. I went to the range with trusty chronograph in hand expecting to see some nice, juicy 1200 plus readings and an effective new carry round. What I got was a stung hand and 3 case blowouts. DO NOT TRY THIS! All I can say is that the plated bullets must be causing pressure spikes well before the jacketed bullets so beware.

March 16, 2008, 11:35 PM	#20
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Well, the Ranier website itself will warn you against trying to push these bullets too fast. "Plated bullets occupy a space between lead bullets and jacketed bullets." I think they recommend 1000 fps or less. Plated bullets are definitely not jacketed. Compared to jacketed, the plating is micro-thin. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

March 17, 2008, 12:12 AM	#21
skydiver41 Junior Member Join Date: March 16, 2008 Posts: 8	Yes You are right...they do warn against this. Basically I am admitting in public that I am a dumba$$ for not doing my research before loading up. I was lucky that I didn't get hurt or destroy my pistols in the process. As a form of self-punishment and also an attempt at heroics I sacrifice my pride in an attempt at saving another fellow shooter from the fate that I narrowly escaped! Be safe out there! DON'T TRY TO PUSH PLATED BULLETS TO THE VELOCITIES THAT JACKETED BULLETS ARE CAPABLE OF!!! I am actually a fairly experienced reloader. Complacency got the best of me this week. I won't let it happen again.

March 17, 2008, 01:09 AM	#22
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Appreciated! I think we oughta start a thread where we all admit to something we've done at the bench that wasn't bright in the hopes of helping the next guy. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

March 17, 2008, 01:48 AM	#23
skydiver41 Junior Member Join Date: March 16, 2008 Posts: 8	Yes That's pretty much what I was thinking when I decided to share this screwup. Up until now the only signs of approaching pressure limits I ever witnessed were a couple of pierced primers in my HP Silhouette rifle. Today was humbling. In skydiving we often remind one another that "complacency kills". It can happen in this sport too. Pay attention or pay the price.

March 19, 2008, 12:32 AM	#24
Bullet94 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Location: Kansas Posts: 723	I think I read when using plated bullets to use the loading data for lead bullets and work up from there. __________________ PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT - Live Free or Die

March 19, 2008, 01:10 AM	#25
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	Yes, use lead data or back off jacketed by 10%. I've ran Rainier 155gr FP to 1400fps in 10mm with no issues.