Decent Mini-Mill to learn the ropes on?

[tobnpr]

No machining experience (but experience with pretty much every other type of hand or powered tool) and want a machine that's of decent quality and precision to learn with.

Some research so far has led me to this, supposedly (?) a tiny cut above some of the other Chinese lathes made in the same factories as HF and Grizzly.
R8 spindle, better motor...

Fair assessment?

Solid column, or tilting head?

http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ory=1387807683

[Ritz]

That's not a bad deal considering that it comes with a bunch of stuff you'd otherwise have to buy anyway...clamping tools, vice, endmills, collets, etc. These are of approximately the same precision as the HR/Grizzly without the plastic gears to worry about. Though some folks just buy the cheaper mills and convert them to belt drive. R8 spindles are also nice because there is a lot of tooling available for it.

You could do a lot worse than the kit above. You'd eventually spend about the same on a cheaper one once you upgraded the weak links.

Best,

[HiBC]

If you look long enough,you can find a step pulley drive Bridgeport for about $2000 and it might even be single phase.Dont buy it if it has rusty ways or quill,more than .030 or so backash in the screws...maybe .040.I'd want X axis power feed.
Many of the Bridgeport clones are worthy.IMO,Lagun is not.A 3 phase machine will run fine on a Phase-o-matic. they are cheap.You will usually get collets and a vise.

The older cute little mills like Clausing,South Bend,and Index bring as much or more than a step pulley Bridgeport.

I did run a 3 axis cnc based on a little bed mill where the x/y table was fixed height and the head moved up/down on a dovetail way,plus quill feed.It was OK.Southwest brand with Anilam control.You can buy a little bed mill like that,but the two direction head tilt and a dovetail ram that can be swung off to one side or the other so adaptable...

Look at the machine specs. 5 inches y axis travel will barely let you square 4 in.Ica't tell from the pic,but what is max spindle height above the table?Picture that vise on the swivel base mounted on the table,now load an R-8 collet,then a drill chuck,and a 1/2 in drill.Got room?

Depends on what you want to do,but I'd go bigger.That is an example of a bed mill.Its just a bit small.
Not saying this is "the" machine you should buy,but it is an example that,if I lived within 300 miles of it,I'd golook at it with my money in my wallet.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bridgeport-K...item2ecf9886f7

[Clark]

I have been reading gun forums for 20 years, since usenet before the www.

The idea of a used lathe comes up again and again. I do not thing they are practical for 90% of the amateur gunsmiths. Better to buy new Chinese lathes.


But mills are a different story. Lots more mills being surplussed and fewer being bought.

I have a 1963 Rockwell 21-100 vertical knee mill that weighs ~ 600 pounds, takes an R8 collet, and cost ~ $2200 10 years ago on Ebay. As much as I modify it, I have not put DRO on it yet.

What does it all mean?
Get a knee mill. There are zillions of them in the rust belt on Ebay.

[tobnpr]

When I look at old machinery....like the Bridgeport linked above, I can't help but equate age, with wear and tear.
Granted, with proper maintenance and repairs as needed these old machines could represent a great value to the RIGHT individual.
One with the experience to know what to look for- and what he's looking at...
One who is capable of effecting the repairs himself, or has a really deep pocket and is willing to roll tbe dice.

Can't help it...when I see those old machines all I see is a huge repair bill the week after I bought it...even after the "expert" I pay to check it out gives it a clean bill of health.

[HiBC]

I will agree there is a balance there.
What is right for me,may not be right for you.
I began running machines in a 3 hr a day vocational machine shop class 1969.In 1974 I entered the trade,it became a 30 year career.I've run a lot of old machines.
Really beat,abused,totally wore out,yes,its junk.Beware fresh paint...its like evaluating a gun.Read the tracks.

Do it your way.You will get an education,one way or another.

[Bill DeShivs]

Buy a Taig. www.taigtools.com

[tobnpr]

Pulled the trigger, today:

http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ory=1387807683

Instead of renting the Holland DVD series on machining, I think I'm going to run an ad for a retired machinist (I live in an area of Florida full of retirees) to come over in the evenings to show me the ropes and make a few bucks on the side.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

Blue Ridge Machine & Tool had a video made by a retired Navy machinist, that would pretty much show you the ropes, but I can not remember the name of the video, and it was on VHS when I bought it years back, when I visited the Blue Ridge store. Any on here remember the title of it, and if it is still available?

Anyhow, it could have been two tapes, but it showed everything, from running a mill to a lathe. Also, how to use a lathe as a horiz. boring machine.

[tobnpr]

Thanks very much for the info- will check it out.

No Community College classes for this offered in my area...hell, my High School didn't even have "Shop"...

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

I found the videos, now on DVD, and by Steve Chellis.

Basic Metal Lathe Operation, Volume 1 - DVD:

http://www.blueridgeshoponline.com/p...&categoryId=11

Basic Metal Lathe Operation, Volume 2 - DVD:

http://www.blueridgeshoponline.com/p...&categoryId=11

Basic Milling Machine Operation - DVD:

http://www.blueridgeshoponline.com/p...&categoryId=11

I bought these years back, on VHS, for some tips, and they are good.

.

[tobnpr]

Thanks so much for taking the effort to locate them for me!

Tried to buy them but seems their e-commerce site is down- I keep getting a "coming soon" page when I click on the links you provided. I went to their homepage, and get the same errors when I try to access the products. Called, they're closed on weekends, but I'll keep trying.

Maybe they're doing maintenance right now and it'll be back up soon.

Thanks again.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

On the mill, Chellis shows how to tram the head, indicate a vise, different cutters, and the R8 spindle, and goes as far as setting up and doing several milling jobs.

On the lathe, he shows the general setup, using an indicator with a four jaw chuck and a use 3 jaw, how to cut threads, wind springs, cut tapers, and several other things, including using it like a horizontal boring mill.

You can give them a call, and place the order by phone. They're good guys, and is a good place to buy bronze and brass, they have a whole bay full of it for a small store.

[tobnpr]

10-4, will call them Monday a.m.
Thanks again.

[Ritz]

Pulled the trigger, today:

http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ory=1387807683

Instead of renting the Holland DVD series on machining, I think I'm going to run an ad for a retired machinist (I live in an area of Florida full of retirees) to come over in the evenings to show me the ropes and make a few bucks on the side.

I think you'll be happy with that setup. Nice mill and a decent amount of tooling to get you started.

[Jolly72]

I'm a machinist and have been doing it for close to 10 years now. There are all kinds of videos at youtube on how to get started and fourms on the mini mill. I have a 3 in 1 grizzly and have found all kinds of sites on mini mills, mini lathes and tooling. The best advice I can give you right out of the gate is rigedity, the more ridgid you set up is the better.

Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch Q using Tapatalk 2

[g.willikers]

A recent issue of Popular Mechanics had an article on the Shapeoko cnc milling machine that sells for under $700.
It doesn't look like it's for steel, though.
Mostly for softer materials, like wood, aluminum and such.
Might be good for learning on, too.
https://www.inventables.com/technolo...kit-shapeoko-2

[Ritz]

That's more of an engraving machine and not nearly rigid enough for anything much harder than delrin or wood. The movement available on the Z axis is also very limited.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

the more ridgid you set up is the better.

Amen!

I was working at a machine shop that made large pump parts, and we turned a lot of stainless rings that had to be parted off. A younger machinist asked me one day how did I part them off without them chattering, and I explained the same, keep the tooling close in, so it is rigid. The same goes with the machine, the larger, the more rigid, and the bigger bite it can take.

[Ultravox]

I have a ShapeOko and it's more than an engraving machine.

I use it to make all kinds of things. I make grips for several different pistols and used it to make a crossbow pistol that shoots mini-marshmallows.

People use it to mill aluminum too, though I have not done that yet.

If you are interested in more about what it can do, check out my ShapeOko blog posts here: http://timf.anansi-web.com/wp/shapeoko/ and the ShapeOko forum site here: http://www.shapeoko.com/forum/

[iraiam]

Pulled the trigger, today:

http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ory=1387807683

I have almost that same setup, but mine has the geared head (noisy). Precision work is no problem, just do proper, rigid setups and use descent tooling and no one will know it wasn't machined on a Bridgeport. I have machined Ordinance Steel and Stainless on mine.

Now you have a need for tooling, there is really no place to stop here once you decide to make a lot of stuff, my last investment was a divide head and rotary table, I have a few sets of gear cutters also and can make my own spur gears, learned from watching youtube videos and reading machinists books.

[Ritz]

Re: shapeoko

Using it as a router to shape wood pistol grips is a LOT different than being useful for milling metal. While I'm sure you could use it on aluminum, you're not going to get precision repeatable results with that design. It's not nearly rigid enough. Great for wood/plastic projects I suspect.

[tobnpr]

Good to know, guys.

Carrier called me today, liftgate delivery tomorrow between 10:00 and 2:00...
At "only" 221 lbs, at least I can get it into the garage with a hand truck.

Like a kid at Xmas, 'cept I won't know what the heck to do with it when I get it uncrated

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

I've been seriously thinking about getting a small mill, too, and to be honest, I would say that this mill will probably be able to do the majority of milled gun work you get. When you look at machining parts or modifying a gun, especially cutting a dovetail, etc., this one will most likely do the job. Sometimes, I think a knee mill is overkill on smaller jobs. My guess is, this one will handle up to a 1/2" end mill pretty easy, just don't take huge cuts with it. You can either buy or make a fly cutter, for flattening and sizing stock, and if this doesn't include one, that would be one thing to look at, along with some dovetail cutters.

[Alex Johnson]

That should prove to be a nice little hobby mill for you as long as you keep your cuts small and strive to make as rigid a setup as possible. I would suggest staying with 3/8" and smaller end mills for most of your work 1/4" would be a good starting point. Fly cutters can be nice tools for large surfaces, but keep your cutting depth shallow. The Home Model Engine Machinist forum is a good place to go for info on these smaller machines and there are some others out there as well.

There is a wealth of information on these mini machines out there, you just need to look for it. Once you get comfortable with the mill it will only be a matter of time until you start looking at lathes. Also, beware of accessories, the initial cost of the machine is just the starting point, I have spent far more on tooling over the years than I did on my initial machine purchases.