Just won this on Gunbroker couple of days ago.

[Bill Akins]

REMINGTON MODEL 11 12 GA. WITH LYMAN CUTTS COMP.

Built like a tank. Already has the bolt fiber buffer (and rivet) replaced.
Comes with the desirable Cutts compensator with three choke tube
attachments. Usual dings dents and tiny splits in the stock (splits
are relatively easy to epoxy). This one has the in the trigger guard safety,
(instead of the button safety), so that means it was made anywhere
from 1903 up to 1927.

Got it for $140.00, which just goes to show, there are good deals
out there on semi auto shotguns if you don't mind buying good used
time proven models that still have lots of life left in them. This is the
second great deal I got on a Remy model 11 in the past month. My
other one only cost me $151.99, both great deals. Found them both
on gunbroker while looking for a good deal on a Winchester model 50
(which I haven't yet been able to find a good deal on yet).

Nothing modern about the Remy 11,....except it will hit and kill anything just as well as a modern tactical shotgun will. If I chop the barrel and re-locate
the bead sight and Cutts compensator, it will look just like the Remy 11 used
by Clyde Barrow of "Bonnie and Clyde" fame. Best to keep the barrel a tad over 18 inches to avoid special registration, and even longer if you plan on using it with the Cutts compensator, because you have to make sure the Cutts comp will clear the mag tube when the barrel recoils. And the other nice thing about the Remy 11, is that unlike the Browning auto 5, (that the Remy is a clone of), the threads of the Remy's mag tube will fit a mag tube extension for the Remy 870 or 1100. So you can extend the mag tube on a Remy 11 if you want by just screwing on an aftermarket Remy 870 or 1100 tube mag extension. Can't to that with a Browning auto 5, since the threads are different on the end of the Browning's mag tube.

Was talking to my nephew on the phone today, and he was telling me
about how he was thinking of getting a semi auto tactical shotgun and
all the goodies that can be attached to it. I started telling him about these
older shotguns and how inexpensively they can be had, and how they can
do anything a tactical one can do, and how maybe a light being attached is okay, but nothing else is needed really, and told him about keeping weight down, and he said "hmmmm" and he listened. The bottom line is "does the lead hit the target?", and it definitely does with these older but still VERY serviceable old tanks of a shotgun. Nothing else matters really.

Again, $140.00 bucks! You just can't beat that for a semi auto that the same thing brand new today, all machined steel and old craftsmanship would cost you several thousand today. Just a little TLC and these model 11's can be excellent home defense guns, or still use them for hunting. They really are "sleepers" as far as value for your money goes if you shop a bit on gunbroker. Scroll down at that link and check out all the pics of it at this below link. That's sure a lot of value for $140.00 bucks!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=368115513




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[Virginian]

That is about average for a Model 11 with a Cutts Compensator on it in the shape described.

[Bill Akins]

Virginian-in-LA wrote:
That is about average for a Model 11 with a Cutts Compensator on it in the shape described.

Really Virginian? Show me another complete Remington model 11, 12 gauge with a Cutts compensator and three Cutts choke tubes included, on Gunbroker for what you think is the "average" price of $140.00.
Just the Cutts compensator main body and three choke tubes would cost you more than $140.00

There is currently only one other Remy 11, on Gunbroker with a Cutts compensator on it, and unlike mine which has the 1903 to 1927 in the trigger guard safety, that one has the button safety (so it's post 1927 up to 1947) for the FIXED PRICE of $275.00 at this link....
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=369404739

But $275.00 is a lot more than $140.00 and it's a later model (1927-1947) and not as much of an antique as mine is, and only comes with the short choke tube, whereas mine came with that same choke tube, plus two other choke tubes. Remy 11's simply don't come along for $140.00 with all those goodies that often. Usually they will run you at least $200.00 or more, and even then, that doesn't include a Cutts compensator and three Cutts choke tubes. I know because I watch Remy 11's on Gunbroker all the time, as well as at other auctions while I search for a good deal on a Win model 50.

Again Virginian, show me just one complete Remy 11 with a Cutts compensator on it, with three Cutts choke tubes included, that is manufactured from 1903 to 1927, (and thus more of an antique than the button safety post 1927 models),..... that is currently on Gunbroker, (or any other online auction), for what you said is the "average" price of $140.00
Show me even one, just exactly like that.


Forgetting the Remy 11 for a moment, try to show me even just one, old style slotted, Cutts compensator main body, with three choke tubes included with it, for a 12 gauge, on gunbroker. You can't because there currently aren't any listed. I know because I search gunbroker for them all the time. You can find the choke tubes, but there aren't any Cutts compensator main bodies for a 12 gauge currently on GB. The last available Cutts main body on Gunbroker was about a week ago, (gone now) and it came with the main body, and all the tubes in its original wooden box, and it sold for around $425.00 or some ridiculous amount around that figure. I had it marked in my "watch" list, but deleted it when it went over $400.00 which was just nuts. So finding an in the trigger guard safety Remy 11, with the Cutts compensator body, with three included Cutts choke tubes, all in one package for $140.00 is definitely NOT the average norm.

I know because I have all the under $200.00 Remy 11's saved in my Gunbroker "watch list", and there currently aren't anymore on GB like the last one I got with the Cutts compensator, for $140.00 nor anywhere around $140.00

Now will one come up in a week or two, with no reserve, and sell for $140.00 like in the instance of the one I got? Maybe, but it still won't be the "average" price. The average price, according to my watching them, in worn but good used condition, is at least $200.00 to $300.00 without any extra goodies like the Cutts body and its choke tubes. Just last week I corresponded with a seller who was selling a Remy 11 on Gunbroker, in good but worn condition, without any goodies at all, and he told me his reserve was $425.00 I politely thanked him and then deleted that from my "watch" list. I have enough guns now if I never bought another one, so I don't buy unless it's a smokin good deal on one. I don't get antsy and impulse buy. I learned a long time ago that there's another bus (gun deal) in 15 minutes.

So I patiently wait until I see what has the earmarks of a good deal. That is:

1. No reserve.

2. Seller started the auction early in the morning on a weekday, so that the auction will end early in the morning on a weekday, when most people are either going to work or at work, or perhaps not even up yet if they are retired. So if it has no reserve, I know if I am high bidder I will win it, and if it ends at an inconvenient time for most people to be watching it at its auction end, then I am watching it then, and have a good chance of getting it because few people will be watching at that time to outbid me.

3. The item has extra "goodies" with it that the same gun on other auctions doesn't have, and or it is way under the price of the same model gun at other auctions. Those three things are the earmarks of a good auction to watch.

But just because great deals like that don't happen every day to me, that doesn't mean folks here shouldn't keep a watch out and shop for a good deal on one like I do. The Remy 11 makes a great inexpensive alternative to a high dollar semi auto that can't do anything better than the old Remy 11 can do. You just have to bide your time, shop, and wait to jump on the good deal when you see it.





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[shortwave]

The $140 would be a deal in these parts as well.

Congrats Bill and enjoy.

[Virginian]

Wow, defensive much? Sorry, I read $240. If you are happy more power to you.

[Bill Akins]

Not defensive at all Virginian, just asking you to justify your statement by showing me one. If you could have done that, I would have conceded that you were correct.

I never wrote $240.00, I wrote $140.00....two times. Plus in the link I provided, it showed the price of $140.00 I got it for at the auction.
If you misread, that's not my fault, nor me being defensive. But since I wrote "$140.00" several times in my original post and it was also on the won auction link, I don't see how you could have mis-read that figure three times. Check your glasses? Lol. No worries. No harm, No problem.



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[Bill Akins]

Shortwave wrote:
The $140 would be a deal in these parts as well.

Congrats Bill and enjoy.

Thanks shortwave. I'd like to get a shorter barrel for it and attach that Cutts compensator to it, but finding a good deal on a good shape Remy 11 twelve gauge barrel is hard to find. I saw several but they cost as much as I could get the whole gun on another auction for. There is one on Ebay right now for a good price, around $20.00 (so far), but its exterior is real badly pitted and the inside of the bore is a moon landscape. So no go on that one. Plus the decent barrels I did see for sale weren't already cut either. So unless I can come across a good shape barrel for a reasonable price soon, although I don't like cutting an original barrel down, that's probably what I'll do and then re-attach the Cutts compensator and reinstall the bead front sight too. Unless anyone here has a Remy 11, 12 gauge barrel they would like to sell for a reasonable price?

I'll probably keep the original 30 inch barrel on my other Remy 11 "sportsman" version, and simply continue my project with it where I installed a standard Remy 11 five shot tube to replace the "sportsman" two shot tube, and will continue that project with installing an aftermarket mag tube extension so the tube will hold nine or ten shells. While keeping the original 30 inch barrel length for hunting and clay shooting on that Remy 11.

But with this Remy 11, that I just won with that Cutts comp, I just have to make that one look like Clyde Barrow's Cutt's compensated shortie for home defense, but with a mag tube extension, although not a real long mag tube extension like I'm putting on my other one, because I don't want this one to have a real long barrel, plus the Cutts comp on the barrel has to be able to clear the mag tube when the barrel recoils. So that limits the length I can cut the barrel and still have the Cutts comp attached and the mag tube extension has to match up to the correct length for the cut barrel to recoil.

But if after measuring, I find that the barrel will be too long for my liking (if I attached a mag tube extension to it), then I'll just keep it the five shot tube that's already on it so I can cut the barrel shorter and the Cutts comp on the end of the barrel can still clear the end of the mag tube during recoil. The barrel recoils about four inches rearward. So the rear of the Cutts comp has to be a tad over four inches further out than the end of the mag tube in order for it not to hit the mag tube when the barrel recoils.

Once I get the Remy, I'll just have to measure and then make my decision on what the barrel length will be, and if I will install a mag tube extension or not. Probably not, because I'd only get one or two shots more anyway if I wanted to keep the barrel short. Just have to see.

I've seen that Remy 11 with the Cutts comp, "Clyde Barrow" short barrel mod clone done by others (only without a mag tube extension) and really like how it turned out. But my barrel will be at least 18 inches long, and maybe several inches longer. For the $140.00 I've got in it, I can't go wrong. Heaps cheaper than a modern tactical/combat semi auto short barrel one, and does the same job. Plus with it already dinged up, I won't get upset over "first ding" like on a new one. Lol.


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[stepmac]

The Remington model 11 is a fine shotgun. John Browning himself simplified the gun so that Remington could produce it cheaper than FN could produce theirs. It is an Auto 5 except for the speed loading and magazine cutoff features. They made them from around 1911 to 1947.

Robt Stack placed second in the youth skeet championship using a Model 11 20 gauge with a Cutts attached.

Cutts, Power Pac and Lyman choke devices were popular in the 1940's and afterwards. They worked fine.

A nice Remy model 11 with a Cutts Compensator can be a very fine shotgun. They are just old fashioned, which to me, makes them even better.

[stepmac]

Another comment on the Remy Model 11. They are often quite inexpensive and are therefore great buys. In 12 gauge they are heavy. I was raised shooting my grandfather's. It had a Poly-choke attached. I lugged it all over the wheat fields in western Kansas. It shot fine.

Today I own two, a 20 and a 16, really wonderful shotguns. Learn to adjust the friction rings, most folks don't. IMO a Remington Model 11 in 20 gauge is about as good a shotgun as you can buy. One has to learn to "shoot over the hump". Doing so helps me fix my cheek onto the comb.

There are no fleas on a Remington Model 11 shotgun.

[jehu]

My father had that very same gun with the cutts on it and we waterfowl hunted alot. Say goodbuy to your duckblind buddy's or get them some good hearing protection because that Cutt's is hard on whoever is next to it.

[Fishbed77]

Looks like good deal to me.

My father has a Model 11 that was my grandfather's primary hunting shotgun. It has no doubt taken tens of thousands of game birds in its life (and looks it). My brother recently replaced the furniture on it and still occasionally takes it dove hunting.

[Virginian]

Yep, my buddies and I won't allow Cutts, ventilated PolyChokes, or ported barrels around our dogs at all either. They definitely increase the noise factor everywhere but directly behind them.

[Bill Akins]

The Cutts compensator does a good job of reducing recoil.
It does this via the slits in the compensator body, which are equally on the top and bottom, which not only redirects the gases upward and downward (which helps to stabilize the barrel but doesn't really reduce muzzle jump/rise), but reduces the rearward recoil of the barrel because before the gases exit the slits, the gases first have to enter the slits. And when the gases enter the slits, and before they exit the slits, they first push FORWARD against the edges of the slits. Thus pushing forward on the barrel and reducing rearward barrel recoil. Also the gases hit against the edge of the screwed in chokes which helps to push the barrel forward and further reduce recoil. That's why whenever using a Cutts compensator, you have to set the friction rings on the mag tube to their lightest/least amount of friction settings for the action to cycle correctly.

I want to cut the barrel back and then reinstall the compensator. It's already been cut past its choke anyway when the compensator was installed so the barrel itself is cylinder bore already and only is able to be choked because of the removable choke tubes of the Cutts comp, so I wouldn't be cutting a choked barrel. Then I want to reinstall the compensator on a much shorter barrel. It came with three choke tubes for the Cutts comp. A full choke, modified, and a spreader, (essentially the spreader makes it like a blunderbuss). This is what it looked like from the auction pic before I got it, showing it with the long full choke tube on it. When I got it, I took that long full choke tube off and keep the very short spreader tube on it for home defense. The spreader tube is very short, much shorter than the full choke or modified tubes.......


I've done quite a bit of research on how the Cutts compensator is attached to the barrel. The main body screws off, and what is left is a threaded sleeve/lug that is attached to the barrel in one of several ways according to my research.

Some posters say it is pinned. But most posters have said that there is a thin brass sleeve over the barrel that the sleeve/lug is pressed over and then the whole area is heated and SILVER SOLDERED. (Not low heat SOFT solder like used in soldering electronics). Not as much heat as normal welding, but silver solder/hard solder, is stronger than soft solder and recognized by ATF as "Permanently attached". ATF does not recognize SOFT solder as being "permanently attached".

"Permanently attached" doesn't help me legally in this instance, since that is just the sleeve/lug that the main comp body screws on to and does not increase the length of the barrel at all. But if I also silver soldered the threads of the main comp body to the sleeve/lug, then that WOULD help me legally, since if I wanted to, I COULD actually cut the barrel shorter than 18 inches, and when the sleeve/lug AND the main body of the Cutts comp were "permanently attached" (silver soldered) to the barrel, as long as the "permanently attached" sleeve/lug AND "permanently attached" compensator and the rest of the barrel met or exceeded 18 inches and the overall length of the shotgun was at least 26 inches, then it would conform to ATF standards.

In other words the sleeve/lug AND the compensator body, BOTH have to be permanently attached via silver solder if I want to be able to include them as part of my barrel's length. Otherwise if they weren't both "permanently attached", it would be an illegal short barrel shotgun unless I registered it. You also have to realize that the screw on choke tubes on the end of the Cutts comp body, won't count towards the length of the barrel since they are removable. Of course if I go this route and permanently attach both the sleeve/lug AND the comp body, I wouldn't be able to easily screw off the comp body anymore for easy cleaning. But that's okay, a bottle brush will clean it and its slits well enough even if "permanently attached" to the barrel.

I haven't tried to remove the sleeve/lug from my barrel yet, but I will soon. Then I will find out if mine was pinned (as some posters have claimed) or if it is silver soldered and if there is any kind of thin brass sleeve under it. But not ready to do that just yet. I'll post and show the results if or when I do that.

I have found something interesting that may help some of you load one extra shell into your Rem 11's mag tube that you couldn't load previously. Here's the info on that....

This is what the mag tube spring retainer is supposed to look like.


But somewhere along the line, someone had cut the top out of mine and had drilled a hole through a wooden dowel that was about an inch and a half long and put the end of the spring through the hole in the wooden dowel. An old style mod probably done years ago. It didn't really plug the mag tube that much and only prevented loading a fifth shell. So I don't know why someone did that. Perhaps it was so that they could easily change the wooden dowel for a longer dowel that WOULD plug the mag tube so only two shells could be loaded for hunting purposes. That's the only reason I can figure it was done.

The dowel prevented the spring from coming out the cut off and enlarged end of the spring retainer. I removed the dowel and used a penny that had its ridges sanded down to plug the end of my spring retainer so it would hold the spring. Worked perfect. However, even though both my other Rem 11 and this one would hold five shells of low wall brass 7&1/2 bird shot, I found that when I tried to load high wall 00 buck brass, that they would only hold four shells. I measured the shells and sure enough the high wall brass 00 buck were a leeetle bit longer than the low wall birdshot. Here's a picture I took that shows the difference in the length of the shells. Low wall brass 7&1/2 birdshot on the left, high wall brass 00 buck on the right.....


What if I decided to make the barrel shorter to the point that I wouldn't be able to put a mag tube extension on it after I reinstalled the Cutts comp? Because if I opted for that configuration, the Cutts comp would not allow me to put a mag tube extension on it, because under recoil the Cutts comp would hit the muzzle end of any mag tube extension. So if I wanted the shortest legal length barrel I could have, with "permanently attached" Cutts comp included in that length, then I cannot use a mag tube extension, and the way it was, I could only load four instead of five high wall brass 00 buck shells. Well I didn't like that at all and wanted it to load five of WHATEVER 2&3/4 shells I wanted to load into it. Because if I DO shorten it that short, and therefore cannot use a mag tube extension, I want to be able to at least load five shells of any kind,...low wall brass birdshot or high wall brass 00 buck. If I decide to make her a shortie barrel, I want to be able to at least load five of anything in the tube.

I noticed that the fifth 00 buck shell (I couldn't completely load) would almost, but not quite fit in the mag tube. It lacked about 1/4 inch of loading. Soooo, I had bought a spare fore end retainer ring and used that as a spacer. The fore end retainer ring is about 1/4 thick, so here's what I did. I removed the plunger and spring assembly from the front of my fore end, because when I put the spare fore end retainer ring over the muzzle end of the mag tube, it would prevent the wooden fore end plunger from contacting my end cap's scallops anyway. So there was no need for it and I can use it on a spare fore end I bought for my other Rem 11. But that means I will have to regularly check my mag tube cap to make sure it stays tight since it doesn't have the spring loaded plunger engaging the scallops on the cap to ensure the cap doesn't get loose. But I keep it pretty tightly screwed on anyway, so no worries, I just remember to check it for tightness after shooting.

I also installed my mag tube spring retainer so that only about an 1/8th of an inch of it was still in the mag tube. This allowed me to allow the retainer to "seek its own level" when I put the fore end retainer ring over the end of the mag tube and tightened down the tube cap. That way I wasn't pushing it in, but allowed the screwed on cap to push it in as far as the spacer'd out cap would push it. The extra 1/4 inch of space I gained in the mag tube, by using the fore end retainer ring as a spacer, allowed me to (just barely) load five high wall brass 00 buck shells. Here's the pics to illustrate.....

My mag spring retainer that was cut out by someone that I plugged with a penny. See how far I didn't push it all the way into the mag tube? That's so it could seek its own level of being pushed into the tube by the mag tube cap when I screwed on the mag cap after using the fore end retainer ring as a spacer......


Spare fore end retainer ring I used as a spacer is on the left, tube cap on the right.


Fore end retainer ring I used as a spacer, slipped onto tube under cap. This allowed just enough space for the spring retainer in the mag tube, to extend a little past the end of the mag tube, (but without coming out), so I could load a fifth shell. See how the spacer removes the scallops of the cap away from the spring loaded plunger (I removed) in the end of the fore end that normally makes sure the cap doesn't get loose? I'd rather be able to load a fifth shell and just check my cap for tightness periodically.


And that's how I got my Rem 11 to load five high wall brass, 00 buck shells into the mag tube, instead of only being able to load four. I did have one advantage in that the top of my mag tube spring retainer did not stick up high anymore like it did originally, because someone had drilled/cut it out (I plugged it with a sanded down ridges/edges penny). So it didn't stick up as high as a non modified original one would, and the fore end retainer ring was just barely enough of a spacer to allow me to load that fifth shell.

I might not have been able to load that fifth shell (even with the spacer) if my mag tube spring retainer hadn't been cut down so it didn't stick out as far as it originally did. So if anyone wants to try putting a spacer on their mag tube like I did in order to get a fifth high wall brass shell loaded, you might have to drill/cut off the top of your mag tube spring retainer. Try the spacer first, and if that doesn't work for the fifth shell to load, then you'll know you have to cut off the top of the mag tube spring retainer and plug it with a sanded down ridges penny like I did. Or you could try a bit thicker spacer without drilling/cutting off, the top of your mag tube spring retainer. If you do that, just be sure your mag tube has enough threads left for the cap to screw on and hold adequately though.


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[Bill Akins]

After doing the spacer mod on my Rem 11 shotgun's mag tube, to enable loading five shells of any kind of 2&3/4's into the mag tube, I took the old girl out today to the shooting range with a shooting buddy of mine, and shot her for the first time ever, just to check performance and operation. She operated flawlessly. No jams of any kind. I fired low wall brass no 8 shot, and also high wall brass 00 buck. Sure was a lot of fun.

The R.O. told me to go to the faaaar end of the line where they had one steel target holder set up specifically for shotguns. He said they didn't want me busting up the other wooden target holders with shot. So I was kind of down there by myself away from everybody except for my shooting buddy with me. I set up my F.B.I. target (silhouette of man with one hand on hip) stapled to large piece of cardboard, and fired off a lot from the shoulder and was very satisfied. Then I tried firing from the hip and did that twice firing off five rounds two different times as fast as I could function the trigger. The old Rem 11 cycles crazy fast! Blew the target away! Was talking to an R.O. friend there later after finishing shooting telling him about how good and fast she operated firing even from the hip. He told me "no you didn't, I didn't hear that", and smiled. I didn't know they didn't allow firing from the hip until he told me then. But I was so far down the line no one saw me doing it. Can't do that there again, but sure was fun at the time . Not to mention good practice for shooting from the hip. Five rounds gone in less time than you could quickly count to five. I mean fast....rat, tat, tat, tat, tat. Not as fast as if I'd bumpfired it, but darn fast. Going to try bumpfiring it from the hip one of these days, (using the thumb in the belt loop method) just for kicks.

I had the spreader tube (blunderbuss tube) screwed onto the end of the Cutts compensator for the whole firing session. I checked the slits in my Cutts comp body every few rounds to see if any plastic shot carrier pieces had lodged in them as I've heard some people post and say can happen. No pieces of plastic were in my comp body slits.

I plan to cut the barrel further than it has already been cut, and then reattach the Cutts compensator, for a home defense shotgun. I gotta tell ya, you can put all kinds of tacticool tricks and treats on a shotgun, and have a fancy new tacticool shotgun that weighs a ton, but they won't work any better at throwing lead downrange than this old Remy 11 did today. Only thing I'd consider putting on it after I cut the barrel shorter, would be a flashlight mount under the fore end. That's it. Sure was a satisfying range day. No range pics but here's some pics I took (after getting back home from the range) of the Remy with the short spreader tube on the end of the Cutts comp, next to a bag of spent shells I shot. I save the shells to be reloaded.





One nice thing about buying these old Rem 11 shotguns, (got two now) is that you don't have to worry about the rifling in the barrel being shot out from years of firing like in some old rifles. Sometimes you can't really eyeball tell how worn down the rifling is in an old rifle, if the rifling was EVENLY worn down from shooting and isn't pitted. But that's not a concern in an old shotgun, because there's no rifling to worry about. The other nice thing is, that as my eyes get older and my hands get a bit more shaky than they used to be, I don't have to worry about accuracy as much with my old shotguns. I've really come to like these old Rem 11 shotguns and although I've got handguns and rifles, after today's shooting session, I've decided that for any distance that doesn't require a rifle, this Rem 11 is my "go to" gun around the homestead. (Still sleep with the grip of a S&W model 1917 .45 acp sticking out the side of my mattress within instantaneous reach though ).


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