8mm pistol??

dreamweaver · September 10, 2011, 05:35 PM

i bought an 8mm galois palm pistol (not revolver) and can't figure out what ammo it shoots.
Lebel revolver ammo won't work.
Steyr has an 8mm center fire available and there's the short .32's .
the galois was made from 1890-1920.
any ideas? maybe an older reloading manual would have some info?
thanks in advance.
tom

**Unclenick** · September 10, 2011, 06:05 PM

I think the French have produced quite a number of 8mm rounds over time. I don't currently have my copy of Cartridges of the World, but that's where I would look first. The other thing to do would be to take a chamber cast and see what might come close that could be converted. Pressure is bound to be pretty low.

Some of the old palm squeezers are valuable. You may also want to loo it up in the Blue Book of Gun Values or some similar reference.

Jim Watson · September 10, 2011, 09:30 PM

The Gaulois cartridge is unique to the gun. The 1911 Alfa catalog lists it as "8mm special" when illustrated with the gun and "8mm Gaulois" in the ammunition charts. It is a VERY short cartridge, even shorter than .32 S&W.
As said, a chamber cast and some careful forming and loading would be required.

One was shown on Sons of a Gun, the Red Jacket handloader managed to turn out a couple of rounds just to show the one they had would actually fire.
They valued the gun at $1200 but I don't know if they actually got that for it.

darkroommike · September 10, 2011, 09:33 PM

Saw one on TV (Auction Hunters or sons of Guns), that used a .32 rimfire cartridge, good luck finding some! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfSzadHtGAc

Galois are collectible and valuable, don't know if I'd want to blow my hand off shooting it.

dreamweaver · September 11, 2011, 10:07 AM

the one in the utube is a chicago. very pricey little guns these days.
the galois preceded it and is a vertical stack 6 shot. i'll post a picture.
thanks
tom

dreamweaver · September 11, 2011, 11:08 PM

jim, just bought the Alpha catalogue.
thanks for the lead

tom

shaunpain · September 12, 2011, 08:07 AM

Google turned these up... I'm sure you've seen 'em but on the off chance you didn't...

http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/revolver.htm - info on round specs.

http://www.horstheld.com/0-Gaulois.htm - general

http://www.collectorebooks.com/gregg01/Lot-7.htm - a picture of the bottom of some cartridges... only picture I'm finding.

dreamweaver · September 12, 2011, 09:20 AM

shaunpain, thanks for the links! the cartridge chart is just what i needed!

tom

shaunpain · September 12, 2011, 04:28 PM

Much obliged! Cheers! Have fun with that little rascal

dreamweaver · September 12, 2011, 07:42 PM

here's a pic.
the machine work is amazing!
now if i could just fine some ammo for it!

tom

warrior poet · September 13, 2011, 10:11 AM

Wow, I learned something that I didn't even have a clue about. The only 8mm pistols I knew about were some Japanese ones from WWII and the fake ones used in films. (Don't hate me too much on that, an old friend is a in the movie business, having worked up to his current job as an Assistant Director- he tries to make 'gun accurate' movies, really- and he exposed me to the world of Hollywood fakery.)

dreamweaver · September 14, 2011, 02:53 PM

before i got this little toy the only 8mm i knew about were mauser and nambu.
never even heard about gasser or leben and the others.
in looking at other calibers i'm seeing a lot of ammo that was made for a single gun and no longer made (the gun or the ammo). very interesting reading.

tom

James K · September 14, 2011, 06:54 PM

Just FWIW, the invaluable White and Munhall list the 8mm Gaulois as also being used in the Le Merveilleux and Mitrailleuse*, apparently similar pistols. AFAIK, all were made in France and neither the guns nor the cartridges were ever made anywhere else.

*In French, the word "mitrailleuse" means "machinegun", but I think it safe to say that the word was used as a tradename for a pistol, and that the tiny 8mm was never used in anything that could realistically be called a machinegun.

Jim

dreamweaver · September 15, 2011, 10:40 AM

thanks james!
i was able to find a gentleman who can supply some ammo. he's a custom loader and very reasonable.
i hope to have a range report soon.

tom

Jim Watson · September 15, 2011, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Just FWIW, the invaluable White and Munhall list the 8mm Gaulois as also being used in the Le Merveilleux and Mitrailleuse*,

I blew past the Merveilleux because Alfa illustrates it with a 6mm cartridge, but if you read the fine print, Cat. No. 343c says "like 343b except cal 8mm (special cartridge) for 5 shots.'

The Alfa catalog lists the Gaulois as the "Pocket Mitralileuse "Gaulois"".
They didn't have a separate model "Mitralileuse" so I wonder about that designation. Of course they didn't carry everything made (just most) and the Mitralileuse may not have been available in 1911.

James K · September 15, 2011, 01:20 PM

They also might have been two names for the same pistol, with W&M listing both for completeness. At this point, I doubt we will ever know. I have a Gaulois with parts missing; I don't think I will ever find the parts or even a single round of ammo. But it is neat, even if it doesn't (couldn't) fire.

Jim

dreamweaver · September 15, 2011, 01:58 PM

james i have an exploded schematic of the galois i could email to you.
might help you identify missing parts. i could then give you dimensions off mine.
send me your email if you're interested.

tom

James K · September 15, 2011, 09:38 PM

I appreciate the offer, but there are just too many missing parts, and trying to have them made would cost more than the gun is worth. Again, thanks.

Jim

dreamweaver · October 6, 2011, 06:39 PM

here's a picture of the gun and the 8mm ammo.
the case is a 30-30 for size comparison.

tom

September 10, 2011, 05:35 PM	#1
dreamweaver Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Posts: 713	8mm pistol?? i bought an 8mm galois palm pistol (not revolver) and can't figure out what ammo it shoots. Lebel revolver ammo won't work. Steyr has an 8mm center fire available and there's the short .32's . the galois was made from 1890-1920. any ideas? maybe an older reloading manual would have some info? thanks in advance. tom __________________ http://takdriver.com/

September 10, 2011, 06:05 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	I think the French have produced quite a number of 8mm rounds over time. I don't currently have my copy of Cartridges of the World, but that's where I would look first. The other thing to do would be to take a chamber cast and see what might come close that could be converted. Pressure is bound to be pretty low. Some of the old palm squeezers are valuable. You may also want to loo it up in the Blue Book of Gun Values or some similar reference. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

September 10, 2011, 09:33 PM	#4
darkroommike Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2011 Location: western Iowa Posts: 205	palm pistol Saw one on TV (Auction Hunters or sons of Guns), that used a .32 rimfire cartridge, good luck finding some! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfSzadHtGAc Galois are collectible and valuable, don't know if I'd want to blow my hand off shooting it.

September 11, 2011, 10:07 AM	#5
dreamweaver Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Posts: 713	the one in the utube is a chicago. very pricey little guns these days. the galois preceded it and is a vertical stack 6 shot. i'll post a picture. thanks tom __________________ http://takdriver.com/

September 11, 2011, 11:08 PM	#6
dreamweaver Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Posts: 713	jim, just bought the Alpha catalogue. thanks for the lead tom __________________ http://takdriver.com/

September 10, 2011, 09:30 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	The Gaulois cartridge is unique to the gun. The 1911 Alfa catalog lists it as "8mm special" when illustrated with the gun and "8mm Gaulois" in the ammunition charts. It is a VERY short cartridge, even shorter than .32 S&W. As said, a chamber cast and some careful forming and loading would be required. One was shown on Sons of a Gun, the Red Jacket handloader managed to turn out a couple of rounds just to show the one they had would actually fire. They valued the gun at $1200 but I don't know if they actually got that for it.

September 12, 2011, 08:07 AM	#7
shaunpain Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 854	Google turned these up... I'm sure you've seen 'em but on the off chance you didn't... http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/revolver.htm - info on round specs. http://www.horstheld.com/0-Gaulois.htm - general http://www.collectorebooks.com/gregg01/Lot-7.htm - a picture of the bottom of some cartridges... only picture I'm finding. __________________ "Shut up, crime!"

September 12, 2011, 09:20 AM	#8
dreamweaver Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Posts: 713	shaunpain, thanks for the links! the cartridge chart is just what i needed! tom __________________ http://takdriver.com/

September 12, 2011, 04:28 PM	#9
shaunpain Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 854	Much obliged! Cheers! Have fun with that little rascal __________________ "Shut up, crime!"

September 12, 2011, 07:42 PM	#10
dreamweaver Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Posts: 713	here's a pic. the machine work is amazing! now if i could just fine some ammo for it! tom __________________ http://takdriver.com/

September 13, 2011, 10:11 AM	#11
warrior poet Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2007 Location: Whereever Uncle Sam wants to put me Posts: 415	Wow, I learned something that I didn't even have a clue about. The only 8mm pistols I knew about were some Japanese ones from WWII and the fake ones used in films. (Don't hate me too much on that, an old friend is a in the movie business, having worked up to his current job as an Assistant Director- he tries to make 'gun accurate' movies, really- and he exposed me to the world of Hollywood fakery.) __________________ Trigger control: The skillful manipulation of the trigger, which causes the weapon to fire, while maintaining sight alignment and sight picture.

September 14, 2011, 02:53 PM	#12
dreamweaver Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Posts: 713	before i got this little toy the only 8mm i knew about were mauser and nambu. never even heard about gasser or leben and the others. in looking at other calibers i'm seeing a lot of ammo that was made for a single gun and no longer made (the gun or the ammo). very interesting reading. tom __________________ http://takdriver.com/

September 14, 2011, 06:54 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Just FWIW, the invaluable White and Munhall list the 8mm Gaulois as also being used in the Le Merveilleux and Mitrailleuse, apparently similar pistols. AFAIK, all were made in France and neither the guns nor the cartridges were ever made anywhere else. In French, the word "mitrailleuse" means "machinegun", but I think it safe to say that the word was used as a tradename for a pistol, and that the tiny 8mm was never used in anything that could realistically be called a machinegun. Jim

September 15, 2011, 10:40 AM	#14
dreamweaver Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Posts: 713	thanks james! i was able to find a gentleman who can supply some ammo. he's a custom loader and very reasonable. i hope to have a range report soon. tom __________________ http://takdriver.com/

September 15, 2011, 01:20 PM	#16
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	They also might have been two names for the same pistol, with W&M listing both for completeness. At this point, I doubt we will ever know. I have a Gaulois with parts missing; I don't think I will ever find the parts or even a single round of ammo. But it is neat, even if it doesn't (couldn't) fire. Jim

September 15, 2011, 01:58 PM	#17
dreamweaver Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Posts: 713	james i have an exploded schematic of the galois i could email to you. might help you identify missing parts. i could then give you dimensions off mine. send me your email if you're interested. tom __________________ http://takdriver.com/

September 15, 2011, 09:38 PM	#18
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I appreciate the offer, but there are just too many missing parts, and trying to have them made would cost more than the gun is worth. Again, thanks. Jim

October 6, 2011, 06:39 PM	#19
dreamweaver Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Posts: 713	got some ammo!!! here's a picture of the gun and the 8mm ammo. the case is a 30-30 for size comparison. tom __________________ http://takdriver.com/