Powder question, 30-06 and .454 Casull

Big Yac · April 23, 2005, 02:44 PM

I've been relaoding shotguns for the past 10 or 11 years. I now am about to buy a Rockchucker and begin reloading my rifle/pistol ammo. I'm wondering what is a good powder for the 30-06 and .454 Casull. With my shotguns I've always been an Alliant guy (Red Dot and Herco) so I'm thinking of trying Reloader 19(30-06) and 2400(.454). The bullets I'd be using for the 06 are Sierra 180gr HPBT match bullets. My friend reloads them for me now using IMR 4895 and I'm getting really good groups of 1" and a shade under out at 300 yards. I keep hearing that Reloader 19 is too slow for 180gr bullets. Is this true? Also for the .454 Casull would Hodgdon H110 be better than 2400? Id be using 260 and 300gr bullets. Thanks. By the way, I just came across this board yesterday and I must say I already like it.

mbartel · April 23, 2005, 03:14 PM

can't help much with the '06, but the .454 and I go back a ways...for practice and general plinking loads, I have always liked Unique with copper plated bullets from Rainier or Berry's. I use the load data from Lyman's Pistol & Revolver Reloading Handbook 2nd or 3rd editions. For full power loads, I like Hodgdon's Lil'Gun, I use the load data from Hodgdon's website or their 2004 updated reloading manual. A lot of folks like H-110 or Win 296, and some swear by AA#9. 2400 will also work, but it won't give full velocity like the ball powders will, also for me it burns dirty and leaves too many unburned powder particles that get under the extractor star in my SRH and bind up the cylinder.

Anyway there are a lot of knowledgeble shooters in this forum, and they will shed some more light on your post. Good luck....

Jim Watson · April 23, 2005, 03:31 PM

All I've got is word of mouth, but an experienced long range competitor told me that Re 19 was a very good powder for .30-06. I will likely try it when I have run down the stock of 4064 and Varget a bit. But if I were getting one inch groups at 300 yards, I would be sure to keep some 4895 in the house.

armedandsafe · April 23, 2005, 06:13 PM

I've been using 4350 with Sierra BTs for the -06 since 1947. Including competition. I like things that work, so haven't changed.

Pops

Big Yac · April 23, 2005, 10:22 PM

most definately, I will keep the 4895 here. I'm thinking my inch groups at 300 yards to be somewhat lucky. Young (24 years old) eyes help but I think I got lucky and found a good powder/brass/bullet combo. I cant remember the exact charge of 4895 but I"ll check tomorrow and post it. I found the rifle groups best too with the Sierra 180gr HPBT match bullet and Winchester brass thats been full length resized. I am planning to pick up some RL-19 just to play with it. Also a friend who I shoot with all the time was a sniper in the Marine corp and he showed me a few different ways to do things and hes the one who helped me dial in the gun.

Also for the .454 Casull I think I"m just going to go with the H110.

cheygriz · April 23, 2005, 10:39 PM

I use H 414 exclusively in the .30-06 nowadays. I have used IMR 4350, 4064 and 4895 in the past with good results. But the 414 is a spherical powder that meters perfectly through powder measures, and shoots very accurately in my rifles. 414 is basically a spherical version of 4350, i.e., they burn at about the same rate.

For 454 Casull, .44 Magnum, and .357 Magnum, I've had my best results with H110. Currently, I use H 110 exclusively in these calibres.

Chip 2 · April 24, 2005, 02:52 PM

As you say your new to reloading rifle and handgun loads, I would suggest you do try some different powders, to see if there is a sweet spot of bullet, powder, primer combination. The primers are another item you should experiment with. They do make a difference in accuracy. But as the other posters stated the load in the 06 with 4895 would be hard to beat. I can't help you with the 454 as I have never owned one. But In my 44 mags I have always leaned on H110. I've tried Bluedot, 2400, and a couple others over the years, but always go back to H110.

Sturm · April 24, 2005, 04:04 PM

Big Yac, if you are getting 1" groups at 300 yards with 4895, your friends were very good to you and if you didn't have to do much load development to get there, you were very fortunate, but, it happens. I think you'll be hard pressed to exceed this level of accuracy. In the 30-06, the powders that I see recommended the most for accuracy and great all around use are IMR-4064 and H-414. Reloader 15 (which is slower in burn rate than 4895) can sometimes surprise folks as an accuracy powder and Reloader 19 is suitable for hunting loads, but it is a bit on the slow side for 30-06, but that doesn't mean it's carved in stone, especially if velocity is what you need in the hunting load. IMR or H-4350 can also be used for 150, 165 and 180 gr. hunting loads with success. IMR-4350 is hard to beat for hunting loads in a lot of calibers that don't require something even slower, i.e. Magnum rounds, and even then it will work well in a lot of them.

I don't load the .454 Casull, but I don't use 2400 in any of the Magnums that I do load. I do have some recommendations, so take the previous statement into consideration. My oppinions are based on powder burn rates and pressure characteristics. Before I used 2400, I would look at the competition. Hodgdon; H-110 and maybe even better, Lil Gun. Winchester; W-296 because that's all there is. H-110 and W-296 are very similar powders that are made for them by Primex, but I think I would keep looking because the .454 is a very high pressure cartridge and something just a bit faster may prove to be better. Lil Gun would get the nod over H-110 or W-296. Accurate #9 could be great and is slightly faster than Lil Gun, but Accurate is pushing the newer 4100 for this use. At almost Identical burn rate to AA#9, is Ramshot Enforcer (Western Powder Co.).

I just don't need the power of the .454 and I tend to shoot a lot of rounds when I shoot Magnum Revolvers, so I definitely don't need that level of constant recoil. If I started loading the .454 Tomorrow, undoubtably I would use Ramshot True Blue and some may not be familiar with it. It is faster than AA#9, but slower than AA#7. It is a great powder for slightly less than full throttle velocity while still giving decent load density, but the thing I can't overlook is the standard deviations it achieves with maximum loads, so I'll list the three from their #3 load guide and more data is available at their website: www.ramshot.com
These are the Max. loads. with True Blue. from a 7.5" barrel (not listed) The Hornady 240 gr. load is reduced by 10% for a start load. For the 300 gr. XTP and the 300 gr. Nosler Partition, No reduction is recommended.

240 gr. Hornady XTP, Rem 7 1/2 primer, Win. case, OAL 1.765" PC 20.0 grs. velocity 1662 FPS @ 46,460 PSI. Standard Deviation is 5!

300 gr. XTP Rem. 7 1/2 primer, Win. case, OAL 1.760" PC 19.0 grs. velocity 1552 FPS @ 52,030 PSI. SD is 5!

300 gr. Nosler Partition, Fed 205M primer, Win. case, OAL 1.760" PC 19.5 grs. velocity 1557 FPS @ 53,570 PSI. SD is 6!

The SAAMI recommended Maximum Average Pressure for the .454 is 65,000 PSI, so you can see that you are getting excellent performance with more than a 10,000 PSI safety margin and getting single digit Standard Deviation in the bargain. This is EXTREME ballistic uniformity for a round this powerful.You will find higher velocity load data with other powders, but it is not likely that SD's will be listed nor will they likely be single digit.

Big Yac · April 25, 2005, 01:03 AM

Sturm, yes I feel really lucky that I found such a good 30-06 load on the first try. I probably wont be as lucky with the .243, .25-20 or the .454

For the .454 Casull I may just pick up several 1lb bottles of powder and see which works best. H110, True Blue and Lil' Gun are on the list. Thanks everyone.

Also, another question. Before I start reloading on my own I figured I'd get a digital scale. The balance type scale is fine for my shotgun reloading but I figured for metallic reloading digital would be the way to go. I"m between two brands right now. RCBS and PACT. Both scales are combination dispencer/scale types. Anyone have any opinions on these particular scales?

Lennyjoe · April 25, 2005, 10:59 AM

I use IMR 4350 for 150/165 loads in the -06.

Dogjaw · April 25, 2005, 06:29 PM

I've had poor results with 4350, and use W760 for 06 and 250 Sav. Just couldn't get a good group out of my rifles with it. I guess that's why they make more than one powder.

Desert Dog · April 25, 2005, 09:31 PM

Another vote for Lil' Gun in 454 Casull.

Another powder for 454 I have used and gotten good results is AA1680. Slightly slower than the W296/H110 twins, I get a better SD.

But you just cannot beat Lil' Gun in big bore pistol...

Big Yac · April 25, 2005, 11:25 PM

another question. For the .454 Casull what powder will give me nice big flames with each shot?

Sturm · April 25, 2005, 11:38 PM

That is one area that 2400 may prove to be tops!

Lennyjoe · April 26, 2005, 12:03 AM

Dogjaw, I might have to give W760 a try. Seems to be a bit higher in pressure than the IMR 4350 though.

Sturm · April 30, 2005, 05:17 PM

Guy's, I have mentioned it elsewhere, so at the risk of sounding like one of their salesmen, let me tell you about a powder I am very excited about and would be a great way to go for hunting loads in the '06. Ramshot has a BALL powder from Belgium called Hunter. It is at the tailend of 4350 burnrate and just ahead of RL 19. For you guys that like ball powder in the '06, this one will give you 4350 performance and is quite dense @ 950 grams per liter, excellent metering and lower pressure than 760 or some of the 4350's. What really makes it unique is that it is not temperature sensitive and Ramshot claims it will rival extruded powders in this regard. Good velocity for the pressure's generated and is capable of single digit standard deviation. Check it out!

www.ramshot.com

Smokey Joe · April 30, 2005, 07:49 PM

Big Yak--Before you consider further on digital scales, check out another thread in this forum, entitled--surprise--"Digital Scales" in which the benefits/deficiencies of digital scales vs. balance beam scales are analysed enough to satisfy the most ardent seeker after truth.

April 23, 2005, 02:44 PM	#1
Big Yac Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 422	Powder question, 30-06 and .454 Casull I've been relaoding shotguns for the past 10 or 11 years. I now am about to buy a Rockchucker and begin reloading my rifle/pistol ammo. I'm wondering what is a good powder for the 30-06 and .454 Casull. With my shotguns I've always been an Alliant guy (Red Dot and Herco) so I'm thinking of trying Reloader 19(30-06) and 2400(.454). The bullets I'd be using for the 06 are Sierra 180gr HPBT match bullets. My friend reloads them for me now using IMR 4895 and I'm getting really good groups of 1" and a shade under out at 300 yards. I keep hearing that Reloader 19 is too slow for 180gr bullets. Is this true? Also for the .454 Casull would Hodgdon H110 be better than 2400? Id be using 260 and 300gr bullets. Thanks. By the way, I just came across this board yesterday and I must say I already like it. __________________ "...and that's the bottom line, because Big Yac said so."

April 23, 2005, 06:13 PM	#4
armedandsafe Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2005 Location: Moses Lake WA Posts: 1,001	I've been using 4350 with Sierra BTs for the -06 since 1947. Including competition. I like things that work, so haven't changed. Pops __________________ Armed and Safe: Not just a theory If it time to bury them, it is time to dig them up. Remember, "Behind every blade of grass."

April 23, 2005, 10:22 PM	#5
Big Yac Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 422	most definately, I will keep the 4895 here. I'm thinking my inch groups at 300 yards to be somewhat lucky. Young (24 years old) eyes help but I think I got lucky and found a good powder/brass/bullet combo. I cant remember the exact charge of 4895 but I"ll check tomorrow and post it. I found the rifle groups best too with the Sierra 180gr HPBT match bullet and Winchester brass thats been full length resized. I am planning to pick up some RL-19 just to play with it. Also a friend who I shoot with all the time was a sniper in the Marine corp and he showed me a few different ways to do things and hes the one who helped me dial in the gun. Also for the .454 Casull I think I"m just going to go with the H110. __________________ "...and that's the bottom line, because Big Yac said so."

April 23, 2005, 10:39 PM	#6
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	I use H 414 exclusively in the .30-06 nowadays. I have used IMR 4350, 4064 and 4895 in the past with good results. But the 414 is a spherical powder that meters perfectly through powder measures, and shoots very accurately in my rifles. 414 is basically a spherical version of 4350, i.e., they burn at about the same rate. For 454 Casull, .44 Magnum, and .357 Magnum, I've had my best results with H110. Currently, I use H 110 exclusively in these calibres. __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

April 25, 2005, 10:59 AM	#10
Lennyjoe Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2001 Location: Southwest Ohio Posts: 1,150	I use IMR 4350 for 150/165 loads in the -06. __________________ If you see a Military man or a Vet, stop him and say "Thanks".

April 23, 2005, 03:14 PM	#2
mbartel Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Posts: 77	can't help much with the '06, but the .454 and I go back a ways...for practice and general plinking loads, I have always liked Unique with copper plated bullets from Rainier or Berry's. I use the load data from Lyman's Pistol & Revolver Reloading Handbook 2nd or 3rd editions. For full power loads, I like Hodgdon's Lil'Gun, I use the load data from Hodgdon's website or their 2004 updated reloading manual. A lot of folks like H-110 or Win 296, and some swear by AA#9. 2400 will also work, but it won't give full velocity like the ball powders will, also for me it burns dirty and leaves too many unburned powder particles that get under the extractor star in my SRH and bind up the cylinder. Anyway there are a lot of knowledgeble shooters in this forum, and they will shed some more light on your post. Good luck....

April 23, 2005, 03:31 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,528	All I've got is word of mouth, but an experienced long range competitor told me that Re 19 was a very good powder for .30-06. I will likely try it when I have run down the stock of 4064 and Varget a bit. But if I were getting one inch groups at 300 yards, I would be sure to keep some 4895 in the house.

April 24, 2005, 02:52 PM	#7
Chip 2 Junior Member Join Date: April 23, 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 8	As you say your new to reloading rifle and handgun loads, I would suggest you do try some different powders, to see if there is a sweet spot of bullet, powder, primer combination. The primers are another item you should experiment with. They do make a difference in accuracy. But as the other posters stated the load in the 06 with 4895 would be hard to beat. I can't help you with the 454 as I have never owned one. But In my 44 mags I have always leaned on H110. I've tried Bluedot, 2400, and a couple others over the years, but always go back to H110.

April 24, 2005, 04:04 PM	#8
Sturm Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2005 Location: Central Texas Posts: 584	Big Yac, if you are getting 1" groups at 300 yards with 4895, your friends were very good to you and if you didn't have to do much load development to get there, you were very fortunate, but, it happens. I think you'll be hard pressed to exceed this level of accuracy. In the 30-06, the powders that I see recommended the most for accuracy and great all around use are IMR-4064 and H-414. Reloader 15 (which is slower in burn rate than 4895) can sometimes surprise folks as an accuracy powder and Reloader 19 is suitable for hunting loads, but it is a bit on the slow side for 30-06, but that doesn't mean it's carved in stone, especially if velocity is what you need in the hunting load. IMR or H-4350 can also be used for 150, 165 and 180 gr. hunting loads with success. IMR-4350 is hard to beat for hunting loads in a lot of calibers that don't require something even slower, i.e. Magnum rounds, and even then it will work well in a lot of them. I don't load the .454 Casull, but I don't use 2400 in any of the Magnums that I do load. I do have some recommendations, so take the previous statement into consideration. My oppinions are based on powder burn rates and pressure characteristics. Before I used 2400, I would look at the competition. Hodgdon; H-110 and maybe even better, Lil Gun. Winchester; W-296 because that's all there is. H-110 and W-296 are very similar powders that are made for them by Primex, but I think I would keep looking because the .454 is a very high pressure cartridge and something just a bit faster may prove to be better. Lil Gun would get the nod over H-110 or W-296. Accurate #9 could be great and is slightly faster than Lil Gun, but Accurate is pushing the newer 4100 for this use. At almost Identical burn rate to AA#9, is Ramshot Enforcer (Western Powder Co.). I just don't need the power of the .454 and I tend to shoot a lot of rounds when I shoot Magnum Revolvers, so I definitely don't need that level of constant recoil. If I started loading the .454 Tomorrow, undoubtably I would use Ramshot True Blue and some may not be familiar with it. It is faster than AA#9, but slower than AA#7. It is a great powder for slightly less than full throttle velocity while still giving decent load density, but the thing I can't overlook is the standard deviations it achieves with maximum loads, so I'll list the three from their #3 load guide and more data is available at their website: www.ramshot.com These are the Max. loads. with True Blue. from a 7.5" barrel (not listed) The Hornady 240 gr. load is reduced by 10% for a start load. For the 300 gr. XTP and the 300 gr. Nosler Partition, No reduction is recommended. 240 gr. Hornady XTP, Rem 7 1/2 primer, Win. case, OAL 1.765" PC 20.0 grs. velocity 1662 FPS @ 46,460 PSI. Standard Deviation is 5! 300 gr. XTP Rem. 7 1/2 primer, Win. case, OAL 1.760" PC 19.0 grs. velocity 1552 FPS @ 52,030 PSI. SD is 5! 300 gr. Nosler Partition, Fed 205M primer, Win. case, OAL 1.760" PC 19.5 grs. velocity 1557 FPS @ 53,570 PSI. SD is 6! The SAAMI recommended Maximum Average Pressure for the .454 is 65,000 PSI, so you can see that you are getting excellent performance with more than a 10,000 PSI safety margin and getting single digit Standard Deviation in the bargain. This is EXTREME ballistic uniformity for a round this powerful.You will find higher velocity load data with other powders, but it is not likely that SD's will be listed nor will they likely be single digit.

April 25, 2005, 01:03 AM	#9
Big Yac Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 422	Sturm, yes I feel really lucky that I found such a good 30-06 load on the first try. I probably wont be as lucky with the .243, .25-20 or the .454 For the .454 Casull I may just pick up several 1lb bottles of powder and see which works best. H110, True Blue and Lil' Gun are on the list. Thanks everyone. Also, another question. Before I start reloading on my own I figured I'd get a digital scale. The balance type scale is fine for my shotgun reloading but I figured for metallic reloading digital would be the way to go. I"m between two brands right now. RCBS and PACT. Both scales are combination dispencer/scale types. Anyone have any opinions on these particular scales? __________________ "...and that's the bottom line, because Big Yac said so."

April 25, 2005, 06:29 PM	#11
Dogjaw Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2001 Location: S.W. Michigan Posts: 560	I've had poor results with 4350, and use W760 for 06 and 250 Sav. Just couldn't get a good group out of my rifles with it. I guess that's why they make more than one powder. __________________ There are three kinds of men: 1) The ones that learn by reading. 2) The few who learn by observation. 3) The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves..........

April 25, 2005, 09:31 PM	#12
Desert Dog Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 1999 Location: Deep East Texas Posts: 474	Another vote for Lil' Gun in 454 Casull. Another powder for 454 I have used and gotten good results is AA1680. Slightly slower than the W296/H110 twins, I get a better SD. But you just cannot beat Lil' Gun in big bore pistol... __________________ Yes, in fact I do have a 454... in more ways than one. "No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson

April 25, 2005, 11:25 PM	#13
Big Yac Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 422	another question. For the .454 Casull what powder will give me nice big flames with each shot? __________________ "...and that's the bottom line, because Big Yac said so."

April 25, 2005, 11:38 PM	#14
Sturm Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2005 Location: Central Texas Posts: 584	That is one area that 2400 may prove to be tops!

April 26, 2005, 12:03 AM	#15
Lennyjoe Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2001 Location: Southwest Ohio Posts: 1,150	Dogjaw, I might have to give W760 a try. Seems to be a bit higher in pressure than the IMR 4350 though. __________________ If you see a Military man or a Vet, stop him and say "Thanks".

April 30, 2005, 05:17 PM	#16
Sturm Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2005 Location: Central Texas Posts: 584	Guy's, I have mentioned it elsewhere, so at the risk of sounding like one of their salesmen, let me tell you about a powder I am very excited about and would be a great way to go for hunting loads in the '06. Ramshot has a BALL powder from Belgium called Hunter. It is at the tailend of 4350 burnrate and just ahead of RL 19. For you guys that like ball powder in the '06, this one will give you 4350 performance and is quite dense @ 950 grams per liter, excellent metering and lower pressure than 760 or some of the 4350's. What really makes it unique is that it is not temperature sensitive and Ramshot claims it will rival extruded powders in this regard. Good velocity for the pressure's generated and is capable of single digit standard deviation. Check it out! www.ramshot.com

April 30, 2005, 07:49 PM	#17
Smokey Joe Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2001 Location: State of Confusion Posts: 2,106	Digital scales Big Yak--Before you consider further on digital scales, check out another thread in this forum, entitled--surprise--"Digital Scales" in which the benefits/deficiencies of digital scales vs. balance beam scales are analysed enough to satisfy the most ardent seeker after truth. __________________ God Bless America --Smokey Joe

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