At what point do you actually pay for the an NFA item?

TargetTerror · January 17, 2008, 07:09 PM

I know the basic process of obtaining an NFA item, but at which points do you pay the tax stamp and pay for the actual item?

Am I right that the process is:

Find a transferable item for sale
Find a Class III dealer in your state
Have the gun transferred to your Class III dealer
Initiate an extensive background check
Wait 2-3 years
Have local police chief/LEO chief sign off on paperwork
Pick up item from dealer

At what point do you pay the tax stamp? And do you only pay for the item after step 6, or before step 3? Or does the gun not even get transferred until step 6?

shaggy · January 17, 2008, 07:16 PM

If the gun is coming from out of state (and thus going through your FFL/SOT) the seller is going to demand payment for the gun before the gun transfers and ships to your FFL/SOT. In fact while 50/50 sales (50% down, 50% due prior to transfer) used to be common, it has become more common for sellers to require 100% up front.

The first tax (assuming the out of state seller is not a dealer) is also paid prior to the transfer to your dealer. The second tax (to transfer the gun from your dealer to you) is paid when you submit the forms to BATFE to transfer the gun from your dealer to you.

Major edit...(just noticed your timing is way off...)

Process goes...

1. Find a transferable item for sale
2. Find a Class III dealer in your state
3. Pay for the gun, the first transfer tax (if not on a form 3) and have the gun transferred to your Class III dealer
4. Have local police chief/LEO chief sign off on paperwork
5. send paperwork and transfer tax to BATFE to transfer the gun from your dealer to you
6. Wait about 4-6 weeks
7. Pick up item from dealer

VUPDblue · January 17, 2008, 07:25 PM

Well, you have a very general idea on how it works. That's a good start, however, there is a several-part answer to your question. Your steps 1 and 2 have more than one possible solution. If the item you want to buy is in another state, then you do have to get a dealer in your state to do the transfer. If the item you want is already in your state, you have 2 options. Option 1- if the item you want is currently on a Form 4 to an individual (non FFL) then you don't need a dealer. You can do a Form 4 between yourselves. If it is at a dealer, then you obviously need the dealer to do the paperwork. Traditionally, if you are buying out of state, then you will need to pay the person/dealer who has the item before they will transfer it to your dealer. You then go to your dealer and initiate the paperwork. You get the CLEO signoff before you send payment and your forms. You pay the $200 when you send the paperwork in (include the check in the same envelope as your forms). The turnaround time for forms is going on 2-3 months, not years. When your forms come back, you can then pick up your item.

TargetTerror · January 17, 2008, 07:29 PM

Ok, isn't there an extensive background check that you have to undergo (which is where I got the "years" part)? Is there a different process for machine guns v other NFA items?

shaggy · January 17, 2008, 07:39 PM

No, there is a background check...actually two if you buy as an individual.

The first would be done by your local police or CLEO prior to signing the CLEO certification on the form 4. The form 4 you'd fill out has a place on the reverse side for the CLEO to certify that they have no reason to believe your possession of the item in question (machinegun or other NFA weapon) would not be in violation of the law. Many CLEOs will run a NICS check at this point to make sure you're not prohibited from buying a gun so as to not make a false certification.

The second check comes in once you send the forms (and the $200 transfer tax) to BATFE to transfer the weapon from your dealer to you. If something comes up on the background check, BATFE will not approve the form (so the dealer cannot give the item to you) and notify you of the denial.

James K · January 18, 2008, 12:55 PM

Provided there is nothing to the contrary in state law, an individual can transfer an NFA weapon to another individual in the same state without going through a dealer. In other words, the transfer rules are the same as for any other firearm except that any dealer involved has to have the Class 3 SOT.

The major problem is that many CLEO's don't or won't understand that they are merely saying there is no law in their area against the proposed transfer. They consider signing as "approval" to own the NFA item and are either anti-gun in general or are scared that something might come back to haunt them. ("Man goes berserk with machinegun - Police Chief Jones approved purchase.")

Refusal to sign, except where the law does in fact prohibit MG ownership, is usually nothing but an a$$ covering by the CLEO.

Jim

January 17, 2008, 07:09 PM	#1
TargetTerror Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Posts: 424	At what point do you actually pay for the an NFA item? I know the basic process of obtaining an NFA item, but at which points do you pay the tax stamp and pay for the actual item? Am I right that the process is: Find a transferable item for sale Find a Class III dealer in your state Have the gun transferred to your Class III dealer Initiate an extensive background check Wait 2-3 years Have local police chief/LEO chief sign off on paperwork Pick up item from dealer At what point do you pay the tax stamp? And do you only pay for the item after step 6, or before step 3? Or does the gun not even get transferred until step 6? __________________ Head shots are hard, but nut shots are twice as hard.

January 17, 2008, 07:25 PM	#3
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	Well, you have a very general idea on how it works. That's a good start, however, there is a several-part answer to your question. Your steps 1 and 2 have more than one possible solution. If the item you want to buy is in another state, then you do have to get a dealer in your state to do the transfer. If the item you want is already in your state, you have 2 options. Option 1- if the item you want is currently on a Form 4 to an individual (non FFL) then you don't need a dealer. You can do a Form 4 between yourselves. If it is at a dealer, then you obviously need the dealer to do the paperwork. Traditionally, if you are buying out of state, then you will need to pay the person/dealer who has the item before they will transfer it to your dealer. You then go to your dealer and initiate the paperwork. You get the CLEO signoff before you send payment and your forms. You pay the $200 when you send the paperwork in (include the check in the same envelope as your forms). The turnaround time for forms is going on 2-3 months, not years. When your forms come back, you can then pick up your item. __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

January 17, 2008, 07:29 PM	#4
TargetTerror Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Posts: 424	Ok, isn't there an extensive background check that you have to undergo (which is where I got the "years" part)? Is there a different process for machine guns v other NFA items? __________________ Head shots are hard, but nut shots are twice as hard.

January 17, 2008, 07:16 PM	#2
shaggy Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Posts: 1,519	If the gun is coming from out of state (and thus going through your FFL/SOT) the seller is going to demand payment for the gun before the gun transfers and ships to your FFL/SOT. In fact while 50/50 sales (50% down, 50% due prior to transfer) used to be common, it has become more common for sellers to require 100% up front. The first tax (assuming the out of state seller is not a dealer) is also paid prior to the transfer to your dealer. The second tax (to transfer the gun from your dealer to you) is paid when you submit the forms to BATFE to transfer the gun from your dealer to you. Major edit...(just noticed your timing is way off...) Process goes... 1. Find a transferable item for sale 2. Find a Class III dealer in your state 3. Pay for the gun, the first transfer tax (if not on a form 3) and have the gun transferred to your Class III dealer 4. Have local police chief/LEO chief sign off on paperwork 5. send paperwork and transfer tax to BATFE to transfer the gun from your dealer to you 6. Wait about 4-6 weeks 7. Pick up item from dealer

January 17, 2008, 07:39 PM	#5
shaggy Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Posts: 1,519	No, there is a background check...actually two if you buy as an individual. The first would be done by your local police or CLEO prior to signing the CLEO certification on the form 4. The form 4 you'd fill out has a place on the reverse side for the CLEO to certify that they have no reason to believe your possession of the item in question (machinegun or other NFA weapon) would not be in violation of the law. Many CLEOs will run a NICS check at this point to make sure you're not prohibited from buying a gun so as to not make a false certification. The second check comes in once you send the forms (and the $200 transfer tax) to BATFE to transfer the weapon from your dealer to you. If something comes up on the background check, BATFE will not approve the form (so the dealer cannot give the item to you) and notify you of the denial.

January 18, 2008, 12:55 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Provided there is nothing to the contrary in state law, an individual can transfer an NFA weapon to another individual in the same state without going through a dealer. In other words, the transfer rules are the same as for any other firearm except that any dealer involved has to have the Class 3 SOT. The major problem is that many CLEO's don't or won't understand that they are merely saying there is no law in their area against the proposed transfer. They consider signing as "approval" to own the NFA item and are either anti-gun in general or are scared that something might come back to haunt them. ("Man goes berserk with machinegun - Police Chief Jones approved purchase.") Refusal to sign, except where the law does in fact prohibit MG ownership, is usually nothing but an a$$ covering by the CLEO. Jim