Horror story, and fitting question...

JimDandy · December 6, 2013, 10:22 PM

Went to a local two location "big box store" holding a sale, that combined with the Browning Tax Man Rebate promotion made it very attractive to pick up the 725 I'd been eyeing.

Young kid waiting on me packs it back into the wrong box, giving me about $1000 off. I go back inside after I realize why it was so cheap walking back to the car. He tries to pack it into a SECOND wrong box. Finally packs it into third correct box. They charge me for most of the difference in a Return/Exchange transaction so as not to absolutely maul my bank balance.

I asked them to print up even a semi-"fake" receipt for the shotgun and what I paid for it so I could submit it to Browning without having to worry about them following what happened. First try, they add a notation on the receipt that it wasn't a real sale, just an attempt to get the rebate, and it would be returned in seconds. Actually on the receipt I asked them to make up for me to mail into Browning. They didn't quite understand why I thought that might get me in trouble with the FBI over that pesky mail fraud stuff, but they tried again.

Long story short, it terrifies me that they sell firearms, potentially socialize with fertile women in a procreational fashion, and are allowed on the public roadways. All of this means I didn't have any confidence at all in asking them to help me fit the adjustable comb to me. Does anyone have any tips on what "fits" means and how one tests "fit"?

BigD_in_FL · December 6, 2013, 11:25 PM

FIT is more than LOP and adjusting a comb; it is the drop at heel, the drop at comb, the LOP, the cast on or off, the thickness of the comb, the radius of the grip, toe in or out, the pitch of the stock, etc. It also involves your stance when shooting, your height, weight, build, etc.

Rollin Oswald on www.shotgunworld.com has a sticky as well as a book about fit and is a noted stock fitter

darkgael · December 7, 2013, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Does anyone have any tips on what "fits" means and how one tests "fit"?

What Big D wrote is good stuff.
"Fit" basically looks at the shotgun as a prosthetic device....a thing that you are adding to you body so as to accomplish a task (hitting a moving target in the air). A shotgun that "fits", when properly mounted, will shoot where you are looking. It will come up to your shoulder/cheek/eye naturally every time.

Fit is tested by shooting at a white painted steel plate with a black dot in the middle that is 16 yards away from the shooter. The gun is loaded. It is mounted and shot at the target in a single set of motions. The POI is analysed and the gun adjusted. You can do this with your own gun but....
Two things not mentioned yet...
The gun used to do this is called a Try gun....it is adjustable for all of the different measurements that Big D mentioned.
You need a skilled individual to know how to read the target and adjust the POI. A fitter will look at the POI on the target and then adjust the gun. Repaint the target and shoot again. Keep adjusting until the gun shoots into the center every time. Measurements are read off scales on the Try gun and recorded.
Translating this to your own gun is another kettle of fish.
Adjustable combs work. LOP is fairly easily dealt with.
Pete

JimDandy · December 7, 2013, 05:58 AM

All of which is great and all but I'm still left with where I should adjust my adjustable comb.

Dreaming100Straight · December 7, 2013, 06:33 AM

Check this article out.

13 yards is great for shooting at a roll of kraft paper. Its a bit close for safety if you are shooting at a steel plate. If you shoot at a plate, cover it well with heavy cardboard or move back a few yards for safety. 17 yards with a full choke works pretty well. Move the comb in the direction you want to move the Point Of Impact ("POI"). Raise it to raise the PO!, Move it left to move the POI left and etcetera.

This is from the patterning I did Tuesday. All are my lower barrel.

BigD_in_FL · December 7, 2013, 10:21 AM

Quote:

All of which is great and all but I'm still left with where I should adjust my adjustable comb.

At the pattern board. How do you even know you need to adjust anything until you pattern the gun? There are many articles about how to go about patterning your gun. You need to establish your baseline and go from there

JimDandy · December 8, 2013, 10:14 AM

OK. I was hoping there was some sort of dark room point. light, etc thing I could do to get ballpark close. Patterning boards are hard to come by around here.

BigD_in_FL · December 8, 2013, 10:36 AM

Most local trap/skeet clubs should have one. Claytargetsonline.com should show the ones in your area by state.
You can try using a flashlight/laser in the barrel along the wall type of scenario, but that only shows where your initial mount is not where and what your ammo is actually doing. You need to determine what is currently going on before you can start to change things for the better.

Dreaming100Straight · December 8, 2013, 01:59 PM

If are you are near to some open space where shooting is permitted it is pretty easy to set up a temporary patterning board. The one in Neil Winston/s article is too elaborate and is a permanent one.

Here is something you can buy that isn't pricy. I think it may be a PITA in any wind. I would be tempted to cobble something together with PVC pipe from Home Depot or Lowes. Do not glue the cross members together and it is easier to take apart and get in a car. A few small sheet metal screws can be used to hold things together when assembled. Schedule 40 would be best and have two triangular braces. You can even stake the PVC sections to the ground. Cost should run about $15 including a roll of paper.

Just make sure no one is in the background and be safe.

December 6, 2013, 10:22 PM	#1
JimDandy Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2012 Posts: 2,556	Horror story, and fitting question... Went to a local two location "big box store" holding a sale, that combined with the Browning Tax Man Rebate promotion made it very attractive to pick up the 725 I'd been eyeing. Young kid waiting on me packs it back into the wrong box, giving me about $1000 off. I go back inside after I realize why it was so cheap walking back to the car. He tries to pack it into a SECOND wrong box. Finally packs it into third correct box. They charge me for most of the difference in a Return/Exchange transaction so as not to absolutely maul my bank balance. I asked them to print up even a semi-"fake" receipt for the shotgun and what I paid for it so I could submit it to Browning without having to worry about them following what happened. First try, they add a notation on the receipt that it wasn't a real sale, just an attempt to get the rebate, and it would be returned in seconds. Actually on the receipt I asked them to make up for me to mail into Browning. They didn't quite understand why I thought that might get me in trouble with the FBI over that pesky mail fraud stuff, but they tried again. Long story short, it terrifies me that they sell firearms, potentially socialize with fertile women in a procreational fashion, and are allowed on the public roadways. All of this means I didn't have any confidence at all in asking them to help me fit the adjustable comb to me. Does anyone have any tips on what "fits" means and how one tests "fit"?

December 7, 2013, 06:33 AM	#5
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Check this article out. 13 yards is great for shooting at a roll of kraft paper. Its a bit close for safety if you are shooting at a steel plate. If you shoot at a plate, cover it well with heavy cardboard or move back a few yards for safety. 17 yards with a full choke works pretty well. Move the comb in the direction you want to move the Point Of Impact ("POI"). Raise it to raise the PO!, Move it left to move the POI left and etcetera. This is from the patterning I did Tuesday. All are my lower barrel. Last edited by Dreaming100Straight; December 7, 2013 at 06:41 AM.

December 6, 2013, 11:25 PM	#2
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	FIT is more than LOP and adjusting a comb; it is the drop at heel, the drop at comb, the LOP, the cast on or off, the thickness of the comb, the radius of the grip, toe in or out, the pitch of the stock, etc. It also involves your stance when shooting, your height, weight, build, etc. Rollin Oswald on www.shotgunworld.com has a sticky as well as a book about fit and is a noted stock fitter

December 7, 2013, 05:58 AM	#4
JimDandy Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2012 Posts: 2,556	All of which is great and all but I'm still left with where I should adjust my adjustable comb.

December 8, 2013, 10:14 AM	#7
JimDandy Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2012 Posts: 2,556	OK. I was hoping there was some sort of dark room point. light, etc thing I could do to get ballpark close. Patterning boards are hard to come by around here.

December 8, 2013, 10:36 AM	#8
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	Most local trap/skeet clubs should have one. Claytargetsonline.com should show the ones in your area by state. You can try using a flashlight/laser in the barrel along the wall type of scenario, but that only shows where your initial mount is not where and what your ammo is actually doing. You need to determine what is currently going on before you can start to change things for the better.

December 8, 2013, 01:59 PM	#9
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	If are you are near to some open space where shooting is permitted it is pretty easy to set up a temporary patterning board. The one in Neil Winston/s article is too elaborate and is a permanent one. Here is something you can buy that isn't pricy. I think it may be a PITA in any wind. I would be tempted to cobble something together with PVC pipe from Home Depot or Lowes. Do not glue the cross members together and it is easier to take apart and get in a car. A few small sheet metal screws can be used to hold things together when assembled. Schedule 40 would be best and have two triangular braces. You can even stake the PVC sections to the ground. Cost should run about $15 including a roll of paper. Just make sure no one is in the background and be safe.