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View Poll Results: If federal laws allowed CCW on aircraft with a class of instruction would you do it? | |||
No - Guns and planes dont mix | 57 | 26.39% | |
Maybe depending on the hassle involved | 34 | 15.74% | |
Yes but certification would have to be frequent for max safety | 31 | 14.35% | |
Yes but only if certification was good for at least 3-5 years | 94 | 43.52% | |
Voters: 216. You may not vote on this poll |
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July 20, 2011, 01:02 AM | #101 |
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At least you wouldn't have to worry about it getting lifted out of your suitcase and wait for your bag to be inspected.
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July 20, 2011, 03:27 PM | #102 | |
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July 20, 2011, 03:40 PM | #103 |
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To those of you who are against carry on airplanes- how many other places do you feel are too crowded for carry? College campuses? Movie theater, Walmart, bank lobby?
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July 20, 2011, 03:54 PM | #104 |
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My rebuttal to that is how non experienced shooters get tunnel vision. I dont care if you shoot every weekend. Thats not the "experience" I am referring too.
You simply cant learn that in an 8 hour course. |
July 20, 2011, 04:49 PM | #105 | |
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not a chance in hell..
I'd stop flying if any idiot could take an 8-hour class and bring a gun on to a plane.. thank goodness this will never happen, so CCW crazies can keep their crap opinions that any place is ok to carry to themselves..case in point: Quote:
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July 20, 2011, 04:52 PM | #106 |
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The problem is that many people who CCW think they are part of some elite group of do-gooders. They think that all CCWers will be able to make the perfect shot at the most opportune time, save the day, get the girl, blah blah blah...
The truth is I know people who own guns that shouldn't. I definitely don't want them on an airplane with one. Legally, they're no different from a responsible gun owner. That means they are entitled to the same rights as one as far as the law goes. Doesn't mean I trust them. |
July 20, 2011, 05:04 PM | #107 |
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Archie Bunker Gives His Opinion
While I know the liberal producers of the show are trying to make gun people look stupid, this is funny. Archie suggests arming all plane passengers in order to stop skyjackings. Priceless!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLjNJ...e_gdata_player |
July 20, 2011, 05:43 PM | #108 | |
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July 20, 2011, 05:56 PM | #109 |
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Just curious... for those that voted that they are for carrying on airplanes, what sytem would you put in place to weed out the hijackers?
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July 20, 2011, 06:03 PM | #110 | |
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Tell you want next time your around Minny look me up and I will get the kids cap gun out and you can pretend to be a BG and I will fire off a cap and our spouses can time it and then you can do the same and then we can google the police response times for where you live and see whos faster..... The winner buys lunch and the loose buys the brew or whatever your taste in refreshment runs too. Feel how you wish but your cell phone call time reaction from law enforcement will NEVER be faster than a lawful CCW Carrier with any reasonable amount of practice.......
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Molon Labe Last edited by BGutzman; July 20, 2011 at 07:18 PM. Reason: To be more generous |
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July 20, 2011, 06:14 PM | #111 | |
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July 20, 2011, 07:54 PM | #112 | |
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July 20, 2011, 08:24 PM | #113 |
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WayneinFL, based on the typical shooter I see at the range, when I go to a range, I would NOT want them trying to make a critical shot in an airplane packed with people. I would especially not want them to do that if they were firing toward the front end, where the pilots, controls, and avionics are clustered.
I know Federal Air Marshals. I know Federal Flight Deck Officers. I have a rough idea of the training they go through. Trust me when I say it's way more than eight hours. Trust me when I say the FAMs shoot at a whole different level than most shooters, even the ones who compete on a fairly regular basis. (Unless those competitors train to shoot, around non-targets, while people to the sides hurl objects at them.) |
July 20, 2011, 09:03 PM | #114 |
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+1 MLeake.
Not only extensive shooting training but using various scenario's as well as psycological and hostage negotiation training. |
July 20, 2011, 10:28 PM | #115 | |
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Quote:
anyone know what exactly would happen when someone decides a shot fired is necessary, that shot misses everything and goes through the body of the plane or through one of the windows? It can't be like movies where a giant hole opens up and sucks everyone out I assume, but there has to be some kind of pressure loss..anyone got an educated guess? |
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July 20, 2011, 10:28 PM | #116 |
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FBI's Hostage Rescue Team: No Heroes...
The motto of the elite HRT or Hostage Rescue Team is To Save Lives.
The author of the non-fiction book No Heroes is the FBI agent who started the unit. That & Cold Zero are good reads & provide insight into real spec ops/hostage rescue training. |
July 20, 2011, 11:11 PM | #117 |
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MidwestRookie,
MLeake covered that quite well in post #25. |
July 20, 2011, 11:42 PM | #118 |
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MidWestRookie,
A quick summary of the idea: Bullet hole is not that large, and would most likely result in a very gradual depressurization, and most likely the aircraft would be able to maintain a fair amount of pressure. Windows are usually in two plies, and are not prone to disintegrating easily. Assuming a complete failure of both window layers, and loss of a window, the aircraft would depressurize rapidly, but would not suck a human body out, nor cause the airplane to come apart. Since somebody brought up "explosive decompression" in a post since then, I'll go over that in this post. Worst case, what we'd call "explosive decompression" is not fun, but should not be fatal. In such a case, where pressure drops to outside levels in a matter of a second (or several seconds), there may be sinus injuries and ear-drum injuries. It will get cold; mist will form in the air. The aircraft's automated systems should sense the drop in cabin pressure, and drop oxygen masks without any inputs from the flight station. You've all had the flight attendant's briefing on how to use those. Of course, the flight station has the ability to actively drop those masks, by flipping a switch or pulling a lever, depending on the aircraft. And the flight attendants have a tool they can use to open the oxygen mask panels for each row of seats. At the first indication of loss of pressure, the pilots (and flight engineer, if the aircraft has one) will put on quick-donning oxygen masks, with positive pressure, from a separate oxygen system. Such systems are designed to give the flight station crew over two hours (up to 3.5 hours) of oxygen. In other words, the pilots may experience physical discomfort (sinuses, ears, possible gas pains in the digestive tract), but should otherwise be able to function normally, due to the supplemental, positive-pressure oxygen. Assuming the terrain below will allow it, after donning their masks and flipping the switch or pulling the lever to release passenger masks (that should have dropped already, but it's a redundancy thing), the pilots will initiate an emergency descent. This will typically result in a descent rate of 4,500-6,000fpm. From a typical cruise level of FL370 (37,000 ft MSL), the aircraft should be able to get down to 10,000' in five minutes or so, which is well within the endurance of the passenger oxygen system. At that point, oxygen is not necessary. The worst case scenario would involve a transoceanic flight, with explosive decompression past the point of no return. (This is nominally half-way, but winds play a factor. Flying west into the jet stream - which may be 175-200kts - point of no return is past half-way in terms of distance, as there's a headwind going west but a tailwind if the plane turns around.) In such a case, the ability to descend to 10,000' may be iffy, as jet engines consume much more fuel at low altitudes; fuel consumption at 10,000 is over twice the consumption at FL370. The next worst case would be over mountainous terrain. The crew won't descend below 2000' above the highest peak within 25NM. However, they will also be turning toward the nearest suitable field, and getting away from the high terrain as quickly as possible. Going back to the concept of the thread, though, the real threat to passengers' lives would not be decompression, nor damage to control or fuel lines, or even damage to the pilots. The more likely threat would be bullets being fired by guys with 8-hr training certificates in an aluminum tube packed sardine-tight with people. |
July 21, 2011, 12:19 AM | #119 |
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Anti-Gun.
Nevermind.
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July 21, 2011, 12:35 AM | #120 |
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I voted for the third option
...not because I'm crazy,or paranoid,or fancy myself some kind of QUICK-DRAW EXPERT GUN HERO or anything.I carry a concealed weapon for one reason-to extract myself and those I care about from a bad situation. So, if I save someone else's life in the process, so be it. End of discussion.
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July 21, 2011, 06:45 PM | #121 |
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thanks for the lesson MLeake...much appreciated.
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July 21, 2011, 07:03 PM | #122 |
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I'd do it if it were like Hunter Safety Classes ... FREE! (At least here in Alabama!) And it was good for 3-5 years. I don't fly frequently enough for it to be a huge hassle. But the knowledge that people are armed on airplanes would deter hijackings.
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July 21, 2011, 07:14 PM | #123 | |
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July 21, 2011, 08:30 PM | #124 | |
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Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull. all 26 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple. Wish my wife did as well... |
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July 21, 2011, 09:56 PM | #125 |
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That shouldn't be a surprise, airliners aren't in business to provide a service, they want to make a profit. Just like you would if you owned an airline. And honestly, guns on a plane would probably create more problems than it solves, given the extraordinarily low number of hijackings in aviation history.
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aviation , ccw , chl , pistol |
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