|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
May 20, 2010, 05:31 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 6, 2004
Posts: 414
|
Is the 22LR the same diameter as the 223?
The first question is, Is the 22LR the same diameter of the 223? The second question is how good is the round for self defense in or around 15 yards. and the third question which round is best. Low,standard or high velocity rounds. Remember this is for personal defense for the distance of 15 yard to 25 yards. Thanks for the info.
|
May 20, 2010, 05:37 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 17, 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 141
|
1) 22lr is .223, 223(aka 5.56x45, 5.56 NATO) is .224
2) 223 heck yes, 22lr heck no (223 has what? 12x the energy of 22LR)
__________________
“The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.” William Shakespeare |
May 20, 2010, 07:09 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 31, 2008
Location: east of the Big Muddy
Posts: 248
|
"The second question is how good is the round for self defense in or around 15 yards. and the third question which round is best."
A .22 LR a poor self defense cartridge. IMO. At 15 to 25 yards a shotgun is better choice. |
May 20, 2010, 07:11 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 9, 2005
Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills.
Posts: 3,779
|
The normal bore diameter of 22LR is .222". The normal bore diameter of the 223Rem (which I assume your asking about) is .224"
Unless you shoot someone in the head with a 22LR, your just gonna **** them off. They may die later, but they'll still put up one heck of a fight until they do. That is assuming they are hell bent on killing you. |
May 20, 2010, 07:22 PM | #5 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 17, 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 141
|
Quote:
__________________
“The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.” William Shakespeare |
|
May 20, 2010, 07:39 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 395
|
Dude don't use the 22 lr for defense. The .22 pokes holes.. the .223 tears &%$@ up. Go with that.
|
May 20, 2010, 08:06 PM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 12, 2010
Posts: 1,860
|
i agree on the .22lr as a poor defensive round, but if that is all you have then i would say its better than nothing. as far as standard or high velosity, if it was me i would use cci velositor becouse its 40gr. and velocity of 1435fps. aguila interceptor is 40gr. 1470fps. thats probably the best i could throw at a suspect in a home defense situation.
|
May 20, 2010, 08:54 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 21, 2008
Location: new zealand
Posts: 856
|
A 22lr would be rather useless for self defense. A 223 would be much better, but at such a close range you may find the bullet in going to fast and pass through the person without doing much damage.
A shotgun would be my first choice, using buckshot. And no they are not the same diameter, i actually thought about that yesterday and tested them. |
May 20, 2010, 10:06 PM | #9 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 26, 2004
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 13,806
|
Quote:
|
|
May 20, 2010, 10:27 PM | #10 |
Member
Join Date: December 6, 2009
Posts: 26
|
Using a digital caliper, .22LR came to .223, and 5.56 came to .224.
Federal red box for the .22, and some random surplus for the 5.56. |
May 20, 2010, 10:47 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 15, 2010
Posts: 8,236
|
I allways suggest a handgun for self defense.........if a handgun is not an option, shotgun would be second choice. .....If you plan to sleep Full Metal Jacket style, then yes to .223 as a self defense round.
__________________
Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!! |
May 20, 2010, 11:35 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 24, 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 311
|
Last weekend, I shot a groundhog twice with a .22 LR from 15'; didn't stop him. In the past, I sometimes have to hit them 4-5 times to stop. If a .22 won't stop a ~10 lb. woodchuck, don't expect it to stop anything bigger.
The .223 is probably very effective when fired at close range from the full-auto weapons it was designed for, but it's still a .22 in my book. Where does this scenario take place? If the distance is 15-25 yards, you probably should be running for cover and calling the police; taking pot-shots with a .22 is just going to get you killed or arrested. |
May 21, 2010, 12:43 AM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 6, 2004
Posts: 414
|
This info is for my personal knowledge I have both a Mini 14 with a aimpoint scope and an 870 shotgun which would be my first choice for home defense and or my Ruger P90 with night sights.
I was at turners outdoorsmen looking for a gun cleaning kit and the person behind the counter told me to get a kit for a 22 because it was the same diameter of the mini's 223. I do have two 10/22's for marksmanship. Thanks for the info. |
May 21, 2010, 12:45 AM | #14 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: October 21, 2006
Location: Western US
Posts: 1,961
|
The diameter is the .223 round is not impressive. It's 3200fps muzzle velocity is however. Even at 500 yards, a 55gr .223 bullet is still traveling faster than the MV of a standard 36-40gr .22LR.
To equate the .223 and the .22LR is pure ignorance. Nobody with any amount of firearms knowledge of any kind would attempt to do so. Quote:
That said, nothing is a for sure kill when it comes to self defense. The only shot that will kill instantly in any caliber with reliability is a CNS shot. Shot placement is vital. I wouldn't trust a .22LR to do the job for self defense. I would trust a .223 about as much as anything that is hand held. Put the shots in the right spots and it should do the job. Quote:
__________________
https://battlebornreview.com/ Last edited by RockyMtnTactical; May 21, 2010 at 12:55 AM. |
||
May 21, 2010, 02:58 AM | #15 |
Junior member
Join Date: May 14, 2010
Posts: 187
|
Ohhhhhhhh please!
"Defense" -- punch a large hole, deep, and at high velocity. Works for elephants, works for two-legged skunks. 22 LR is like stabbing someone with an ice pick. |
May 21, 2010, 04:46 AM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 9, 2000
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 2,194
|
|
May 21, 2010, 06:39 AM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 2, 2005
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 3,943
|
To answer your followup post...
Yes, you use 22 cal. cleaning equipment to clean the .223. I like a bore snake and a tooth brush over all the rods and wire brushes they want to sell you.
bore snake, tooth brush, roll of toilet paper and a can of spray Breakfree CLP is all you need. |
May 21, 2010, 09:39 AM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 11, 2010
Location: East Texas USA
Posts: 1,805
|
Any Gun is better than no gun when your defending your life from an attacker.
But for Dedicated Home Defense, I would not recomend a .22 Rimfire or a .223 The Rimfire, is not powerfull eneough to stop an attacker consistantly in his tracks. I know because I hunt Racoon with the Cartridge, and often times have to re-shoot them. The .223 is powerfull eneough, but can easily shoot through sheet Rock Walls, and kill a Family Member in the next room. For Home Defense, I would Recomend a Short, Pistol Grip, 12 Guage loaded with Birdshot. |
May 21, 2010, 12:35 PM | #19 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 21, 2006
Location: Western US
Posts: 1,961
|
Quote:
I'm gonna tell you something you probably don't want to hear. Anything that will reliably stop a home intruder and hit vital organs will probably be a threat to someone in the next room if drywall is all that is between them and you. So, aim carefully. That said, how many stories do you know of people hitting innocents when shooting at bad guys? You'd think cops must do it all the time. They don't carry birdshot type ammo.
__________________
https://battlebornreview.com/ |
|
May 21, 2010, 12:37 PM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: Stafford VA
Posts: 969
|
You shoot someone at 15 to 25 yards and your going to have a very hard time saying Self Defense no matter what.
__________________
Solving Virginia's Ground Hog problems 50gr at a time..... |
May 21, 2010, 01:05 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 2004
Location: Haslet,Texas(DFW area)
Posts: 1,506
|
If you had worked around a ER and seen a few brought in shot at inside the house distances with 12 ga birdshot you would have a better picture....now its a whole lot different when they get outside and you pepper them at your back fence....inside the house it will endeed put a face of a fist size hole right through the ribcage, or completely sever a forearm(when you are used to seeing pistol wounds it will impress the heck out of you) .....I've seen it, touched it, and personally tucked the unlucky burgler in the icebox.
I have also seen several that were shot with the same, at backyard distances and they usually live, though fixing them was more than a little painful for them lol. ( I was a County Hospital District Policeman back then) And have retained Crime scene Detective friends that I still talk to weekly on what they have observed in recent shootings/killings(no we don't discuss confidential case info....just observed effects) Its allways educational.
__________________
Lighten up Francis!.....;Actor Warren Oats, in the movie "Stripes" |
May 21, 2010, 01:08 PM | #22 | |
Junior member
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Posts: 9,995
|
myself and many other members started out with a 22lr that was not only a plinker, but our only defensive firearm. Once we got serious about defense, I moved out of a house with 5 guys with almost always one of us home to a house with a 90 year old woman who has trouble getting out of her chair, we got something a little heftier.
IF you are thinking about a 22lr i would guess you aren't too serious about self defense. When you get serious you will leave the 22 to plinking and get something better for SD. Quote:
I want to see a gel test where they empty each gun into a block of ballistic gel. PMR 30 is on my buy list. Last edited by johnwilliamson062; May 21, 2010 at 01:25 PM. |
|
May 21, 2010, 01:26 PM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 2004
Location: Haslet,Texas(DFW area)
Posts: 1,506
|
CPTMurdock....15 to 25 yards is defensible if they have a weapon capable of hurting you at that distance, and the circumstance leaves you little choice but to employ deadly force. even with a knife 21 feet is the absolute minimum safe distance to allow yourself time to react and get a shot off if they lunge at you(heck they teach that in CHL class and Police academy)
the tests that have been done, and introduced by expert witnesses in Court cases have shown the legal profession that 15 to 25 yards isnt that safe in confrontations of any kind, to be considered excessive where a weapon is envolved. It just don't take long to close that distance. If somebody is doing thier darndest to shoot you with a scoped deer rifle at 300yds, and you cap his happy arse with yours...The Grand Jury is going to likely no bill you because shooting him back was the reasonable thing to do. 300 yds is well withen the range of such weapon, and was a deadly threat. it all has to do with the totallity of the circumstance.
__________________
Lighten up Francis!.....;Actor Warren Oats, in the movie "Stripes" |
May 21, 2010, 01:56 PM | #24 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 21, 2006
Location: Western US
Posts: 1,961
|
Quote:
Yes, it could work. Lots of things could work, including a .22LR, a sharp stick or even a baseball bat. Better than nothing. However, birdshot is not an acceptable load for someone really serious about home defense just like a .22LR is not.
__________________
https://battlebornreview.com/ |
|
May 21, 2010, 02:06 PM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 6, 2004
Posts: 414
|
We were trained that the suspect must have three elements.
1.The abitliy 2.The opportunity 3. And expressed intent. Put simply you must be in fear for your live or the life of another. |
|
|