Advice on protection against crocs, please

[rauke]

Not entirely a hunting issue, but...

Received the link below by SMS today, from an associate who lives on a plantation in the same part of that country.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/53601/g...usan-sur-creek

She owns a .22lr semi-auto rifle, a 12-gauge double, and regularly carries a .357 revolver, but she is thinking she might be a little under gunned if any thing like this creature happened upon her.

I'm curious, too---exactly where do you shoot some thing like this when it's coming straight at you in high grass or waist-deep water? Looks as if it would present a very small frontal area in attack mode, and I'm thinking that bullets might not travel straight in because of its very streamlined shape.

So does the lady need an equipment upgrade? How should she deal with a possible attack, seeing as there are likely to be a few more of these creatures lurking around in her area of operation? If the stuff I've been reading up on is correct, these crocs can travel up to a kilometer inland in search of suitable animals to prey upon. Nasty thought when you're out walking the dogs in the evening...

[rickyrick]

you need to walk a dog that runs slower than you........

I probably shouldnt be answering this thread as I have no experience outside of TV
sorry

[highvel]

I don't think hitting with precision in that scenario is going to work, shoot to hit, and shoot often while moving away rapidly!!!!

[bswiv]

Makes me want to fly all my stuff down there and go crock hunting. Looks like a way more dangerious beast than any gator I've ever caught.

[rauke]

Was just looking through your latest thread.

Sounds like you're the man as far as crocs go.

So if you're not actually hunting them, what does it take to defend against them?

You reckon a 12-gauge with slugs would do?

[Buzzcook]

That is one big animal.


imho the default weapon for creatures of monstrous size is a four bore double.




No girl should be without one

[markj]

Well since that is a world record and will be placed in a farm, I doubt if he will be hungry enough to attack a human again.

A 12 ga with slugs will tear almost any animal alive up. or a crocidile dundee knife......

[bswiv]

Take a close look at the first picture. In it you can plainly see stuck only into the skin of the gator's skull a .38 Spl. +P.

The next picture is that same slug pried off the skull.

Now go back and look at the first picture. If you look hard you can see a couple of other holes in the gator just behind the skull.

Just behind the skull is where the bangstick should have hit the first time......because a +P .38 Spl will not crack the skull of a almost 11 foot gator.

And from experence I can tell you that a .357 Mag. will usually not do it either. Our goal is always to place the bangstick strike in such a way that it will hit the base of the spine/skull joint. This will kill them quickly and humainly. Sadly it is not always done the way we'd like the first time.

My point is that the skulls of gators......and I would expect of crocodiles to a ever greater extent as they get larger......are very tough to penetrate. A glancing blow will do nothing unless delivered by a serious round. And it's a far better bet if that round is firing a solid of some sort.....not soft lead.

This is not to say a 12 ga with a slug would not under almost all situations prove very useful......just that maybe a rifle round with a jacketed solid would be better?

[rauke]

That was very enlightening.

I sort of figured they would be reasonably bullet proof, especially from frontal angles.

So now I'm really worried. Would be nice if my friend owned a semi-auto or pump 12, but an over-under? 2 slugs on tap, then what? And that wouldn't be as handy to carry as a .357, either.

Will probably advise her to purchase/borrow an AK and carry it on sling during her jaunts...not elegant, but that weapon seems fairly common over there. That should do the trick...

[chewie146]

Can she legally get ahold of an AK over there? I'd look at dangerous game rounds. I would thing even a hot .45-70 solid would penetrate. Then again, I have no experience with crocs. That's just an insane size. I'd probably move.

[rauke]

Fortunately, they've relaxed the laws over there a bit, and you can get an AK or an AR now under special conditions.

I seriously doubt if any one uses regular big-game calibers in the area, the only ones with .30-06 would probably be the militia, in M14s or Garands. Last time I was there and she needed .357 magnum we had to drive 150 kilometers to get it.

I don't she'll ever move---not with 200+ workers and a square kilometer or so of property (some of it bordering a marsh, unfortunately).

[phil mcwilliam]

A couple of fishing guides that I used when fishing for Barramundi in the Top End of Australia carried revolvers in .357 magnum for defense against crocs. This was on the Mary River in the Northern Territory. The Mary River has supposedly the highest concentration of saltwater crocs in Australia. We spotted 50 plus crocs per day, with plenty over 15 foot in length.
The shotgun your friend has, loaded with slugs , would be even better than the .357 magnum, but for practical reasons a revolver is more suited to carry on frequent jaunts in the tropics.
My father was a professional croc shooter in the early 1950's in New Guinea & .303 was the caliber of choice back then. Pro shooters shot for the brain as the crocs were shot for their skins, under spotlights from canoes. I suppose a brain shot would be the best defense shot , but if you were taken by a big croc when wading in waist deep water I doubt you would even get a shot off. Fact is, most people living in crocodile infested areas don't carry firearms for protection, they just avoid wading in the swamps.

[FrankenMauser]

Gator (and Croc) prevention:
Stay aware.
Stay away.

In case of emergency, run faster than the person next to you.

Crocodiles and alligators have a circulatory system that does not provide much stamina for running. Stay out of the water, and they aren't much of a threat. --There's a reason these animals ambush at the water's edge, rather than even a few feet from the water. On land, they lose their advantage.


You're better off running, than trying to shoot the them.

[rauke]

Sorry for the late reply

Had to do some research before getting back to you.

Looks like running may just work!

The land speed record for a croc appears to be 11 mph; a human in flight can do 15 to 17 mph. Haven't been able to find any endurance parameters, though...

Guess it should be fine if you don't stumble!

[JACK308]

dont run away in a straight line ZIG ZAG alot they cant turn to good - as for the gun a .44 mag with 240 hard cast should put a hurting on it.

[kilimanjaro]

You don't even need a firearm at all ! Just cut yourself a stick, no longer than one foot, and sharpen both ends. Grasp your gator stick firmly near the middle, and insert at least to mid-forearm depth in the gator's mouth. Insert said stick, vertically, and as nearly perpendicular to the general jawlines as you can, and you will be out of danger, as long as you avoid it's tail. Do not try and adjust your stick placement, gators are faster than you think. If your placement is faulty, insert a second stick, with your other, remaining hand, if necessary.

[Rifleman1776]

They move so fast having a gun is mute issue. If they get you they get you.
Best defense is to stay away from waters edge.

[Art Eatman]

Kili, you're a true optimist. And, FWIW, I have seen large gators swap ends in an eyeblink. I really doubt that a person could keep from being hit by the tail.

Running? All well and good if the vegetation permits it. And if there is time to actually turn and begin the run before Mr. Croc clamps on.

If a person must be near the water's edge where large gators or crocs are known to be, that person must be alert and observant--and prepared to shoot at a moment's notice. Preferably with the most potent cartridge with which the user can reliably get hits.

[JACK308]

I seen on tv that if it get you use your thumbs to gauge the EYES!

[rauke]

Once a reasonably-sized croc clamps down on, you've had it. It will simply drag you into the water and drown you, assuming that it doesn't instantly kill you.

If what I've read is correct, a crocodile has the most powerful bite of any animal on the planet, exerting pressure in the neighborhood of 5,000 pounds per square inch. Think land shark. And Art Eatman is right---if the jaws don't get you, the tail will. It'll easily break your back or your legs.

This would suggest that any business at all by the water's edge should be conducted in broad daylight, never after dark. Better to bring an armed associate or two to keep a sharp lookout while you do what it is you have to do. Stay out of the water. And no more moonlight jaunts with the dogs...(sigh).

[Shotgun693]

I'm not Politically Correct. If there's an animal of any kind around that poses a real threat to me then I'm gonna kill it before it ever gets a change to kill me. I'm glad the T-Rex are all extinct.

[Buzzcook]

If there's an animal of any kind around that poses a real threat to me then I'm gonna kill it before it ever gets a change to kill me.

So that explains the falling polar bear population. What deadly animal are you going after next, Portuguese man of war?

[FairWarning]

I wouldn't spend any time in an area with creatures like that. If I did, I'd be thinking .375 H&H.

[Lee Lapin]

No matter what shoulder fired weapon (short of a Carl Gustav) you shoot, you can't hit a fully grown reptile like that one just any old where and expect to stop it. Maybe you will, maybe you won't, but if you fail...

Far as I'm concerned, anything not crew served is undergunned for a dinosaur like that one. And no, in fact I don't have a sense of adventure.

lpl
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRiNMBGb9pY

[customaquatics]

well swamp people use just a 22 lr.