30-30 Remington

Alex Johnson · November 30, 2002, 08:52 PM

This afternoon I attended a gunshow. I wasn't really in the market for anything and for once I managed to walk away without buying something. But one thing I saw at the show today left me puzzled. This last year I started collecting the Remington model 8's and have both the 32 and the 35 remington. This afternoon I saw several of the model 8's in the standard calibers of 25, 30, 32, and 35. What I did not expect to see was one of these rifles marked 30-30 Remington. What was this cartridge? So far I have turned up no information on a cartridge of this type and I'm reasonably certain no 30-30 Winchester would ever cycle in one of these guns. I'm fairly certain this was an original rifle, but I have sure never heard of it. Could the 30-30 Rem markings be a very early designation for the 30 Remington? Any information on this would be appreciated, this one has me stumped.

**Mike Irwin** · November 30, 2002, 11:18 PM

Hum...

That's an interesting one!

I've never heard of the Remington cartridges called anything other than the .30, .32, .25, etc...

I've also never seen any of the old Remington advertisements refer to the cartridge in this manner.

Jim Watson · December 1, 2002, 12:37 AM

Alex,

You are correct, early on the .30 Remington (rimless) was sometimes called .30-30 Remington, even marked on rifles and headstamped on ammo. It refers ONLY to the ballistics, there never was any interchangeability.

Alex Johnson · December 1, 2002, 10:25 AM

Thanks for the information, I can now sleep better at nights knowing I didn't pass up a one of a kind Remington. Gunshows being the way they are in this state I might possibly see this rifle at the next show in which case maybe I'll add it to my collection. Thanks again.

Gewehr98 · December 5, 2002, 01:00 PM

But Jim is correct, that's the early name for the .30 Remington round. It would be a VERY early Model 8 that's marked for .30-30 Remington, it porobably doesn't have the two external magazine springs that later models had. Chambering is the same, though.

BigG · December 5, 2002, 02:37 PM

Does the magazine come off for loading or do you put them in thru the port? Are spare mags available?

My dad has the pump companion to that model 8. It is a Pederson design and made out of solid forgings, no stampings including the mag follower, which is solid steel. The gun is in 32 Rem and is almost immaculate for a gun of its age.

The interesting thing about this gun is that the magazine has a corkscrew path that keeps the bullets from touching the primer of the next ctg, unlike most tube mag guns. So you can use pointy bullets, theoretically, however, I've never seen anything other than RN or flatnose bullets in factory ammo.

Gewehr98 · December 5, 2002, 07:12 PM

The gun is loaded much like an SKS, FN-49, Ljungman, Hakim, and Winchester Model 95. You load the box magazine through the top, inside the receiver. It's fun unloading a magazine full, too, you have to cycle each round manually through the chamber with the bolt carrier's handle.

There are shallow stripper clip detents on my Model 8's receiver, but I've never been able to find stripper clips for the gun or cartridges.

That's a Remington Model 14 (and later 141) pump-action rifle that you're talking about, with the spiral magazine tube. Some versions actually have a cartridge case head mounted in the receiver as an identification of what you're supposed to feed it!

Alex Johnson · December 5, 2002, 10:35 PM

I saw a bag of stripper clips for the Remington this summer at the Cody Wyoming gunshow, but the owner wanted about $15 a pop for them, too much for my use. There neat rifles though. and totally reliable from my experience.

BigG · December 6, 2002, 12:10 AM

Pop's is the Model 14 and yes, it has the 32 Rem cartridge head on the side of the receiver.

You pump aficionados can keep an eye out for a Model 14 1/2 which was chambered for the 44/40 and maybe other Winchester pistol cartridges. Looks just like the Model 14.

The pumps are overengineered six ways from Sunday. It looks like you could rechamber the gun for any caliber in creation without fear of blowing that action, but maybe the heat treating wasn't as good in those days. Sure is a lot of metal in one though.

SunDown · March 26, 2005, 11:33 AM

When my dad passed away one of the rifles he owned was a Remington model 14. I don't plan to sell it but I was curious what is was worth. Are cartridges still available so that I can shoot it for target practice.

I'm no gun expert so I thought it was interesting that the receiver had the top of a cartridge right on it. UMC 32 REM.

**Mike Irwin** · March 27, 2005, 11:00 PM

The .32 Remington is functionally obsolete, meaning that none of the big companies loads it any more.

That said, it was a pretty common caliber, and I still see it offered at gun shows occasionally.

Even better, the .30 Remington, or at least brass, is still readily available, and it's a simple matter for form a .32 Remington case from a .30 Remington case.

Bob Hightower · July 9, 2005, 11:08 AM

I've had just the opposite experience. A few months ago I aquired a couple buckets of misc. brass. While sorting through it I came across a 30-30 Rem. and no one seemed to know anything about it. Thanks to your post I now know what rifle it was chambered for. Just in case you haven't learned, the case is about the same size as a standard 30-30 Win, but it is rimless. If you would like a picture of it please let me know.

Bob Hightower

James K · July 10, 2005, 09:48 PM

There is a fair amount of misunderstanding about those magazine grooves. Just last week, I read another article that says they caused the round to tip downward so the bullet point would not hit the primer of the round ahead of it. That is not really true and shows the designer of the rifle knew more about what caused that problem than the modern writer.

When a high recoiling rifle with a tubular magazine is fired, all the rounds in the magazine try to stay in place as the rifle recoils (see Mr. Newton about this). If the magazine is full, or has only one round, there is no problem. But, if the magazine has, say, three rounds, the rifle recoils, the rounds tend to stay where they are, so they compress the magazine spring. When recoil stops, the recoil spring reasserts itself and slams the cartridges back toward the receiver, where the rearmost one is stopped by the cartridge stop. The next round slams into it, and the potential for firing that round is there.

So the grooves don't actually cause the cartridge nose to drop down. What the grooves do is slow down the cartridge(s) as they come backward after recoil stops.

Jim

November 30, 2002, 08:52 PM	#1
Alex Johnson Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2000 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 812	30-30 Remington This afternoon I attended a gunshow. I wasn't really in the market for anything and for once I managed to walk away without buying something. But one thing I saw at the show today left me puzzled. This last year I started collecting the Remington model 8's and have both the 32 and the 35 remington. This afternoon I saw several of the model 8's in the standard calibers of 25, 30, 32, and 35. What I did not expect to see was one of these rifles marked 30-30 Remington. What was this cartridge? So far I have turned up no information on a cartridge of this type and I'm reasonably certain no 30-30 Winchester would ever cycle in one of these guns. I'm fairly certain this was an original rifle, but I have sure never heard of it. Could the 30-30 Rem markings be a very early designation for the 30 Remington? Any information on this would be appreciated, this one has me stumped. __________________ I thoroughly disapprove of duels. I consider them unwise and I know they are dangerous. Also, sinful. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet retired spot and kill him. - Mark Twain

November 30, 2002, 11:18 PM	#2
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	Hum... That's an interesting one! I've never heard of the Remington cartridges called anything other than the .30, .32, .25, etc... I've also never seen any of the old Remington advertisements refer to the cartridge in this manner. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 1, 2002, 10:25 AM	#4
Alex Johnson Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2000 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 812	Thanks for the information, I can now sleep better at nights knowing I didn't pass up a one of a kind Remington. Gunshows being the way they are in this state I might possibly see this rifle at the next show in which case maybe I'll add it to my collection. Thanks again. __________________ I thoroughly disapprove of duels. I consider them unwise and I know they are dangerous. Also, sinful. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet retired spot and kill him. - Mark Twain

December 5, 2002, 01:00 PM	#5
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	Think I've got a box of the stuff somewhere around here... But Jim is correct, that's the early name for the .30 Remington round. It would be a VERY early Model 8 that's marked for .30-30 Remington, it porobably doesn't have the two external magazine springs that later models had. Chambering is the same, though. __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

December 5, 2002, 02:37 PM	#6
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,334	Does the magazine come off for loading or do you put them in thru the port? Are spare mags available? My dad has the pump companion to that model 8. It is a Pederson design and made out of solid forgings, no stampings including the mag follower, which is solid steel. The gun is in 32 Rem and is almost immaculate for a gun of its age. The interesting thing about this gun is that the magazine has a corkscrew path that keeps the bullets from touching the primer of the next ctg, unlike most tube mag guns. So you can use pointy bullets, theoretically, however, I've never seen anything other than RN or flatnose bullets in factory ammo. __________________ o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC

December 1, 2002, 12:37 AM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Alex, You are correct, early on the .30 Remington (rimless) was sometimes called .30-30 Remington, even marked on rifles and headstamped on ammo. It refers ONLY to the ballistics, there never was any interchangeability.

December 5, 2002, 07:12 PM	#7
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	Mags are detachable, but not for normal loading. The gun is loaded much like an SKS, FN-49, Ljungman, Hakim, and Winchester Model 95. You load the box magazine through the top, inside the receiver. It's fun unloading a magazine full, too, you have to cycle each round manually through the chamber with the bolt carrier's handle. There are shallow stripper clip detents on my Model 8's receiver, but I've never been able to find stripper clips for the gun or cartridges. That's a Remington Model 14 (and later 141) pump-action rifle that you're talking about, with the spiral magazine tube. Some versions actually have a cartridge case head mounted in the receiver as an identification of what you're supposed to feed it! __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

December 5, 2002, 10:35 PM	#8
Alex Johnson Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2000 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 812	I saw a bag of stripper clips for the Remington this summer at the Cody Wyoming gunshow, but the owner wanted about $15 a pop for them, too much for my use. There neat rifles though. and totally reliable from my experience. __________________ I thoroughly disapprove of duels. I consider them unwise and I know they are dangerous. Also, sinful. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet retired spot and kill him. - Mark Twain

December 6, 2002, 12:10 AM	#9
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,334	Pop's is the Model 14 and yes, it has the 32 Rem cartridge head on the side of the receiver. You pump aficionados can keep an eye out for a Model 14 1/2 which was chambered for the 44/40 and maybe other Winchester pistol cartridges. Looks just like the Model 14. The pumps are overengineered six ways from Sunday. It looks like you could rechamber the gun for any caliber in creation without fear of blowing that action, but maybe the heat treating wasn't as good in those days. Sure is a lot of metal in one though. __________________ o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC

March 26, 2005, 11:33 AM	#10
SunDown Junior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Posts: 1	Remington Model 14 When my dad passed away one of the rifles he owned was a Remington model 14. I don't plan to sell it but I was curious what is was worth. Are cartridges still available so that I can shoot it for target practice. I'm no gun expert so I thought it was interesting that the receiver had the top of a cartridge right on it. UMC 32 REM.

March 27, 2005, 11:00 PM	#11
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,389	The .32 Remington is functionally obsolete, meaning that none of the big companies loads it any more. That said, it was a pretty common caliber, and I still see it offered at gun shows occasionally. Even better, the .30 Remington, or at least brass, is still readily available, and it's a simple matter for form a .32 Remington case from a .30 Remington case. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

July 9, 2005, 11:08 AM	#12
Bob Hightower Junior Member Join Date: July 9, 2005 Posts: 1	30-30 Remington I've had just the opposite experience. A few months ago I aquired a couple buckets of misc. brass. While sorting through it I came across a 30-30 Rem. and no one seemed to know anything about it. Thanks to your post I now know what rifle it was chambered for. Just in case you haven't learned, the case is about the same size as a standard 30-30 Win, but it is rimless. If you would like a picture of it please let me know. Bob Hightower

July 10, 2005, 09:48 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There is a fair amount of misunderstanding about those magazine grooves. Just last week, I read another article that says they caused the round to tip downward so the bullet point would not hit the primer of the round ahead of it. That is not really true and shows the designer of the rifle knew more about what caused that problem than the modern writer. When a high recoiling rifle with a tubular magazine is fired, all the rounds in the magazine try to stay in place as the rifle recoils (see Mr. Newton about this). If the magazine is full, or has only one round, there is no problem. But, if the magazine has, say, three rounds, the rifle recoils, the rounds tend to stay where they are, so they compress the magazine spring. When recoil stops, the recoil spring reasserts itself and slams the cartridges back toward the receiver, where the rearmost one is stopped by the cartridge stop. The next round slams into it, and the potential for firing that round is there. So the grooves don't actually cause the cartridge nose to drop down. What the grooves do is slow down the cartridge(s) as they come backward after recoil stops. Jim