22 silencer input needed - Page 2

douglasschuckert · May 15, 2008, 12:18 AM

deleted due to me just being an ass...

Wildalaska · May 15, 2008, 01:08 AM

Well quiet is quiet and based on my ears alone, Zak Smiths 308 can in the quietest I have ever not heard....had the chance to shoot the 308 with it last Sunday and folks were simply amazed...sonic crack and that is it...

Plus you get to deal with a guy who posts here, and will answer all your questions.

Wildwaitingforhis338canandoneforsemiautosAlaska TM

UniversalFrost · May 15, 2008, 08:51 AM

yeah, I am gonna also go take a look at the cans Zak offers before I head on back to AZ. I am probably gonna pick up either a can from him or my local dealer has a Quest II in stock right now.

I will make sure to post a review of the cans Zak has to offer, plus I am probably gonna be in the market for a .30 cal can in the near future so I will be looking at what Zak has to offer in that as well. Now, only if he offered a .338 cal can for my 2 lapua's

.

JOE

VUPDblue · May 15, 2008, 09:11 AM

Not similar, huh?

Zak Smith · May 15, 2008, 10:36 AM

I don't want to get into this pissing content, but VUPDblue, those only "look" the same in that they have a monolithic core that goes in an outer tube. Check out the baffle shape, porting, and gas blow arrangement, they're totally different. A monolithic core is a advantageous for manufacturing efficiency on CNC machines, whereas distinct baffles require more labor. Some would argue that taking a solid piece of bar stock and making your baffle stack out of it in one "go" is an obvious step to anyone "skilled in the art" with a modern CNC machine.

If anyone wants a crash course in suppressor design, read Alan Paulson's book on silencer patents. Or sign up for a free account on http://www.freepatentsonline.com/ and read them for free there, including newer patents. These are instructive because the claims reveal exactly what features and/or combination of features is claimed to be protected.

Anyone in manufacturing today has to be concerned with "patent avoidance", in other words, making sure their design does not infringe on the claims of a valid, defensible patent. (I have several patents from my "day job.")

-z

VUPDblue · May 15, 2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

I don't want to get into this pissing content, but VUPDblue, those only "look" the same in that they have a monolithic core that goes in an outer tube.

That's my point exactly. What I have been trying to get across is that just because 2 or 10 companies utilize a similar design principal, it doesn't mean that any company is stealing a proprietary design from another.

LiquidTension7 · May 16, 2008, 05:15 PM

I really wasn't trying to start a Gemtech bashing session. I stated my opinion of the company, and when asked to back up my opinion I did so. Like I said before, if you like Gemtech that's great. I simply believe that for the price there are better options.

LiquidTension7 · May 16, 2008, 05:25 PM

I would like to hear about your poor CS experience, if you don't mind.

BerettaFox · May 16, 2008, 08:25 PM

get an AAC Pilot... it's the quietest, lightest, and smallest.... the only one cooler was that one that was the pilot, but longer. I forget the name. I'm really happy with my Pilot.

Zak Smith · May 16, 2008, 09:28 PM

Quote:

it's the quietest, lightest, and smallest.

Pretty sure there are .22LR cans shorter than 5.2" and lighter than 3.5 oz.

PTK · May 16, 2008, 09:32 PM

Zak

You have to admit, it's a nice can. Just not the best of the best of the best.

Speaking of which, if you'd sell your cans here in CO direct, I'd buy one. I'm in the Denver area - which dealer would you suggest?

Zak Smith · May 16, 2008, 09:59 PM

Hi,

Thanks for the interest. Since our SOT is based in Wyoming, our suppressors have to go through a class 3 dealer in Colorado for Colorado residents. However, Jensen Arms (Loveland) and Alan Samuel (Dumont) both sell our cans. (Jensen Arms usually has some in stock, and Alan has some 30P's in stock right now too.) You can also bug Oliver at Iron Ridge Arms (Longmont) to get an order going.

If you want a demo first, contact me privately and we can arrange something.

thanks
Zak

PTK · May 16, 2008, 10:02 PM

Alan has some? I already have five or six things going through him, he probably even mentioned you (we talked about CO Multi-Gun for a bit)

I didn't even think to ask about them. D'oh.

Zak Smith · May 16, 2008, 10:06 PM

Alan has some .30 cal, no .22's right now. I think Jensens has some un-accounted-for .22's either right now, or coming in very soon.

-z

freakshow10mm · May 17, 2008, 12:19 AM

From what I've been reading about suppressors is that the monolithic stack isn't new technology, just going through a resurgence.

douglasschuckert · May 17, 2008, 09:10 PM

I have a Pilot. Its a great can, but there are better ones out there. The SWR Warlock come to mind, SRT's Cheyenne XL is another one. AAC's Aviator is just a Pilot with an extra baffle stack in there. AWC also makes one hell of a good can as well.... Like I said I have the Pilot, but if I had it to do over again I would get the Warlock from SWR.

If you're wanting to compare Apples to Apples, you might want to look into GemTech's Outback II (the think sounds almost exactly like the Pilot).

All of your user serviceable cans, the ones that come apart, will not be as quiet as the sealed ones. I dont know why this is, but I've shot LOTS of various .22 suppressors, and every disassemblable can that I've shot (Tac (series), Prodigy, and some others Im forgetting right now) has been louder than their sealed counterparts.

The major myth one must get past is the one saying .22 is so dirty sealed cans will get too dirty to function and you have no way of cleaning them. The real truth is sealed cans are quiet easy to clean. Soak them over night in Paint thinner or give them a 5 day soak in Mineral Spirits, and tap the coupling end on a hard surface... then blow them dry with an air compressor. You're done. You do this about ever 5 to 7,000 rounds and they will last you a life time.

FWIW.

rick983 · May 29, 2008, 04:54 PM

I have a GemTech Outback II that I use on three different 22's and I really like it. Well made.

Broke · May 30, 2008, 02:54 AM

I'll never own another sealed .22 suppressor again.
I made that mistake, once.

My sealed integral was no more quiet than this one that comes apart. Both are stupid quiet.
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-04-20%20043.avi (18MB) (not sealed)
http://www.brokevw.com/picc%20002.avi (4MB) (sealed)
Video is bad to judge a suppressor by, but it gives you the idea. The low res video sounds louder, but it was a different camera. Both guns are equally as nice sounding... the 18MB vid just makes it sound better than the other vid.

Accumulation of carbon and lead build up... (they're huge pics that take a bit to load)
After 400 rounds:
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-04-20%20018.jpg
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-04-20%20040.jpg
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-04-20%20041.jpg
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-04-20%20042.jpg

After 1100 rounds:
expansion chamber-
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20026.jpg
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20031.jpg
barrel-
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20023.jpg
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20028.jpg
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20029.jpg
baffles-
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20036.jpg
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-26%20024.jpg
http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-26%20027.jpg

The less volume the can has, the less space there is for hot gas to cool before being released.
The sealed gun got loud enough I didn't like shooting it, it sounded more like a small firecracker towards the end, with a noticeable pop. It had 5K rounds through it, but I shot it that much in about 3 months.

After reading www.silencerresearch.com and in particular this page http://www.silencerresearch.com/tac_67.htm it was clear to me why my sealed unit was loud, and I bought one that comes apart

Brian

Zak Smith · May 30, 2008, 06:38 AM

I've got over 6000 rounds through my demo model 22S and it looks cleaner than yours at 1100, and it's still as quiet as when "new."

-z

Broke · May 30, 2008, 10:10 AM

I wish mine would go 6K rounds and still be clean... but my luck is usually bad

Brian

Crosshair · May 30, 2008, 04:50 PM

for a 22 rimfire my #1 concern is being able to take it apart for cleaning. I would only consider 22 cans that can be taken apart and go from there. The TAC-67 had a solid track record and the Quest should be better still.

/Still love my TAC-62

GA Limited GM · February 27, 2010, 11:57 AM

It only seems logical to me that some of the differences you guys are seeing in crud build up can be more related to the type of ammo being fired. Maybe we need to also mention in these post which brand of ammo you are burning.

Some powders I think are swept from floors. Just saying.....

jsykes · February 27, 2010, 05:21 PM

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the SWR Spectre at this point. Its rated for full auto and 5.7, can be disassembled and is very quiet. I really like mine. Here is a vid of it on a 10/22. The firing pin dropping on an empty chamber at the end of the vid is almost as loud as the actual firing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IEihyQRpAE

WoofersInc · February 28, 2010, 02:50 PM

I have 2 Outbacks and they have been great. However I have another22 suppressor waiting on paperwork. For this one I went with a SilencerCo Sparrow. It has a unique takedown and is getting very good reports from people who have them.

http://www.silencerco.com/Silencerco...rrow/features/

mchris80 · March 1, 2010, 02:15 PM

I love my AAC Aviator. Works great on my Mark III and S&W M&P 15-22. It is a little longer than the Pilot but was a good bit more quite and is still light.

May 15, 2008, 12:18 AM	#26
douglasschuckert Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2007 Location: Pensacola, Florida Posts: 141	Liquid Tension.... deleted due to me just being an ass... __________________ Write your representative and say no to HR 1022!!! (Yet another $%$(&^-up law)! http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=2668 - HR 1022 Assault Weapons Ban & Law Enforcement Protection Act (2007) http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/409898348 - Online Petition against! DO YOUR PART, WRITE YOUR DAMN REP, and DEMAND VETO! Last edited by douglasschuckert; May 16, 2008 at 03:26 AM.

May 15, 2008, 08:51 AM	#28
UniversalFrost Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,300	yeah, I am gonna also go take a look at the cans Zak offers before I head on back to AZ. I am probably gonna pick up either a can from him or my local dealer has a Quest II in stock right now. I will make sure to post a review of the cans Zak has to offer, plus I am probably gonna be in the market for a .30 cal can in the near future so I will be looking at what Zak has to offer in that as well. Now, only if he offered a .338 cal can for my 2 lapua's . JOE __________________ Lifetime member VFW and NRA "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (when all else fails play dead) -Red Green

May 15, 2008, 09:11 AM	#29
VUPDblue Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 1,981	Not similar, huh? __________________ Silencers have NEVER been illegal !

May 15, 2008, 10:36 AM	#30
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	I don't want to get into this pissing content, but VUPDblue, those only "look" the same in that they have a monolithic core that goes in an outer tube. Check out the baffle shape, porting, and gas blow arrangement, they're totally different. A monolithic core is a advantageous for manufacturing efficiency on CNC machines, whereas distinct baffles require more labor. Some would argue that taking a solid piece of bar stock and making your baffle stack out of it in one "go" is an obvious step to anyone "skilled in the art" with a modern CNC machine. If anyone wants a crash course in suppressor design, read Alan Paulson's book on silencer patents. Or sign up for a free account on http://www.freepatentsonline.com/ and read them for free there, including newer patents. These are instructive because the claims reveal exactly what features and/or combination of features is claimed to be protected. Anyone in manufacturing today has to be concerned with "patent avoidance", in other words, making sure their design does not infringe on the claims of a valid, defensible patent. (I have several patents from my "day job.") -z __________________ Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN *My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.*

May 16, 2008, 05:15 PM	#32
LiquidTension7 Member Join Date: December 4, 2002 Location: SC Posts: 54	I really wasn't trying to start a Gemtech bashing session. I stated my opinion of the company, and when asked to back up my opinion I did so. Like I said before, if you like Gemtech that's great. I simply believe that for the price there are better options. __________________ Questions are more true than answers; this is the beginning of wisdom.

May 15, 2008, 01:08 AM	#27
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Well quiet is quiet and based on my ears alone, Zak Smiths 308 can in the quietest I have ever not heard....had the chance to shoot the 308 with it last Sunday and folks were simply amazed...sonic crack and that is it... Plus you get to deal with a guy who posts here, and will answer all your questions. Wildwaitingforhis338canandoneforsemiautosAlaska TM

May 16, 2008, 05:25 PM	#33
LiquidTension7 Member Join Date: December 4, 2002 Location: SC Posts: 54	I would like to hear about your poor CS experience, if you don't mind. __________________ Questions are more true than answers; this is the beginning of wisdom.

May 16, 2008, 08:25 PM	#34
BerettaFox Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2008 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 144	get an AAC Pilot... it's the quietest, lightest, and smallest.... the only one cooler was that one that was the pilot, but longer. I forget the name. I'm really happy with my Pilot.

May 16, 2008, 09:32 PM	#36
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	Zak You have to admit, it's a nice can. Just not the best of the best of the best. Speaking of which, if you'd sell your cans here in CO direct, I'd buy one. I'm in the Denver area - which dealer would you suggest?

May 16, 2008, 09:59 PM	#37
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	Hi, Thanks for the interest. Since our SOT is based in Wyoming, our suppressors have to go through a class 3 dealer in Colorado for Colorado residents. However, Jensen Arms (Loveland) and Alan Samuel (Dumont) both sell our cans. (Jensen Arms usually has some in stock, and Alan has some 30P's in stock right now too.) You can also bug Oliver at Iron Ridge Arms (Longmont) to get an order going. If you want a demo first, contact me privately and we can arrange something. thanks Zak __________________ Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN *My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.*

May 16, 2008, 10:02 PM	#38
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	Alan has some? I already have five or six things going through him, he probably even mentioned you (we talked about CO Multi-Gun for a bit) I didn't even think to ask about them. D'oh.

May 16, 2008, 10:06 PM	#39
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	Alan has some .30 cal, no .22's right now. I think Jensens has some un-accounted-for .22's either right now, or coming in very soon. -z __________________ Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN *My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.*

May 17, 2008, 12:19 AM	#40
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	From what I've been reading about suppressors is that the monolithic stack isn't new technology, just going through a resurgence.

May 17, 2008, 09:10 PM	#41
douglasschuckert Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2007 Location: Pensacola, Florida Posts: 141	I have a Pilot. Its a great can, but there are better ones out there. The SWR Warlock come to mind, SRT's Cheyenne XL is another one. AAC's Aviator is just a Pilot with an extra baffle stack in there. AWC also makes one hell of a good can as well.... Like I said I have the Pilot, but if I had it to do over again I would get the Warlock from SWR. If you're wanting to compare Apples to Apples, you might want to look into GemTech's Outback II (the think sounds almost exactly like the Pilot). All of your user serviceable cans, the ones that come apart, will not be as quiet as the sealed ones. I dont know why this is, but I've shot LOTS of various .22 suppressors, and every disassemblable can that I've shot (Tac (series), Prodigy, and some others Im forgetting right now) has been louder than their sealed counterparts. The major myth one must get past is the one saying .22 is so dirty sealed cans will get too dirty to function and you have no way of cleaning them. The real truth is sealed cans are quiet easy to clean. Soak them over night in Paint thinner or give them a 5 day soak in Mineral Spirits, and tap the coupling end on a hard surface... then blow them dry with an air compressor. You're done. You do this about ever 5 to 7,000 rounds and they will last you a life time. FWIW. __________________ Write your representative and say no to HR 1022!!! (Yet another $%$(&^-up law)! http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=2668 - HR 1022 Assault Weapons Ban & Law Enforcement Protection Act (2007) http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/409898348 - Online Petition against! DO YOUR PART, WRITE YOUR DAMN REP, and DEMAND VETO!

May 29, 2008, 04:54 PM	#42
rick983 Member Join Date: May 24, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 47	GemTech Outback II I have a GemTech Outback II that I use on three different 22's and I really like it. Well made.

May 30, 2008, 02:54 AM	#43
Broke Junior Member Join Date: June 25, 2007 Posts: 10	I'll never own another sealed .22 suppressor again. I made that mistake, once. My sealed integral was no more quiet than this one that comes apart. Both are stupid quiet. http://www.brokevw.com/2008-04-20%20043.avi (18MB) (not sealed) http://www.brokevw.com/picc%20002.avi (4MB) (sealed) Video is bad to judge a suppressor by, but it gives you the idea. The low res video sounds louder, but it was a different camera. Both guns are equally as nice sounding... the 18MB vid just makes it sound better than the other vid. Accumulation of carbon and lead build up... (they're huge pics that take a bit to load) After 400 rounds: http://www.brokevw.com/2008-04-20%20018.jpg http://www.brokevw.com/2008-04-20%20040.jpg http://www.brokevw.com/2008-04-20%20041.jpg http://www.brokevw.com/2008-04-20%20042.jpg After 1100 rounds: expansion chamber- http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20026.jpg http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20031.jpg barrel- http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20023.jpg http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20028.jpg http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20029.jpg baffles- http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-24%20036.jpg http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-26%20024.jpg http://www.brokevw.com/2008-05-26%20027.jpg The less volume the can has, the less space there is for hot gas to cool before being released. The sealed gun got loud enough I didn't like shooting it, it sounded more like a small firecracker towards the end, with a noticeable pop. It had 5K rounds through it, but I shot it that much in about 3 months. After reading www.silencerresearch.com and in particular this page http://www.silencerresearch.com/tac_67.htm it was clear to me why my sealed unit was loud, and I bought one that comes apart Brian

May 30, 2008, 06:38 AM	#44
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	I've got over 6000 rounds through my demo model 22S and it looks cleaner than yours at 1100, and it's still as quiet as when "new." -z __________________ Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN *My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.*

May 30, 2008, 10:10 AM	#45
Broke Junior Member Join Date: June 25, 2007 Posts: 10	I wish mine would go 6K rounds and still be clean... but my luck is usually bad Brian

May 30, 2008, 04:50 PM	#46
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	for a 22 rimfire my #1 concern is being able to take it apart for cleaning. I would only consider 22 cans that can be taken apart and go from there. The TAC-67 had a solid track record and the Quest should be better still. /Still love my TAC-62 __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

February 27, 2010, 11:57 AM	#47
GA Limited GM Member Join Date: March 27, 2008 Location: Gods Country Posts: 73	It only seems logical to me that some of the differences you guys are seeing in crud build up can be more related to the type of ammo being fired. Maybe we need to also mention in these post which brand of ammo you are burning. Some powders I think are swept from floors. Just saying.....

February 27, 2010, 05:21 PM	#48
jsykes Member Join Date: July 16, 2008 Posts: 61	I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the SWR Spectre at this point. Its rated for full auto and 5.7, can be disassembled and is very quiet. I really like mine. Here is a vid of it on a 10/22. The firing pin dropping on an empty chamber at the end of the vid is almost as loud as the actual firing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IEihyQRpAE

February 28, 2010, 02:50 PM	#49
WoofersInc Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 224	I have 2 Outbacks and they have been great. However I have another22 suppressor waiting on paperwork. For this one I went with a SilencerCo Sparrow. It has a unique takedown and is getting very good reports from people who have them. http://www.silencerco.com/Silencerco...rrow/features/

March 1, 2010, 02:15 PM	#50
mchris80 Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Smyrna, GA Posts: 41	I love my AAC Aviator. Works great on my Mark III and S&W M&P 15-22. It is a little longer than the Pilot but was a good bit more quite and is still light.