Suppressor Recommendation

[CodeSection]

I am looking at various suppressors for my Tavor. There are many manufactures and some recent companies are supposedly making suppressors specifically for the Tavor in order to control back pressure, POI shift, etc (OSS Suppressor Systems). I know on the bullpupforum there are postings. However, they mostly deal with OSS.

I spoke with Surefire's technical support regarding their SOCOM556 Mini and SOCOM556 RC. He gave various specs and the like. Also, he said to be careful of companies making claims that cannot be supported since there are too many variables involved.

His best suggestion was to go to a gun show where they are participating and other suppressor manufactures are and try them out at the range at the gun show. Seems logical.

So, does anyone have thoughts on which suppressor manufacture to look into and consider? Does anyone know if there is a gun show in Arizona coming up where they will be showcasing suppressors and actually allowing the public to shoot them to try them out?

Thanks for the help!

[Willie Lowman]

Member Theohazard is the person to ask about suppressors.

I for one have never seen one of the OSS suppressors in real life. I know that SureFire makes good cans but their price kept me from buying one. I use an Advanced Armament rifle suppressor and I am pretty happy with it.

Of course I shoot a SCAR not a Tavor so I don't know what kind of issues (if any) there could be with suppressing a bullpup. Excessive gas from the ejection port I would imagine...

You may ask the mods to move this up to the NFA section. It will probably get more attention from the silencer savvy members there.

[CodeSection]

I appreciate the suggestions and advice! Thank you!

[Theohazard]

I have no personal experience with suppressed Tavors, but I've had a few customers tell me of some of the issues they've had. First, the threads are a little longer than the normal AR threads, so sometimes a spacer has to be used to make the muzzle device fit properly. Also, the gas system isn't adjustable, so some people have had issues with high-blowback cans. And gas leaks out of the plastic ejection port cover, so some people have experienced bad gas-to-the face issues.

The gas-to-the-face issue can be fixed pretty easily by sealing up the off-side ejection port cover, and getting a spacer for the threads isn't too difficult, but the blowback issue means you might need to use a low-blowback silencer for proper functioning. I have no personal experience with the OSS can, but a buddy of mine shot one and said it has less gas-to-the-face than even when shooting unsuppressed, so it sounds like it has zero blowback issues. But I'm always hesitant to go with a radical design like that until it's been thoroughly vetted, and the OSS cans are just too new for that.

If I were you, I'd avoid buying a silencer specifically for the Tavor and instead I'd go with a Surefire SOCOM RC. The Surefire does produce back-pressure, but it has less back-pressure than most other 5.56 cans on the market and it's a proven design that will last your whole lifetime unless you shoot a LOT (and if you can afford the ammo needed to shoot out a Surefire SOCOM, you can afford a new one). Your Tavor will almost certainly run fine with a SOCOM, but if it doesn't you still have one of the best 5.56 cans on the market that will work great on countless other guns, whereas if you buy a can like the OSS you have an unproven design that may not hold up anywhere near as well as a traditional design.

If you can afford to take a chance on an unproven design like the OSS, then go for it, but if this is the only 5.56 silencer you plan to buy in the near future, go with the Surefire.

[Sharkbite]

Ive gotten pretty heavy into suppressors lately AND im thinking about picking up a Tavor.

I will most likely run my SDN-6 on it at first. If i decide to buy a dedicated 556 can, the Sure-fire is at the top of a very short list.

I looked at the OSS cans at SHOT and they looked good, but as Theo said it an untested and new design. With the cost of a can + tax stamp + a long wait for approval, im not going to be the test case.

I'll play it safe and get a can PROVEN to work and last.

[Theohazard]

Sharkbite reminded me of another point: If you run a 7.62 can on a 5.56 rifle it will have less gas blow-back than a similar 5.56 can.

The 7.62 SOCOM Mini is the same size as the 5.56 SOCOM RC, but it's just bored out to 7.62. It will have even less back-pressure than the 5.56 can at the expense of being a little louder. But it will be more versatile considering you can use it on a lot more calibers.

Sharkbite: Don't forget to let us know how your Tavor runs suppressed once you get one!

[CodeSection]

Thanks Theohazard and Sharkbite! With all the various companies out there and all my reading, it gets confusing. Thank you for bring back to the issue of a "proven" product. I guess it really doesn't matter about the cost, if it is not proven in field over a length of time. You both have grounded me.

So, it makes sense to buy a 7.62 can that I could be used on another rifle if I buy one in the future AND use on my 5.56 Tavor to help reduce blow back.

So putting together a short list:

Surefire SOCOM762-MINI MSRP $1,399
AAC 762-SDN-6™ MSRP $1,050
YHM YHM-4300 MSRP $789
Thunder Beast 30CB5 MSRP $845
SilencerCo Saker 762 MSRP $1300

As a newbie, I have no idea of the quality of the manufacturers and of the components they use. I cannot distinguish hype from actual. How does one sift through the "marketing" of suppressors to arrive at a fair price as compared with the quality of the product?

There is such a large range in pricing and one would believe it has to do with quality parts.....I'm not so sure....

Help!

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by CodeSection

Help!

These are the primary factors I consider when looking at centerfire rifle silencers:

1) Durability. Rifle calibers produce lots of heat and pressure that wears out the silencer's internals, especially if you use it on short barrels and/or with lots of rapid fire. The most durable rifle silencers are sealed (they can't be disassembled) and are made with inconel baffles (or, in SilencerCo's case, stellite, which is even more durable than inconel). Lower-cost silencers use stainless steel, but they wear out a lot faster. And some use titanium to save weight, but those will wear out more quickly just like stainless steel will. Titanium is fine for a dedicated 300 Blackout silencer because that caliber wears the silencer out less than 5.56 or 7.62, especially if you're shooting lots of subsonic loads. And stainless silencers are usually less expensive, so people go with them to save money. But if you want your silencer to last as long as possible and hold up to rapid fire and use on shorter barrels with full-power 5.56 and 7.62 loads, then you want a silencer made with inconel or stellite.

2) Length. Generally, the shorter the silencer is, the louder it will be. The most efficient way to increase a silencer's sound reduction is to increase its length (and therefore the number of baffles). The mini silencers like the AAC Mini-4 or the Surefire SOCOM 5.56 Mini are a lot louder than their longer full-size versions. But of course the longer versions add a noticable amount of length and weight where it's noticed the most: out on the end of the barrel.

3) The mount. For semi-auto rifles, most people use quick-attach silencers that attach to a proprietary muzzle device. This allows the rifle to still have a muzzle attachment when the silencer is removed, and it also prevents the silencer from coming loose under rapid fire. But it also tends to increase the bullet's point-of-impact shift when the silencer is mounted, which is why many precision bolt-gun shooters use direct-thread silencers. Quick-attach mounts aren't all the same; some are rock-solid and some still have wiggle even when locked. This wiggle doesn't always mean anything in terms of accuracy, but sometimes it does.

4) Customer service. There's a large initial investment and it's unlikely you'll ever be able to sell your silencer, so you want a company that will stand behind their product in case something goes wrong. It's also nice to be able to find mounts for any future rifles you might buy, so company longevity is a factor also.

[Theohazard]

Here's a breakdown of the cans you mentioned:

Surefire SOCOM762-MINI: Surefire makes some of the best and most durable rifle cans on the market. Their mount is rock-solid and doesn't wiggle at all. They use a full inconel baffle stack, and they design their silencers to have less point-of-impact shift and less gas blowback. But, as a result, they aren't quite as quiet as some other cans (though not by much). Keep in mind that this is the Mini version of the SOCOM, and therefore it's a few inches shorter than most full-sized 7.62 cans, so it will be noticeably louder because of that.

AAC 762-SDN-6: This one of the most popular 7.62 cans on the market. It uses a full inconel baffle stack, but it's designed for maximum quietness instead of less gas blowback. Though because it's a 7.62 can, shooting it on a 5.56 will give you less blowback than any traditional 5.56 can will. It's longer than a normal 5.56 can, but not as long as some of the full-sized 7.62 cans like the SilencerCo Specwar or the full-sized SOCOM. But its still very quiet on 5.56 or 7.62. It's also excellent on 300 Blackout, subs or supers. I own one, and I think it's a perfect balance between size and quietness. The only real downside is that it doesn't mount 100% securely to the AAC 51T mounts; there's often a little bit of rotational wiggle. This wiggle doesn't seem to affect anything; it won't back off the mount and it still has a consistent POI shift, but some people like their mounts to be rock-solid.

YHM YHM-4300: I'm not as familiar will YHM's products (I've never worked at a shop that carried them), but YHM silencers aren't considered as high-end as ones from companies like Surefire, AAC, and SilencerCo. And from reading their website, it appears that this can doesn't have a full inconel baffle stack, which means it won't be as durable.

Thunder Beast 30CB5: Thunder Beast is known for their direct-thread cans used on precision bolt guns, but their quick-attach cans don't seem to stand out as much. I don't have any personal experience with this specific can, but from their website it appears to be a compact titanium can that's mostly intended for use on subsonic rifle calibers like 300 Blackout. If you use it on a full-power rifle round like 5.56 or 7.62, you'll be disappointed in its suppression compared to a can like the Saker, the SDN-6, or another full-size 7.62 can. Also, being made of titanium means it will wear out a lot faster than a can with inconel baffles.

SilencerCo Saker 762: This is SilencerCo's answer to the SDN-6. It's the same size and weight with the same approximate noise reduction level. But SilencerCo uses stellite instead of inconel in the baffle construction, and that makes it even stronger (as far as I know, SilencerCo is the only company using stellite so far). But this doesn't mean a whole lot in terms of most people's real-world use; both materials are very strong and both will last a long, long time. The Saker also has a unique mounting system they call a MAAD mount: You can remove the rear end of the can and change out the mounting system. So instead of just the SilencerCo mounts, you can also switch your Saker to mount on the AAC 51T mounts, the YHM Y-mounts, or a direct-thread mount. This gives you a lot more versatility in mounting options. And the funny thing is that the Saker doesn't wiggle at all when you mount it to a AAC 51T muzzle device, so it looks like SilencerCo uses AAC's mount better than AAC does.

[Theohazard]

Since this is your first rifle can, I agree that it makes sense to go with a 7.62 can to start. That's what I did; I knew I'd only be able to afford one rifle can for the foreseeable future, so I wanted one can that would work on any centerfire rifle I shoot.

I think the best all-around size is a medium-sized 7.62 can like the Saker or SDN-6. Because of their size, these cans offer the best balance of length, weight, and quietness in my opinion. They're bigger and longer than a 5.56 can or the mini-sized 7.62 cans, but not as long as the full-sized 7.62 cans like the Specwar or the full-sized SOCOM. This means they offer good suppression but they're not ridiculously long when you mount them on a 16" 5.56 rifle.

I say go with the Saker. I love my SDN-6, but the Saker is a little bit stronger and has a better and more versatile mounting system. And as a bonus, you can even switch out the endcap on the Saker, so you can put the 5.56 endcap on your 7.62 can when you're shooting 5.56, and that will make it a little quieter (SilencerCo claims it will be even quieter than the 5.56 Saker).

Also, SilencerCo has the best customer service of any silencer company in my experience. I have an Octane 9 pistol can, so I've dealt with them as both a dealer and a customer. Heck, they even recently sent me a laser-engraved dog tag with my name and my silencer info on it, which is a nice touch.

EDIT: I realize it looks like I've been all over the map in my suggestions: First I suggested the 5.56 SOCOM RC, then I mentioned the 7.62 SOCOM MINI, and now I'm suggesting the 7.62 Saker. I'll explain: For a silencer that will be used primarily on a Tavor, the 5.56 SOCOM RC is probably the best choice. And for a Tavor silencer that has even less blowback and is more versatile on other calibers, the 7.62 SOCOM MINI is probably best. After all, the Tavor is short and compact and so a compact can like those two looks and feels the best on that host.

But a can like the 7.62 Saker is probably the best all-around rifle can in my opinion, and now that we're discussing rifle cans in general instead of ones for the Tavor specifically, I think it's the best choice for you.

[CodeSection]

Wow! Thank you Theohazard for spending a lot of time to educate and explain the differences! I know you had to put in a really large amount of time writing these posts. I truly appreciate it!

So, if I am understanding correctly, you believe the best choices to be:

For Tavor specific, the Surefire SOCOM 7.62 Mini, weight 17 oz, 6.2 inches length; and

For rifles in general, the Silencerco 7.62 Saker, weight 20.7 oz, 7.5 inches length. Uses stellite baffle construction which is superior material by 30% which may mean nothing since they both will last just as long.

It appears, the Saker will be about $179 cheaper. With the Saker being 1.3 inches longer, would it be correct to assume it would be quiieter and would have less back pressure than the SOCOM?

If the above statements are true, then it would appear the Saker is better value with the only downside of being slightly longer of 1.3 inches.

Am I arriving at the correct conclusion?

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by CodeSection

Wow! Thank you Theohazard for spending a lot of time to educate and explain the differences! I know you had to put in a really large amount of time writing these posts. I truly appreciate it!

No problem, my friend! Today was one of my days off where I watch our 11-month-old, and I've got plenty of down time in between feedings, naps and keeping her from trying to kill herself.

Originally Posted by CodeSection

For Tavor specific, the Surefire SOCOM 7.62 Mini, weight 17 oz, 6.2 inches length

For Tavor specific, I'd probably go with the 5.56 SOCOM RC. It's the same size as the SOCOM 7.62 Mini, and it will be quieter. And I highly doubt that it will have too much back-pressure to allow the Tavor to cycle properly. But, to be safe (and allow more versatility on other calibers), you might want the 7.62 Mini instead. And both of these cans are compact and will fit great with the Tavor.

Originally Posted by CodeSection

With the Saker being 1.3 inches longer, would it be correct to assume it would be quiieter and would have less back pressure than the SOCOM?

It will definitely be quieter, but the 7.62 Mini will probably have less back-pressure than the 7.62 Saker. Surefire designs their cans to have less back-pressure at the expense of being a little bit louder, and shorter cans generally produce less back-pressure. Though both of those cans have less back-pressure with 5.56 than a normal 5.56 can, and both will work fine on your Tavor.

Originally Posted by CodeSection

If the above statements are true, then it would appear the Saker is better value with the only downside of being slightly longer of 1.3 inches.

Am I arriving at the correct conclusion?

Yep, the Saker will be a little bit longer and heavier, but will be a better can overall.

[CodeSection]

I wish you a lifetime of fun and loving memories with your 11 month old! Starting a family may have challenges, but it is so rewarding! I wish you and your family the best!

I appreciate your help. I am going to buy the Saker 7.62 along with the 5.56 front cap to make it quieter if I need to. I'm thinking if I replace the front cap to a 5.56, it might be closer to the Specwar 7.62 9" in dbs rating. I guess the drawback in replacing the front cap may mean there would be a slight increase in back pressure.

So if it makes sense to buy a 5.56 endcap, which is better:
- 5.56 Front Cap Flash Hider
- 5.56 Front Cap Flat
- 5.56 Front Cap Muzzle Brake (I'm guessing it will not necessarily reduce the noise as other cap choices)
- 5.56 Front Cap Standoff (not sure if this provides anything other than fear and and acts like a "DNA" catcher).

What are your thoughts?

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by CodeSection

I wish you a lifetime of fun and loving memories with your 11 month old! Starting a family may have challenges, but it is so rewarding! I wish you and your family the best!

Thanks, I really appreciate it! And it sounds like you're speaking from experience.

Originally Posted by CodeSection

So if it makes sense to buy a 5.56 endcap, which is better:
- 5.56 Front Cap Flash Hider
- 5.56 Front Cap Flat
- 5.56 Front Cap Muzzle Brake (I'm guessing it will not necessarily reduce the noise as other cap choices)
- 5.56 Front Cap Standoff (not sure if this provides anything other than fear and and acts like a "DNA" catcher).

What are your thoughts?

- 5.56 Front Cap Flash Hider: Most rifle suppressors have a small muzzle flash for the first shot, but none after that (at least not until the can cools down a little). If you're worried about that first-shot-flash, then get the flash hider endcap, otherwise don't bother.

- 5.56 Front Cap Flat: This is the one I'd get because it looks like the normal endcaps I'm used to.

- 5.56 Front Cap Muzzle Brake: I didn't know they offered an endcap muzzle brake. I've seen a few other cans with muzzle brake endcaps (Barret's QDL or SilencerCo's Harvester come to mind), but I've never shot one. I'm not sure how much difference this will actually make considering the gas escaping the end of the can is slowed down significantly. But if it does actually reduce recoil a noticeable amount, then that means it should also increase the noise going sideways and back towards the shooter.

- 5.56 Front Cap Standoff: Unless you need to breach doors or cut rebar, then the only purpose this one serves is looking cool.

Me, I'd go with the regular flat endcap just so it looks like a normal silencer. But I can think of one good reason against getting the flat one: If you're worried about accidentally leaving the 5.56 endcap on when you're shooting a larger caliber. In that case, having your 5.56 endcap look significantly different than your 7.62 endcap can be an advantage.

[CodeSection]

Again, thank you for the advice!

While I do not currently own anything using a 7.62, your suggestion of making the 5.56 front end look different makes perfect sense. I didn't think of that.

When given the choice, I rather have a process that focuses on safety. Changing out the front end with a different bore size that is different looking will help visually to confirm which caliber will be used on the suppressor.

With that being said, I will be completing my purchase today.

I hope some day I can return the kindness you have given me! I hope you have a safe and fun weekend!

[Theohazard]

Awesome! And don't worry, you've already returned the kindness: Every new silencer owner makes silencers more common and more accepted, and that can only be a good thing. The more we owners can show the general public that they're useful tools that save hearing and reduce noise polution, the better.