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February 26, 2009, 04:42 PM | #76 | |
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If you want to measure our likelihood of success in stemming the flow of guns even in to this country, post any new AWB, we need only examine our success rate in stemming the flow of illegals and millions of tons of drugs. If the demand is high enough, the drugs, illegal immigrants, and guns will flow into and out of Mexico, and the US, in wholesale fashion. |
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February 26, 2009, 04:43 PM | #77 | |
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Dealers can't know every purchaser that comes in. Just can't happen. There are dozens and dozens of gun stores in the Phoenix area, and were I the straw purchasing type, I could buy one gun a week to give to my drug buddies at a profit and not hit the same store again for a year. Even if I have only a dozen stores I run my straw purchases thru, I won't end up at the same store again for 3 months. How many repeat customers do you get every 3 months, WA? I have a hard time going 3 months without buying a gun to add to my collection. The straw purchase elimination point is squarely in the hands of NICS and the ATF, seems to me. They should be able to see the same buyer hitting multiple or the same stores on a high volume basis, follow the 4473 trail at each of the stores, and notice that "Lucita Delacruz" is buying half a dozen Glock 19's a month. Then the ATF can work with FBI or DEA and see if little Lucita has known associates with bad histories. Tail her for a bit and act if necessary. Believe me... those of us down here who do sell guns from time to time in FTF transfers are not selling to illegals or drug runners. I've been asked for a CCW Permit to qualify for a purchase before, and I've also asked for them myself when selling. God forbid the ATF does actual police work against bad guys rather than just stomping around at gun shows or hauling every byte of data possible back to their desks so they can datamine NICS for some poor sucker who just owns a lot of guns... AZRedhawkpelosisaidenforcementfirstsoletsgetonthat44 |
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February 26, 2009, 05:02 PM | #78 | ||||
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WildiguesswedoAlaska ™ |
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February 26, 2009, 05:19 PM | #79 |
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I don't have a problem with the ATF checking dealers.
I have a serious problem with a new AWB. |
February 26, 2009, 05:37 PM | #80 | |
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On a side note, reading the footnotes of that article is like some kind of Orwellian nightmare. Can you imagine someone comes to you and asks you to make an illegal machinegun, you call the ATF to report them and YOU are the one who gets arrested and charged in court? |
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February 26, 2009, 05:46 PM | #81 | |
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Doing all of that has nothing to do with an AWB other than the fact that what the AG says he wants to stop with the AWB is already ilegal under current law so there should be no need for the AWB. |
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February 26, 2009, 05:57 PM | #82 |
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Of course we need to find anyone who breaks laws - FFLs or pimps or credit frauders. But the fact some other country sucks and can't take care of its business shouldn't be our reason to do so, or change our level of motivation. The Netherlands aren't going to ramp up how fast they spend their tax dollars vetting their "coffee shops" because it creates headaches for our customs agents when kids are coming home. Nor should Canada step up their traffic enforcement because some under-21 US citizens might get drunk up there and then create a problem when they head home.
The thread's kind of spun off way into left field. Whether enforcing the existing laws more enthusiastically is the right thing to do or not (and as always: why can't we just enforce the "don't hurt people" law and forget about guns?) - the point here is that this is a pretty sorry excuse to reinstate an unconstitutional ban that failed to bear fruit the first time. I guess these folks just want to be remembered as the "second chance" administration, willing to try anything that history shows won't work. |
February 26, 2009, 06:04 PM | #83 |
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It's wrong headed thinking by Holder, no matter his agenda, which I believe is to make the ownership of guns so onerous as to reduce the number of people who are willing to submit to the pain to own one. That's the real target with him, no pun intended.
Also, what's to stop the drug cartels from switching to shotguns with 00 buck shot. That's a dangerous gun in a shootout. Yes, you can only hold 5 or 6 rounds in most of them, but each round fires multiple lead balls. With 3 inch or 3.5 inch magums, you get pretty decent velocity as well. As people have stated however, the drug runners have lots of cash and can easily buy full auto weapons, RPG's, grenades and other weapons. A US assault weapons ban would be like mowing a 640 acre sod farm with a walk behind reel mower with respect to addressing the crime problem in Mexico.
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"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams. |
February 26, 2009, 06:09 PM | #84 | |
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Don't give Holder any ideas about my beloved scattergunwoobies though......
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February 26, 2009, 06:10 PM | #85 | |
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Quote:
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February 26, 2009, 06:36 PM | #86 |
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Is anyone really surprised? This is the "Hope" and "Change" I expected with this new administration. Looks to me like the Dems will be able to shove whatever they want to down our throats whenever they feel like it since they just pushed through the spendulous with very little relative problem.
High rhetoric and blustering is just about all the Republicans have left. And we all know what that's worth. The few Republicans that do have a spine are too few in number to avoid being steamrolled. This, along with other things, is why I am no longer a Republican. Not to be alarmist but you better get em while you still can IMO. Sad but expected.
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Texas, the only State to Have Ever Kicked Another Country's Butt Last edited by ElectricHellfire; February 26, 2009 at 07:03 PM. |
February 26, 2009, 06:45 PM | #87 |
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jakeswensonmt,
Thanks for setting me straight - I didn't notice the "Most Popular" box. I still can't find it as a search but maybe that's because it hasn't been archived because it is so popular. Anyway, so much for my conspiracy theory. I stand corrected. |
February 26, 2009, 06:49 PM | #88 | |
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From the ABC story:
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Automatic weapons would be unaffected by the AWB as they already have their own set of regulations. The ABC page has a "Comment and Contribute" section so make sure you all comment and contribute -- like it would do any good anyway -- but we can try..
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
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February 26, 2009, 06:57 PM | #89 |
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Does anyone besides me wonder if Obama and Holder and all the other Dems might have bought stock in in the gun and ammunition companies and are now reaping the rewards for scaring the [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] out of everyone?
Didn't the terrorist sell all thier stock before 9/11 and then buy it back a couple of days later when it was cheap? Am I the only one to smell a Rat hear? |
February 26, 2009, 06:59 PM | #90 | |
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Mexico, schmexico....this was coming and everyone knew it.
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February 26, 2009, 07:15 PM | #91 |
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Holder's already been spanked for it by Pelosi (she's just probably mad that he tipped his hand this early) and not getting any support from Obama nor Biden.
Stay vigilant, but there's no need to panic yet.
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February 26, 2009, 07:16 PM | #92 |
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OK, this looks to have been a false alarm, the Attorney General talking out his butt without consulting either the President or Congress.
Rumor is that the President is NOT pleased because it's taking attention away from the agenda he wants to pursue, and as we saw, Nancy Pelosi seems to be rather miffed that she wasn't consulted at all. Very good discussion, and I want to thank everyone for keeping it so pointed and on topic for most of the thread, but at this point it is starting to drift quite a bit, so I'm going to shut this down. And remember, Eternal Vigilance is the Price of Liberty. |
February 26, 2009, 07:43 PM | #93 |
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Allow me to add, that this does not preclude a future thread in the event something similar occurs.
Thank you everyone. |
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