ATF visiting the home...

Bad_T · August 25, 2010, 06:19 PM

I'm planning on getting a Type 7 FFL w/SOT. The business address is going to be my place of residence. I go to college full time and want to make sales online during some of my spare time. I plan to sell guns and accessories (not in inventory) and possibly sell a few that I custom assemble.

My question is, If I set certain business hours, then the ATF could come in at anytime during those hours (and they don't have to call first). What if I had my business hours over the weekend, but one weekend I decide to go and visit family and it just so happens an ATF inspector shows up while I'm not there.

What would happen? What should I do? Any suggestions? I don't really want to set in stone my business hours, because to be honest I wont be working on a strict schedule. I might get home from school, do homework and then spend an hour online with my website and paperwork. I might spend a whole saturday with it or I may be busy on the Saturday at Family events or studying for an exam. My hours working with my weapons sales would be sporadic.

Would the ATF make an exeption for a busy college student with a girlfriend and kids? Would they give me the priveledge of ATF inspections by appointment?

rtpzwms · August 25, 2010, 06:30 PM

Do you think the ATF cares? College kid, busy, girlfriend w/kids... welcome to adulthood. Just make it clear that your business is custom to each of your customers and hours are by appointment only.

Keep all of your books in order and up to date. Good Luck!

n7qvu · August 25, 2010, 06:42 PM

I'm a 07/02 FFL working out of my home.
I had questions about my hours also and just decided to go with MWF 1-4pm to fill out the application. I had my interview back in April. She was very nice, but it lasted for 2 1/2 hours.
As we know, most businesses close sometimes for vacation. I asked her about that and she suggested I call my local ATF and let them know I was going to be on vacation. I laughed.
When I'm not at home during my business hours, I'll post a closed sign on my door...
PM - If you have other related questions.

B.N.Real · August 25, 2010, 08:41 PM

ATF inspections by appointment.

Good luck with that.

I would'nt even ask for that as they would think "What is this guy trying to hide by trying to tell us when we can see him."

Part of any inspection process is that it is immediate and you are unprepared for it.

As others have said,keep your records accurate,I would also keep a double copy exactly like my own to give to them if they asked for it ( or at least have a working copy machine on premises so you can make them all the copies they ask for-this is not hard today as most computer printers can be bought like that now).

That way,your only copies don't disappear if they decided to take them.

And don't get creative in your gun sales.

Obviously obey all laws for what your license says you can sell,where you are making the sale and who you are making the sale too.

If a sale does'nt feel comfortable to you,don't try to justify it to get the deal done.

Simply do not make that sale.

And you have rights in any ATF action against you but trying to exercise those rights as a search is going on through your records and premises by the ATF by physically or verbally abusing the agents is simply downright stupid.

You need to be calm and reasonably cooperative.

Simply reply to what you are asked and nothing more.

The ATF agents are not your preacher and they don't need to hear your life story.

And should you feel they are asking too much or being to nosey,you need to have a lawyers phone number you can call.

Lastly,before you do any of these things,if you really want the scoop on dealing with the ATF and the gun laws in your area,you need to find a lawyer experienced in that type of law and schedule a talk with him that you will probably need to pay him for.

People you don't know on the internet can inform you but ultimately you are respondsible for what happens to you.

Bad_T · August 25, 2010, 08:55 PM

B.N.Real. I don't think you're getting the point of my question. I don't care about the inspections themselves. I do everything by the book and I'm deemed a neat freak when it comes to organization. I know my rights if they show up to look at my records and stock. I just worry about them showing up to my home address while I'm out during my proposed business hours.

n7qvu has answered my question thoroughly and any input on other ATF topics is not really needed here. I would never take the word of a stranger as truth, I just use it as advise to help me get a good idea. I'm calling the ATF when I get some free time to discuss the issue with them.

Bad_T · August 25, 2010, 09:00 PM

A closed sign for a quick outing it is... A call to the ATF if I disappear to Hawaii for a few weeks.

David Hineline · August 26, 2010, 01:59 AM

If any of your FFL07 armchair quarterbacks had a clue what you are talking about you would know that right on the license application form is a check box to indicate no retail hours, you are after all a manufacturing facility, not open for public.

ATF IOI will schedule routine visits with you.

If something serious enough happens that a search warrant is issued by a judge then hours, padlocks and you being on vacation will not effect the outcome.

Zak Smith · August 26, 2010, 02:24 AM

In addition to what David said, your FFL application won't go anywhere unless you have full business licensing and zoning approval at the site.

Edward429451 · August 26, 2010, 11:33 AM

I used to be an ffl an unless they totally revamped the system, most of you are wrong. The ATF did come to my house while I was working my day job, and they were unannounced. My wife simply said hey, doesnt he have to be here since he is the licensee? and turned him away until I got home from work.

Even if you are 7 days a week, it is reasonable to assume that you may have to leave at some time and if you are not there then they will have to come again, simple. AN unannounced inspection is an inspection and not a raid or fishing expedition so it's not like they can kick in your door if you are gone. Your Wife does not have to let them in if you are not there.

August 25, 2010, 06:19 PM	#1
Bad_T Junior Member Join Date: August 23, 2010 Location: Tampa Area Posts: 3	ATF visiting the home... I'm planning on getting a Type 7 FFL w/SOT. The business address is going to be my place of residence. I go to college full time and want to make sales online during some of my spare time. I plan to sell guns and accessories (not in inventory) and possibly sell a few that I custom assemble. My question is, If I set certain business hours, then the ATF could come in at anytime during those hours (and they don't have to call first). What if I had my business hours over the weekend, but one weekend I decide to go and visit family and it just so happens an ATF inspector shows up while I'm not there. What would happen? What should I do? Any suggestions? I don't really want to set in stone my business hours, because to be honest I wont be working on a strict schedule. I might get home from school, do homework and then spend an hour online with my website and paperwork. I might spend a whole saturday with it or I may be busy on the Saturday at Family events or studying for an exam. My hours working with my weapons sales would be sporadic. Would the ATF make an exeption for a busy college student with a girlfriend and kids? Would they give me the priveledge of ATF inspections by appointment?

August 25, 2010, 06:42 PM	#3
n7qvu Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2009 Location: Overgaard, AZ USA Posts: 153	I'm a 07/02 FFL working out of my home. I had questions about my hours also and just decided to go with MWF 1-4pm to fill out the application. I had my interview back in April. She was very nice, but it lasted for 2 1/2 hours. As we know, most businesses close sometimes for vacation. I asked her about that and she suggested I call my local ATF and let them know I was going to be on vacation. I laughed. When I'm not at home during my business hours, I'll post a closed sign on my door... PM - If you have other related questions. __________________ Jerry W. NRA Instructor: Pistol, Home Safety, Personal Protection, RSO, Reloading. NRA Life Member, NRA-ILA Sustaining Member, AZ CCW training org. & instructor, AZ HE instructor. JWsGUNs.com FFL-07, NFA SOT-C2.

August 26, 2010, 02:24 AM	#8
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	In addition to what David said, your FFL application won't go anywhere unless you have full business licensing and zoning approval at the site. __________________ Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN *My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.*

August 25, 2010, 06:30 PM	#2
rtpzwms Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2010 Location: OTS Posts: 1,035	Do you think the ATF cares? College kid, busy, girlfriend w/kids... welcome to adulthood. Just make it clear that your business is custom to each of your customers and hours are by appointment only. Keep all of your books in order and up to date. Good Luck!

August 25, 2010, 08:41 PM	#4
B.N.Real Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Posts: 4,092	ATF inspections by appointment. Good luck with that. I would'nt even ask for that as they would think "What is this guy trying to hide by trying to tell us when we can see him." Part of any inspection process is that it is immediate and you are unprepared for it. As others have said,keep your records accurate,I would also keep a double copy exactly like my own to give to them if they asked for it ( or at least have a working copy machine on premises so you can make them all the copies they ask for-this is not hard today as most computer printers can be bought like that now). That way,your only copies don't disappear if they decided to take them. And don't get creative in your gun sales. Obviously obey all laws for what your license says you can sell,where you are making the sale and who you are making the sale too. If a sale does'nt feel comfortable to you,don't try to justify it to get the deal done. Simply do not make that sale. And you have rights in any ATF action against you but trying to exercise those rights as a search is going on through your records and premises by the ATF by physically or verbally abusing the agents is simply downright stupid. You need to be calm and reasonably cooperative. Simply reply to what you are asked and nothing more. The ATF agents are not your preacher and they don't need to hear your life story. And should you feel they are asking too much or being to nosey,you need to have a lawyers phone number you can call. Lastly,before you do any of these things,if you really want the scoop on dealing with the ATF and the gun laws in your area,you need to find a lawyer experienced in that type of law and schedule a talk with him that you will probably need to pay him for. People you don't know on the internet can inform you but ultimately you are respondsible for what happens to you.

August 25, 2010, 08:55 PM	#5
Bad_T Junior Member Join Date: August 23, 2010 Location: Tampa Area Posts: 3	B.N.Real. I don't think you're getting the point of my question. I don't care about the inspections themselves. I do everything by the book and I'm deemed a neat freak when it comes to organization. I know my rights if they show up to look at my records and stock. I just worry about them showing up to my home address while I'm out during my proposed business hours. n7qvu has answered my question thoroughly and any input on other ATF topics is not really needed here. I would never take the word of a stranger as truth, I just use it as advise to help me get a good idea. I'm calling the ATF when I get some free time to discuss the issue with them.

August 25, 2010, 09:00 PM	#6
Bad_T Junior Member Join Date: August 23, 2010 Location: Tampa Area Posts: 3	A closed sign for a quick outing it is... A call to the ATF if I disappear to Hawaii for a few weeks.

August 26, 2010, 01:59 AM	#7
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	If any of your FFL07 armchair quarterbacks had a clue what you are talking about you would know that right on the license application form is a check box to indicate no retail hours, you are after all a manufacturing facility, not open for public. ATF IOI will schedule routine visits with you. If something serious enough happens that a search warrant is issued by a judge then hours, padlocks and you being on vacation will not effect the outcome.

August 26, 2010, 11:33 AM	#9
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	I used to be an ffl an unless they totally revamped the system, most of you are wrong. The ATF did come to my house while I was working my day job, and they were unannounced. My wife simply said hey, doesnt he have to be here since he is the licensee? and turned him away until I got home from work. Even if you are 7 days a week, it is reasonable to assume that you may have to leave at some time and if you are not there then they will have to come again, simple. AN unannounced inspection is an inspection and not a raid or fishing expedition so it's not like they can kick in your door if you are gone. Your Wife does not have to let them in if you are not there.