The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 13, 2012, 11:15 PM   #1
azsixshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2007
Location: Pinckney, MI
Posts: 657
HB5225 Passes in MI!!

Requirement to beg cops for a permission slip to buy a handgun...GONE!
Tyrannical handgun registration...GONE!

I worked hard to help get this one passed! Thanks a million to the NRA and all members who helped with this. Thanks to the 74 yea voters in the Michigan House and thanks to God for everything!

Supposedly the cops have 6 months to destroy the registration records. We need to be sure that gets done and also keep getting friends and family signed up in the NRA. Next, we need CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY in Michigan!!

OoooooooRAH!
__________________
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." --Saul Tigh
http://sargesrollcall.blogspot.com/2...s-no-more.html
azsixshooter is offline  
Old June 13, 2012, 11:22 PM   #2
Al Norris
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,660
Congratulations are in order!!
Al Norris is offline  
Old June 14, 2012, 06:26 AM   #3
noelf2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2008
Location: Stuart, VA
Posts: 2,473
That is great news!
__________________
Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.
noelf2 is offline  
Old June 14, 2012, 06:48 AM   #4
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,374
But this will just mean blood in the streets!

Bus loads of slaughtered nuns!

Cats cohabitating with dogs!

It's end times, I tell you!

UGH. I hate it when my inner gun banner comes out...

Congratulations, it's a great feeling, isn't it?

We recently made big headway in Virginia by getting rid of the "one gun a month" law that was instituted during the Wilder administration.

You know, in 1990-1994 when I was working for NRA and gun control seemed to be on the rise, I NEVER would have imagined that the tables would turn so thoroughly on both the state and national levels.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old June 14, 2012, 07:28 AM   #5
BGutzman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2009
Location: Frozen Tundra
Posts: 2,414
Oh my goodness Mike you have me rolling.... lol
__________________
Molon Labe
BGutzman is offline  
Old June 14, 2012, 07:51 AM   #6
Willie Sutton
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2012
Posts: 1,066
A hearty "Bravo Zulu" to all who assisted this.

I'd second the above notes. Twenty years ago the steamroller was running towards us all... now it seems that we are finally pushing it back into every corner. What a great thing.


Willie

.
Willie Sutton is offline  
Old June 14, 2012, 08:31 AM   #7
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 8,819
Congratulations!
__________________
I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.
Spats McGee is offline  
Old June 14, 2012, 09:35 AM   #8
Technosavant
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO area
Posts: 4,040
Congratulations... I remember when we finally got rid of that stupid permission slip law in MO.

The downside is that one's handgun purchases tend to rise sharply when the speed bumps are all gone. The busloads of nuns are probably safe, but your wallets are in grave danger.
Technosavant is offline  
Old June 14, 2012, 11:09 AM   #9
bikerbill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2007
Location: Lago Vista TX
Posts: 2,425
A round of applause!!
__________________
"The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." Albert Camus
bikerbill is offline  
Old June 14, 2012, 12:16 PM   #10
Patriot86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,293
Great job Michigan!
Send some people over here to Illinois , we need a hand getting concealed carry passed!
Patriot86 is offline  
Old June 14, 2012, 12:29 PM   #11
firespec35
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 24, 2006
Posts: 143
Is this just the house or is the senate version passed too? When is it going in front of the governor?
__________________
Never Forget 9/11/01

S&W 669
firespec35 is offline  
Old June 14, 2012, 11:41 PM   #12
jgcoastie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Location: Kodiak, Alaska
Posts: 2,118
Looks like HB5225 has passed only the House at this point. Cross your fingers and call your Senators...

www.legislature.mi.gov
__________________
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.
jgcoastie is offline  
Old June 15, 2012, 12:09 AM   #13
JoshM75
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 28, 2000
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 231
Congrats - I also wonder if there are any State officials quietly pushing to end this meaningless paper chase and redirect resources to something more useful to the citizenry?
JoshM75 is offline  
Old June 15, 2012, 10:11 PM   #14
azsixshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2007
Location: Pinckney, MI
Posts: 657
Sorry for the pre-mature celebration. I was under the impression it was locked in already. However, I believe it's a republican-controlled senate and that there isn't any anticipated resistance from the Governor. We'll see though, I'll keep my fingers crossed and keep calling and emailing my reps and encouraging everyone else to do so as well!

On a side note, I know a guy who was convicted of a felony 20 years ago. He had it expunged or something and got some state waiver that allowed him to get a CPL and buy handguns. Now he said he'll lose that permission since the system is going to federal requirements and they won't honor his agreement with the state or something.

On one hand I agree with him that it's better to give power to the states, but I think for most law-abiding citizens this is a big win. I'll be interested to see how this plays out for him. It seems odd that any law like this with the spirit of supporting gun rights would actually have the opposite effect for some.
__________________
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." --Saul Tigh
http://sargesrollcall.blogspot.com/2...s-no-more.html
azsixshooter is offline  
Old June 15, 2012, 10:38 PM   #15
jgcoastie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Location: Kodiak, Alaska
Posts: 2,118
Well, there's a simple solution to make sure you don't lose your firearms rights because of a felony...


Wait for it...



Here it comes...



Don't do illegal things.



I know, weird concept for people in our society these days...
__________________
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.
jgcoastie is offline  
Old June 16, 2012, 07:25 AM   #16
Tom Servo
Staff
 
Join Date: September 27, 2008
Location: Foothills of the Appalachians
Posts: 13,057
Quote:
I know, weird concept for people in our society these days.
I wouldn't say that. You'd be surprised what gets charged as a felony these days.
__________________
Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change.
--Randall Munroe
Tom Servo is offline  
Old June 16, 2012, 01:59 PM   #17
azsixshooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2007
Location: Pinckney, MI
Posts: 657
Not trying to start an argument about whether or not felons should be able to own guns, just pointing out what one guy's concerns were. There may be others on this site who could conceivably be in the same situation.

An another note, does anyone following this happen to know what the timeframe might be like before it becomes effective and stores start using the instant criminal background check as opposed to requiring a permission slip from the Michigan Statist Police?
__________________
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." --Saul Tigh
http://sargesrollcall.blogspot.com/2...s-no-more.html
azsixshooter is offline  
Old June 16, 2012, 03:57 PM   #18
armoredman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,295
I hope it passes the Senate and gets signed into law so you can rid yourselves of onerous and useless restrictions.
armoredman is offline  
Old June 17, 2012, 11:32 AM   #19
jgcoastie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Location: Kodiak, Alaska
Posts: 2,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
I wouldn't say that. You'd be surprised what gets charged as a felony these days.
No, I wouldn't. I know how ridiculous some things are in our legal system. However, no matter what you or I think of any particular law, until it is rescinded or replaced, it is still the law. Don't break it and you won't get charged. Don't get charged and you can't be convicted.

No matter what or how anyone tries to spin it, that is the truth.
__________________
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.
jgcoastie is offline  
Old June 17, 2012, 11:41 AM   #20
jgcoastie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Location: Kodiak, Alaska
Posts: 2,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by azsixshooter
On a side note, I know a guy who was convicted of a felony 20 years ago. He had it expunged or something and got some state waiver that allowed him to get a CPL and buy handguns. Now he said he'll lose that permission since the system is going to federal requirements and they won't honor his agreement with the state or something.
I believe your acquaintance is mistaken.

Regardless of what the laws are in any given state, federal requirements ("prohibited person" and such) is unchanged. All federal firearms regulations are constant and equally applied to all states.

Regardless of what agreement your friend had with the state, in order to buy a gun from a dealer, he had to pass the NICS check. If he can pass the NICS check and buy guns before HB5225 becomes law, he'll be able to buy them after it becomes law.

The repeal of the handgun registration has zero bearing on your friend's circumstance, unless there is something in the bill that rescinds all agreements with felons who's RKBA has been restored.
__________________
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.
jgcoastie is offline  
Old June 17, 2012, 11:41 AM   #21
sonick808
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 19, 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 396
even still, you'd be surprised how easily you can get caught up in a felony without intending to do ANYTHING even remotely against the law. We have the highest per capita amount of people incarcerated in the entire world. We are 5% of the world's population, and 24% of the jailed world population. Disparate indeed.

It's all too easy to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and get dinged with a felony. No shortage of these stories.
sonick808 is offline  
Old June 17, 2012, 11:58 AM   #22
jgcoastie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 2009
Location: Kodiak, Alaska
Posts: 2,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonick808
It's all too easy to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and get dinged with a felony.
I would say that constitutes an excuse...

I would challenge you to prove your theory. I find it hard to believe that multiple completely innocent people have been wrongfully convicted of felonies, having committed no crime themselves, only having been in the "wrong place at the wrong time".

No offense, but that sounds like hogwash to me.
__________________
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.
jgcoastie is offline  
Old June 17, 2012, 01:55 PM   #23
American Made
Member
 
Join Date: September 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 92
"I would challenge you to prove your theory. I find it hard to believe that multiple completely innocent people have been wrongfully convicted of felonies, having committed no crime themselves, only having been in the "wrong place at the wrong time".
---------------------------------------
I normally agree with you....but, sometimes people find themselves in hot water for things we take for granted. Whether it be family issues ( e,g .. family member that is on drugs and leaves stolen property in your garage, having a bad divorce and spouse makes untrue statements that equal loss of firearm rights, etc )

A misfire at shooting range:
US vs Olofson
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335832

Furthermore, just step foot in California with some evil looking rifle and you will see how easy they hand out those felony charges

Last edited by American Made; June 17, 2012 at 02:23 PM.
American Made is offline  
Old June 17, 2012, 02:30 PM   #24
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,374
What are we up to... couple hundred people nationally who have exonerated of serious offenses due to DNA evidence conclusively proving that they did not commit the crime for which they were convicted?
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old June 17, 2012, 02:56 PM   #25
langenc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2007
Location: Montmorency Co, MI
Posts: 1,551
For Coastie and Tom-not exactly "hogwash"--from just below--

Massachusetts (the seat of the American Revolution!) is so unfriendly to any sort of self defense that it's also illegal to carry pepper spray without a permit. I used to visit a Jeeper friend in MA periodically to go junkyard hopping. I was expecting to be buying parts, so I was carrying cash, and I didn't have a MA CCW permit so I knew I couldn't carry a firearm. Like the people who get nailed in NYC for guns, I was naive enough to expect that pepper spray, being a purely defensive "weapon," was A-okay.

Then I happened to mention it in a discussion on a Jeep forum, and a Jeeper who is a (or was then) a police officer in MA chimed in and kindly informed me that I had committed a felony offense. I checked it out and, by golly, he was right.

The citizenry is NOT allowed to defend itself in Massachusetts. Interestingly, Massachusetts is one of the few states with a constitution that contains a RKBA clause but limits the RKBA only to the defense of the commonwealth.
langenc is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.07170 seconds with 10 queries