Uh...I bought a safe

siggygirl · September 2, 2010, 06:18 PM

And it's pretty big. Not with the snazzy lights. But big. So why am I posting? I'd like opinions on where to put it before it's delivered. In it is going to go my guns (pistols), documents and other stuff that needs to be locked up that Joe burglar might be interested in. Oh, got another gun too.

Sig P230 stainless steel. I've been pining over it since the gun show. Forgive me for not posting pics. My options for placement are upstairs home office, closet where I store things for emergency (won't say the z word), or a room in my fully finished and climate controlled basement. Opinions?

Huntergirl · September 2, 2010, 07:24 PM

I'd say it depends on what your subflooring is, if you have good sturdy floor or are living in an apt or condo. You want to be sure whatever is beneath your safe will hold it. Mine fit in a closet, just barely, on the main floor, only got a single level house, and that's where it has been since I bought my house. If its a good safe, I wouldn't worry much about burglers. But putting it somewhere out of the immediate eyeball sight of your front door would prolly be best. Given your choices, I'd opt for the basement, if its climate controlled.

siggygirl · September 2, 2010, 07:41 PM

Hi Huntergirl! The safe is 600 pounds and it's a Cannon. I'd have to measure the clearance on the basement. It's getting delivered but if I ever move, getting it back up out of there will suck. My concern with basement is flood. What happens to these things in water? I'm pretty sure my house can handle it anywhere. Office has visibility from the back but curtains are drawn. In a fire though, will this thing drop down a level?

10-96 · September 2, 2010, 08:16 PM

Safe... glasses... nuther Sig... Are you saving enough for ammo?

jk. Glad things is goin wondermus for ya!

fishluv · September 2, 2010, 08:50 PM

imo the only way is to bolt it to concrete

Doyle · September 2, 2010, 10:09 PM

Don't even think about putting it upstares on a joist-supported floor unless that floor has been specifically designed to carry the weight. You'll soon have floor joists that sag like an old lady without a bra.

siggygirl · September 2, 2010, 10:45 PM

So bolt it to concrete? Is it going to walk off? I'm not construction inclined, so when you mention "joist supported floor" my eyes glazed over. There's a first level and a finished basement. I know nothing of joists. No one concerned about the flood thing?

And yes, it was a good payday month. Got plenty of ammo too.

rtpzwms · September 2, 2010, 11:20 PM

Floor's in most home floors are on floor joists. The joists are the beams that run from outer wall to outer wall. If you went to your basement to an unfinished area and looked up you would see them. The problem with putting something as a heavy safe on them is that over time they will sag. They will most likely do it without a safe but a heavy object like that will make it worse. In many homes you will see a pattern of walls in the home that may begin in the basement as poles and on the next floor will be a "load bearing" wall. All these are doing is carrying the load from one floor or more down to the foundation.

All of that to say if you put a heavy object on a floor without consideration of weight. You may see a saggy floor. You can overcome this by displacing the load example put a large sheet of plywood under the safe that extends beyond the foot print of the safe. But this can look ugly! If you reinforce the floor from below you won't see the supports on the supported floor but you might from below. Again it can be ugly unless you can make it seem like part of a master plan. You could build a closet directly below the safe and use the closet walls to add support to the floor above. just as an example.

But the best idea would be to mount it to concrete in the basement or garage (this assumes and attached garage). If you put it in the garage build something around it to hide it. If you put it in the basement put it on a thick piece of plywood cut to the footprint of the safe. This would allow for some water to flood the basement without touching the bottom of the safe. Isolate the safe from the plywood with something like a rubber mat. The people that I bought my Cannon safe from mounted it for me. They didn't do much clean up after but that was very minor.

When its time to move the movers will take it up the steps from the basement. They may be cussing but they will do it.

BTW pulling a safe with a chain and a chevy is not hard work....

siggygirl · September 2, 2010, 11:24 PM

That was great. Got it. Thanks.

rtpzwms · September 2, 2010, 11:30 PM

guessing its a Cannon C23?

siggygirl · September 2, 2010, 11:56 PM

You know, it's big. And it's a Cannon. And I got it for half MSRP. And I'm learning not to give out details of my life.

10-96 · September 3, 2010, 03:21 AM

Quote:

And I got it for half MSRP

That's awesome- congratulations!

ZEBRARANGER · September 3, 2010, 07:59 AM

Congratulations on the safe. I put mine in my bedroom closet bolted down. I believe in keeping it out of sight and in range of me when I'm most vulnerable (while sleeping). Also keeping it in a small space makes it hard for a thief to use large tools to use to break into the safe with, such as sledge hammers, pry & breaker bars.

oneounceload · September 3, 2010, 09:54 AM

If it can fit in a closet, or at least a corner - all the better - bolt it to the floor AND to the walls. Mine sits on a small platform of 4x4. plywood and indoor/outdoor carpet - bolt it to that and then that to the floor would also work.

Depending on the weight and footprint, you may need to do some structural enhancements, even in a basement. If you put it down there, keep an eye on humidity and put it up on a platform in case of a water intrusion.

siggygirl · September 3, 2010, 10:36 AM

What's with all the bolting? Do people really walk out of your house with a 600 pound safe? Around here it's just random flat screen tv here and there and car theft. So they're gonna get past the alarm, into my house, and what? Strap the safe on their back? I live in the city. Not out in some secluded place. Really, no one who drives by would be thinking about how to get a safe out of my basement. And I'm not loading it with gold bricks. Just guns n such.

2Old2Change · September 3, 2010, 10:43 AM

My safe is quite large as well. In fact,it's big enough that a person could possibly get inside, and be locked in. I asked that specific question when we purchased it, and was told the doors are NOT air tight, and if that did happen, at least the person could breathe. Given this, I'm sure they will allow water to seep in as well.

siggygirl · September 3, 2010, 10:47 AM

So I get the platform, but how does bolting protect from flood?

Fox1 · September 3, 2010, 10:56 AM

Quote:

siggygirl
So I get the platform, but how does bolting protect from flood?

This may sound crazy, but the reason everyone is recommending that you bolt the safe down is because anybody who wants the contents badly enough (they have to REALLY want them) will haul the whole safe off and work on breaking into it at a safer location.

Generally, when thieves see a large safe, my guess is that they will just bypass it and move on to easier stuff. If they want it badly enough and it's not bolted down, two or three guys can get it out of the house and gone. Bolting it down just makes it even harder to do that.

Rifleman1776 · September 3, 2010, 11:10 AM

My safe is not big but it is what I could afford at the time. Our house is a hillside type and the safe is on the lower/basement level on concrete. It is bolted to the wall studs but not the floor.
Our house is semi-isolated. A burglar could drive around back, break in easily and spend the night, or weekend if we are not home, ransacking and no one would bother him. Truthfully, I do sleep better after buying the safe.
BTW, mine came from Grizzly, the tool people. Their stuff gives more bang for the buck than anyone else's, IMHO.

siggygirl · September 3, 2010, 02:32 PM

Update on the safe, and y'all can ridicule me if needed: Talked to the safe guy who's delivering and installing. He said in 25 years, they've never had a safe in the city hauled off. Given that I'm not a gun broker, a coke dealer or a jeweler, the only people who could possibly be interested is the random burglar/drug addict. They're not going to haul my safe off. If I bolt it down for this theoretically really intent burglar that hasn't existed so far in 25 years, I have to replace those hardwood panels that I ruined on the floor. Structurally, he said given the footprint of the safe, even if it's loaded with 200 pounds of stuff, there is no issue. He said if there is, I should move out of my house. Given that, he didn't think putting it on plywood would be useful for anything. He said he'd put it wherever I want, on whatever I want and bolt it to whatever makes me happy. He said if I took long trips with my house unattended or lived in a remote area he would advise something like bolting it down in the basement.

So I'm going the simple route. Anyone with architectural, disaster recovery or law enforcement experience care to comment?

Have any of you had had ACTUAL experience with your safe hauled off, had a flood or fire destroy what's inside, or some other kind of "potential" that we're talking about? Thanks

10-96 · September 3, 2010, 07:13 PM

Siggy, Just wondering...
Is there any chance that the safe purchase could knock off a buck or two in homeowners insurance rates? Anybody else ever ask?

siggygirl · September 3, 2010, 07:19 PM

10-96, another good question. I will be looking into that and many other insurance issues now that I have a firearms addiction. If a BG sues me for shooting him, how covered am I? Does it change if it's in my car, my house, or my office? Does it change if I have a business relationship with the patient? Those are all different kinds of insurance. Also, is my homeowner's enough to cover the costs of replacing my guns? So I'll get back to you on all that. I bet when I say "gun" lots of things will change. And I don't expect it will be for the better. Maybe I'll downgrade that to "firearm." Maybe "defensive tools of value." I'll get back to you.

Ricklin · September 3, 2010, 07:29 PM

Siggygirl,
You should know that your Beatles sig line has nothing to do with firearms. Excuse me if you know that already.

spanishjames · September 3, 2010, 07:43 PM

The thieves may not be able to carry the safe away, but they may be able to tip it over and position it in a way which makes it easier to pry open. By bolting it down in a corner, the safe is ....safer?

siggygirl · September 3, 2010, 08:10 PM

Thanks Ricklin. I borrowed it knowing it had another meaning. Turns out it's a perfect description for my relationship with guns.

With the dirt bath being the final cure.

I will put a bolt or two in that safe into my beautiful hardwood floor if 2 or more people living in a well populated city, who don't leave their homes unattended for more than a day, who aren't gun brokers, jewelers or drug dealers tell me that they've actually had someone break into or haul off their 600 pound safe of guns! Please tell me if this has actually happened.

September 2, 2010, 06:18 PM	#1
siggygirl Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2010 Posts: 236	Uh...I bought a safe And it's pretty big. Not with the snazzy lights. But big. So why am I posting? I'd like opinions on where to put it before it's delivered. In it is going to go my guns (pistols), documents and other stuff that needs to be locked up that Joe burglar might be interested in. Oh, got another gun too. Sig P230 stainless steel. I've been pining over it since the gun show. Forgive me for not posting pics. My options for placement are upstairs home office, closet where I store things for emergency (won't say the z word), or a room in my fully finished and climate controlled basement. Opinions?

September 2, 2010, 08:16 PM	#4
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,159	Safe... glasses... nuther Sig... Are you saving enough for ammo? jk. Glad things is goin wondermus for ya! __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

September 2, 2010, 08:50 PM	#5
fishluv Member Join Date: March 31, 2010 Posts: 74	imo the only way is to bolt it to concrete __________________ NRA Life Member

September 3, 2010, 07:13 PM	#21
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,159	Siggy, Just wondering... Is there any chance that the safe purchase could knock off a buck or two in homeowners insurance rates? Anybody else ever ask? __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

September 3, 2010, 07:29 PM	#23
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,011	The Beatles Siggygirl, You should know that your Beatles sig line has nothing to do with firearms. Excuse me if you know that already. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free

September 2, 2010, 07:24 PM	#2
Huntergirl Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Wyoming Posts: 907	I'd say it depends on what your subflooring is, if you have good sturdy floor or are living in an apt or condo. You want to be sure whatever is beneath your safe will hold it. Mine fit in a closet, just barely, on the main floor, only got a single level house, and that's where it has been since I bought my house. If its a good safe, I wouldn't worry much about burglers. But putting it somewhere out of the immediate eyeball sight of your front door would prolly be best. Given your choices, I'd opt for the basement, if its climate controlled.

September 2, 2010, 07:41 PM	#3
siggygirl Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2010 Posts: 236	Hi Huntergirl! The safe is 600 pounds and it's a Cannon. I'd have to measure the clearance on the basement. It's getting delivered but if I ever move, getting it back up out of there will suck. My concern with basement is flood. What happens to these things in water? I'm pretty sure my house can handle it anywhere. Office has visibility from the back but curtains are drawn. In a fire though, will this thing drop down a level?

September 2, 2010, 10:09 PM	#6
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	Don't even think about putting it upstares on a joist-supported floor unless that floor has been specifically designed to carry the weight. You'll soon have floor joists that sag like an old lady without a bra.

September 2, 2010, 10:45 PM	#7
siggygirl Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2010 Posts: 236	So bolt it to concrete? Is it going to walk off? I'm not construction inclined, so when you mention "joist supported floor" my eyes glazed over. There's a first level and a finished basement. I know nothing of joists. No one concerned about the flood thing? And yes, it was a good payday month. Got plenty of ammo too.

September 2, 2010, 11:20 PM	#8
rtpzwms Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2010 Location: OTS Posts: 1,035	Floor's in most home floors are on floor joists. The joists are the beams that run from outer wall to outer wall. If you went to your basement to an unfinished area and looked up you would see them. The problem with putting something as a heavy safe on them is that over time they will sag. They will most likely do it without a safe but a heavy object like that will make it worse. In many homes you will see a pattern of walls in the home that may begin in the basement as poles and on the next floor will be a "load bearing" wall. All these are doing is carrying the load from one floor or more down to the foundation. All of that to say if you put a heavy object on a floor without consideration of weight. You may see a saggy floor. You can overcome this by displacing the load example put a large sheet of plywood under the safe that extends beyond the foot print of the safe. But this can look ugly! If you reinforce the floor from below you won't see the supports on the supported floor but you might from below. Again it can be ugly unless you can make it seem like part of a master plan. You could build a closet directly below the safe and use the closet walls to add support to the floor above. just as an example. But the best idea would be to mount it to concrete in the basement or garage (this assumes and attached garage). If you put it in the garage build something around it to hide it. If you put it in the basement put it on a thick piece of plywood cut to the footprint of the safe. This would allow for some water to flood the basement without touching the bottom of the safe. Isolate the safe from the plywood with something like a rubber mat. The people that I bought my Cannon safe from mounted it for me. They didn't do much clean up after but that was very minor. When its time to move the movers will take it up the steps from the basement. They may be cussing but they will do it. BTW pulling a safe with a chain and a chevy is not hard work....

September 2, 2010, 11:24 PM	#9
siggygirl Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2010 Posts: 236	That was great. Got it. Thanks.

September 2, 2010, 11:30 PM	#10
rtpzwms Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2010 Location: OTS Posts: 1,035	guessing its a Cannon C23?

September 2, 2010, 11:56 PM	#11
siggygirl Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2010 Posts: 236	You know, it's big. And it's a Cannon. And I got it for half MSRP. And I'm learning not to give out details of my life.

September 3, 2010, 07:59 AM	#13
ZEBRARANGER Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 620	Congratulations on the safe. I put mine in my bedroom closet bolted down. I believe in keeping it out of sight and in range of me when I'm most vulnerable (while sleeping). Also keeping it in a small space makes it hard for a thief to use large tools to use to break into the safe with, such as sledge hammers, pry & breaker bars.

September 3, 2010, 09:54 AM	#14
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	If it can fit in a closet, or at least a corner - all the better - bolt it to the floor AND to the walls. Mine sits on a small platform of 4x4. plywood and indoor/outdoor carpet - bolt it to that and then that to the floor would also work. Depending on the weight and footprint, you may need to do some structural enhancements, even in a basement. If you put it down there, keep an eye on humidity and put it up on a platform in case of a water intrusion.

September 3, 2010, 10:36 AM	#15
siggygirl Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2010 Posts: 236	What's with all the bolting? Do people really walk out of your house with a 600 pound safe? Around here it's just random flat screen tv here and there and car theft. So they're gonna get past the alarm, into my house, and what? Strap the safe on their back? I live in the city. Not out in some secluded place. Really, no one who drives by would be thinking about how to get a safe out of my basement. And I'm not loading it with gold bricks. Just guns n such.

September 3, 2010, 10:43 AM	#16
2Old2Change Member Join Date: April 20, 2008 Posts: 61	My safe is quite large as well. In fact,it's big enough that a person could possibly get inside, and be locked in. I asked that specific question when we purchased it, and was told the doors are NOT air tight, and if that did happen, at least the person could breathe. Given this, I'm sure they will allow water to seep in as well.

September 3, 2010, 10:47 AM	#17
siggygirl Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2010 Posts: 236	So I get the platform, but how does bolting protect from flood?

September 3, 2010, 11:10 AM	#19
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	My safe is not big but it is what I could afford at the time. Our house is a hillside type and the safe is on the lower/basement level on concrete. It is bolted to the wall studs but not the floor. Our house is semi-isolated. A burglar could drive around back, break in easily and spend the night, or weekend if we are not home, ransacking and no one would bother him. Truthfully, I do sleep better after buying the safe. BTW, mine came from Grizzly, the tool people. Their stuff gives more bang for the buck than anyone else's, IMHO.

September 3, 2010, 02:32 PM	#20
siggygirl Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2010 Posts: 236	Update on the safe, and y'all can ridicule me if needed: Talked to the safe guy who's delivering and installing. He said in 25 years, they've never had a safe in the city hauled off. Given that I'm not a gun broker, a coke dealer or a jeweler, the only people who could possibly be interested is the random burglar/drug addict. They're not going to haul my safe off. If I bolt it down for this theoretically really intent burglar that hasn't existed so far in 25 years, I have to replace those hardwood panels that I ruined on the floor. Structurally, he said given the footprint of the safe, even if it's loaded with 200 pounds of stuff, there is no issue. He said if there is, I should move out of my house. Given that, he didn't think putting it on plywood would be useful for anything. He said he'd put it wherever I want, on whatever I want and bolt it to whatever makes me happy. He said if I took long trips with my house unattended or lived in a remote area he would advise something like bolting it down in the basement. So I'm going the simple route. Anyone with architectural, disaster recovery or law enforcement experience care to comment? Have any of you had had ACTUAL experience with your safe hauled off, had a flood or fire destroy what's inside, or some other kind of "potential" that we're talking about? Thanks

September 3, 2010, 07:19 PM	#22
siggygirl Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2010 Posts: 236	10-96, another good question. I will be looking into that and many other insurance issues now that I have a firearms addiction. If a BG sues me for shooting him, how covered am I? Does it change if it's in my car, my house, or my office? Does it change if I have a business relationship with the patient? Those are all different kinds of insurance. Also, is my homeowner's enough to cover the costs of replacing my guns? So I'll get back to you on all that. I bet when I say "gun" lots of things will change. And I don't expect it will be for the better. Maybe I'll downgrade that to "firearm." Maybe "defensive tools of value." I'll get back to you.

September 3, 2010, 07:43 PM	#24
spanishjames Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2010 Posts: 553	The thieves may not be able to carry the safe away, but they may be able to tip it over and position it in a way which makes it easier to pry open. By bolting it down in a corner, the safe is ....safer?

September 3, 2010, 08:10 PM	#25
siggygirl Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2010 Posts: 236	Thanks Ricklin. I borrowed it knowing it had another meaning. Turns out it's a perfect description for my relationship with guns. With the dirt bath being the final cure. I will put a bolt or two in that safe into my beautiful hardwood floor if 2 or more people living in a well populated city, who don't leave their homes unattended for more than a day, who aren't gun brokers, jewelers or drug dealers tell me that they've actually had someone break into or haul off their 600 pound safe of guns! Please tell me if this has actually happened.

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