Old german hunting rifle: don't know make/model

Wild Card · October 23, 2012, 04:56 PM

Need help identifying old german hunting rifle.
Double triggers, rear sight has a popup sight and front sight also has a circular popup sight.
A deer is engraved on the left side of the butt-stock and uses a spoon-style bolt that cocks-on-open.

The only markings I've been able to find are on the bolt:
what appears to be eight "0"'s and a "1" stamped on the back of the bolt,
and crown over "B" over crown over "U" near the bolt handle.

Any thoughts on it's value also appreciated.

Jim Watson · October 23, 2012, 05:30 PM

The type appears in the 1911 Alfa catalog as a Mauser.
But it is not an 1871, lacking the big bolt stop screw and washer.

Too bad there were so many European gun makers who did not put their names on their products. But the guild system did not encourage that.

Wild Card · October 23, 2012, 06:01 PM

Thanks for looking it up!
Any idea on it's value?

PetahW · October 24, 2012, 08:25 AM

Take it from an old Polock - It's a custom hunting/stalking rifle made on a Haenel/Mannlicher Sporting action.

I would check the underside of the bbl & action, under the wood, for a maker's mark & chambering information.

.

Sarge · October 24, 2012, 08:30 AM

Haenel would be my first guess too, Petah.

davery25 · October 24, 2012, 05:22 PM

whatever it is, it sure is pretty. where did you get it from?

Winchester_73 · October 24, 2012, 05:31 PM

It appears to be a Winchester model 70 from 52 or 53. Most likely in 30-06 caliber.

Just kidding.....what a neat sporting rifle that is. I really like it.

bedbugbilly · October 24, 2012, 05:44 PM

That's one beautiful rifle for sure! Any history on it? A "GI bring back" possibly? Over the years, I've seen a number of different hunting rifles - not identical to this but obviously well made German pieces . . . . there's one thing that can be said, . . . they knew how to make 'em!

It will be interesting to follow this thread and see what comes up on it . . . thanks for posting as it is sure a beautiful piece of work!

Eghad · October 24, 2012, 06:23 PM

That rifle is a work of Art. When I saw that Bolt handle the first thought was Mannlicher

Bear River · October 24, 2012, 08:59 PM

That is a fine old Austrian Mannlicher Schounauer. Value around $2,000 dollars. Go on Guns America auctions you will find many of these.

mapsjanhere · October 25, 2012, 09:00 AM

As it clearly has German proof marks, it's not Austrian. There should be more marks under the barrel.
As for value, while you see many of these "liberated" guns with asking prices of $2000, you rarely see sales at that range. If it is in a still available caliber you might see $1500 for it, if it's in some obsolete chambering like 9x57 my guess would around $1200.

Winchester_73 · October 25, 2012, 09:19 AM

I don't see any indication of the rifle being a mannlicher schoenauer

Wild Card · October 25, 2012, 09:26 AM

bedbugbilly: Unfortunately I don't know the history of this rifle other than I'm told it belonged to my great-grandfather who was from Germany. So I assume it is simply an old hunting rifle that he used.

Bear River: Your post appears to be the best match and I want to thank you for it!

mapsjanhere: Thank you also for posting. I could not find any other markings on the barrel. I also know what you mean with asking prices vs selling prices.

mapsjanhere · October 25, 2012, 11:28 AM

WC, did you take the barrel out of the stock? German proof marks for the barrel are typically on the underside just in front of the receiver, and on the left front side of the receiver itself (might or might not be covered by the stock).
It might also help to get a shot of the open action from the top to clearly identify the type. As far forward as the bolt handle is it looks to me like a civilian version of the 1871 type. As the barrel looks rather modern, there's also the possibility that it was rebarreled in the US (especially if there truly are no proof marks on the barrel).

Wild Card · October 25, 2012, 02:00 PM

As soon as I posted I realized the markings would be under the hidden part of the barrel - doh! I hesitate taking the gun apart for fear of mucking something up in trying to get it back together...

Anyway, here is a top-down view of open bolt:

mapsjanhere · October 25, 2012, 03:50 PM

That diagonal cut on the front ring of the receiver is pretty unique for the 1871 type, they quickly realized it doesn't do anything but add manufacturing cost. Is the rifle a single shot or does it have the tubular magazine of the 1871/84 series?

Wild Card · October 25, 2012, 04:42 PM

Single shot.
Also, slightly less than 18" barrel. After looking on the net it would seem to be 17.7" barrel length.

mapsjanhere · October 26, 2012, 08:54 AM

Now the end-all question to answer - what is it chambered in? Any idea?

Wild Card · October 26, 2012, 10:03 AM

I don't know what caliber.
I know an 8x57mm is slightly too big.

mapsjanhere · October 26, 2012, 11:09 AM

ok, that means it's definitely not the original 11x60R. 7x57 would be a good one to try, or run a Cerrosafe cast of the chamber.

Scorch · October 26, 2012, 12:04 PM

Definitely cast the chamber and get a reference book. I seriously doubt it would be chambered for 8X57.

PetahW · October 26, 2012, 12:15 PM

My money's on it being chambered for the 8.15x46R............

.

Jimro · October 29, 2012, 12:17 PM

If 8x57 is just a tad too big, I would try 8x56R. Slug the bore, if it comes back .329 that is probably it.

Jimro

Wild Card · October 30, 2012, 10:02 AM

The 8mm is too big around.
I think it could be 7mm of some sort.
But as mentioned previously, I should take it to a gunsmith and find out for sure what the caliber is.

I appreciate everyone's effort here - thanks to all.

October 23, 2012, 04:56 PM	#1
Wild Card Junior Member Join Date: October 23, 2012 Posts: 7	Old german hunting rifle: don't know make/model Need help identifying old german hunting rifle. Double triggers, rear sight has a popup sight and front sight also has a circular popup sight. A deer is engraved on the left side of the butt-stock and uses a spoon-style bolt that cocks-on-open. The only markings I've been able to find are on the bolt: what appears to be eight "0"'s and a "1" stamped on the back of the bolt, and crown over "B" over crown over "U" near the bolt handle. Any thoughts on it's value also appreciated.

October 24, 2012, 08:25 AM	#4
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	Take it from an old Polock - It's a custom hunting/stalking rifle made on a Haenel/Mannlicher Sporting action. I would check the underside of the bbl & action, under the wood, for a maker's mark & chambering information. . Last edited by PetahW; October 25, 2012 at 08:17 AM.

October 24, 2012, 08:30 AM	#5
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	Haenel would be my first guess too, Petah. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

October 24, 2012, 05:31 PM	#7
Winchester_73 Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 2,863	It appears to be a Winchester model 70 from 52 or 53. Most likely in 30-06 caliber. Just kidding.....what a neat sporting rifle that is. I really like it. __________________ Winchester 73, the TFL user that won the west

October 24, 2012, 05:44 PM	#8
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	That's one beautiful rifle for sure! Any history on it? A "GI bring back" possibly? Over the years, I've seen a number of different hunting rifles - not identical to this but obviously well made German pieces . . . . there's one thing that can be said, . . . they knew how to make 'em! It will be interesting to follow this thread and see what comes up on it . . . thanks for posting as it is sure a beautiful piece of work! __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

October 23, 2012, 05:30 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,531	The type appears in the 1911 Alfa catalog as a Mauser. But it is not an 1871, lacking the big bolt stop screw and washer. Too bad there were so many European gun makers who did not put their names on their products. But the guild system did not encourage that.

October 23, 2012, 06:01 PM	#3
Wild Card Junior Member Join Date: October 23, 2012 Posts: 7	Thanks for looking it up! Any idea on it's value?

October 24, 2012, 05:22 PM	#6
davery25 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 318	whatever it is, it sure is pretty. where did you get it from?

October 24, 2012, 06:23 PM	#9
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	That rifle is a work of Art. When I saw that Bolt handle the first thought was Mannlicher __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member Last edited by Eghad; October 24, 2012 at 06:33 PM.

October 24, 2012, 08:59 PM	#10
Bear River Member Join Date: May 20, 2010 Location: The Cowboy State Posts: 45	That is a fine old Austrian Mannlicher Schounauer. Value around $2,000 dollars. Go on Guns America auctions you will find many of these.

October 25, 2012, 09:00 AM	#11
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	As it clearly has German proof marks, it's not Austrian. There should be more marks under the barrel. As for value, while you see many of these "liberated" guns with asking prices of $2000, you rarely see sales at that range. If it is in a still available caliber you might see $1500 for it, if it's in some obsolete chambering like 9x57 my guess would around $1200. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

October 25, 2012, 09:19 AM	#12
Winchester_73 Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Pittsburgh PA Posts: 2,863	I don't see any indication of the rifle being a mannlicher schoenauer __________________ Winchester 73, the TFL user that won the west

October 25, 2012, 09:26 AM	#13
Wild Card Junior Member Join Date: October 23, 2012 Posts: 7	bedbugbilly: Unfortunately I don't know the history of this rifle other than I'm told it belonged to my great-grandfather who was from Germany. So I assume it is simply an old hunting rifle that he used. Bear River: Your post appears to be the best match and I want to thank you for it! mapsjanhere: Thank you also for posting. I could not find any other markings on the barrel. I also know what you mean with asking prices vs selling prices.

October 25, 2012, 11:28 AM	#14
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	WC, did you take the barrel out of the stock? German proof marks for the barrel are typically on the underside just in front of the receiver, and on the left front side of the receiver itself (might or might not be covered by the stock). It might also help to get a shot of the open action from the top to clearly identify the type. As far forward as the bolt handle is it looks to me like a civilian version of the 1871 type. As the barrel looks rather modern, there's also the possibility that it was rebarreled in the US (especially if there truly are no proof marks on the barrel). __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying. Last edited by mapsjanhere; October 25, 2012 at 11:35 AM.

October 25, 2012, 02:00 PM	#15
Wild Card Junior Member Join Date: October 23, 2012 Posts: 7	As soon as I posted I realized the markings would be under the hidden part of the barrel - doh! I hesitate taking the gun apart for fear of mucking something up in trying to get it back together... Anyway, here is a top-down view of open bolt:

October 25, 2012, 03:50 PM	#16
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	That diagonal cut on the front ring of the receiver is pretty unique for the 1871 type, they quickly realized it doesn't do anything but add manufacturing cost. Is the rifle a single shot or does it have the tubular magazine of the 1871/84 series? __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

October 25, 2012, 04:42 PM	#17
Wild Card Junior Member Join Date: October 23, 2012 Posts: 7	Single shot. Also, slightly less than 18" barrel. After looking on the net it would seem to be 17.7" barrel length.

October 26, 2012, 08:54 AM	#18
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Now the end-all question to answer - what is it chambered in? Any idea? __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

October 26, 2012, 10:03 AM	#19
Wild Card Junior Member Join Date: October 23, 2012 Posts: 7	I don't know what caliber. I know an 8x57mm is slightly too big.

October 26, 2012, 11:09 AM	#20
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	ok, that means it's definitely not the original 11x60R. 7x57 would be a good one to try, or run a Cerrosafe cast of the chamber. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

October 26, 2012, 12:04 PM	#21
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Definitely cast the chamber and get a reference book. I seriously doubt it would be chambered for 8X57. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

October 26, 2012, 12:15 PM	#22
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	My money's on it being chambered for the 8.15x46R............ .

October 29, 2012, 12:17 PM	#23
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	If 8x57 is just a tad too big, I would try 8x56R. Slug the bore, if it comes back .329 that is probably it. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

October 30, 2012, 10:02 AM	#24
Wild Card Junior Member Join Date: October 23, 2012 Posts: 7	The 8mm is too big around. I think it could be 7mm of some sort. But as mentioned previously, I should take it to a gunsmith and find out for sure what the caliber is. I appreciate everyone's effort here - thanks to all.

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